What's wrong with Serial
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It seems to me the glaring error with Elecraft's serial port
implementation is the ability to blow the I/O card out of the water if you use anything but the "special" K2 serial cable. They should have designed it so you could use an "off the shelf" serial cable. Way too much damage exposure. Really seems out of character to the rest of the rig options. 73, Paul _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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My take on this is that they wanted to have serial data AND the
Elecraft control bus in one cable. As long as you know not to use a standard cable, you are good to go. Just read and follow the directions. Stan Rife W5EWA Houston, TX K2 S/N 4216 -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 11:56 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] What's wrong with Serial It seems to me the glaring error with Elecraft's serial port implementation is the ability to blow the I/O card out of the water if you use anything but the "special" K2 serial cable. They should have designed it so you could use an "off the shelf" serial cable. Way too much damage exposure. Really seems out of character to the rest of the rig options. 73, Paul _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by k7nhb
Its a dual purpose port. I run two cables out of the port, one is
short pig tail that is strictly RS-232 and terminates in a female connector that can plug into a standard serial cable. The other is the control cable that I use to feed the transverters. Keeps the two uses separate and avoids connection problems. On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:55:39 -0700, Paul <[hidden email]> wrote: >It seems to me the glaring error with Elecraft's serial port >implementation is the ability to blow the I/O card out of the water >if you use anything but the "special" K2 serial cable. They should >have designed it so you could use an "off the shelf" serial cable. >Way too much damage exposure. Really seems out of character to the >rest of the rig options. > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by k7nhb
On Jun 19, 2006, at 12:55 AM, Paul wrote: > It seems to me the glaring error with Elecraft's serial port > implementation is the ability to blow the I/O card out of the water > if you use anything but the "special" K2 serial cable. They should > have designed it so you could use an "off the shelf" serial cable. > Way too much damage exposure. Really seems out of character to the > rest of the rig options. The basic issue is that the DB-9 connector on the K2 does double- duty. It serves both as a serial connection and as an AUXBUS extension for external devices, such as the KAT100 or the KRC2. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email] Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!" -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: What's wrong with Serial
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Bill, AA4LR, wrote:
The basic issue is that the DB-9 connector on the K2 does double- duty. It serves both as a serial connection and as an AUXBUS extension for external devices, such as the KAT100 or the KRC2. ----------------------------- I have run into this situation in many other places as well over the 30+ years I've worked with RS232 interfaces. People jump to a very wrong assumption that RS232 defines the connections at a given cable connector. That's like assuming that any Anderson PowerPole connector you see has 13.8 VDC on it. Bad assumption! RS232 is a signaling protocol, not a cable pinout scheme. So when the K2 manual refers to RS232 communications available it does NOT mean that the cable connections are similar to any other RS232 equipment. It only means that the lines in the cable dedicated to RS232 signaling use that protocol. As far as I know, there is NO such thing as a "RS232 cable". There may be standard cables that are commonly used for RS232 interfaces, but that's a coincidence, not part of the specification. We often digress here about how taking short-cuts in proper terminology leads innocent people into disaster. This is one of them. Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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> Bill, AA4LR, wrote: > > The basic issue is that the DB-9 connector on the K2 does > double-duty. True enough. Then Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > RS232 is a signaling protocol, not a cable pinout scheme. Correct. Then the principle designer, N6KR, wrote: We didn't have room for two connectors. The K2 is a very compact radio, leading to some packaging compromises. As it evolves, we improve things; e.g., the series resistor we added a couple of years ago to the control board to mitigate the most common serial I/O signal conflict. We appreciate everyone's input and patience on this and other topics. 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: What's wrong with Serial
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Am 19. Jun 2006, um 22:03:11 schrieb wayne burdick:
> > Correct. Then the principle designer, N6KR, wrote: > > We didn't have room for two connectors. Wayne, Sorry to have to disagree. The issue is that you use what is a commonly used connector for a commonly used purpose (ie, a db9 for serial communications) in a way that is non-standard so badly that it might cause equipment damage when someone mistakenly assumes its standard. If space were the issue, you could have opted for even smaller footprint connectors that are not _that_ widely used for serial communications like RJ45 (Cisco routers being a notable exception), or, probably even better - a VGA connector, which gives you lots more pins on the same footprint. Mario -- Mario Lorenz Internet: <[hidden email]> Ham Radio: DL5MLO@DB0ERF.#THR.DEU.EU "Your mouse has moved. Windows NT must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now ? [ OK ]" _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: What's wrong with Serial
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I have to side with Mario on this one - while I hate computers and
love the idea of 'em getting fried, it can still be damned inconvenient. I know there's an RS-232 connection that uses a little connector that looks like the old one on the IBM PS/2 mouse, little round thing, could that be used? 73 de Alex NS6Y On Jun 20, 2006, at 12:53 AM, Mario Lorenz wrote: > Am 19. Jun 2006, um 22:03:11 schrieb wayne burdick: >> >> Correct. Then the principle designer, N6KR, wrote: >> >> We didn't have room for two connectors. > > Wayne, > > Sorry to have to disagree. The issue is that you use what is > a commonly used connector for a commonly used purpose (ie, a db9 for > serial communications) in a way that is non-standard so badly that > it might cause equipment damage when someone mistakenly assumes its > standard. > > If space were the issue, you could have opted for even smaller > footprint > connectors that are not _that_ widely used for serial communications > like RJ45 (Cisco routers being a notable exception), or, probably even > better - a VGA connector, which gives you lots more pins on the same > footprint. > > Mario Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Matt Osborn
At least Elecraft's does a duel purpose, there are hardware/ software
vendors who reverse the wiring in them just because they can and their special cable costs a bunch....... Not going to name names but no one in ham radio community, for those who know something of CNC machines I am sure you can guess -- 73 Chuck AA8VS "If your CW transmission becomes three S bars lower that is lower case letters? ... ever wonder" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Osborn" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] What's wrong with Serial Its a dual purpose port. I run two cables out of the port, one is short pig tail that is strictly RS-232 and terminates in a female connector that can plug into a standard serial cable. The other is the control cable that I use to feed the transverters. Keeps the two uses separate and avoids connection problems. On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:55:39 -0700, Paul <[hidden email]> wrote: >It seems to me the glaring error with Elecraft's serial port >implementation is the ability to blow the I/O card out of the water >if you use anything but the "special" K2 serial cable. They should >have designed it so you could use an "off the shelf" serial cable. >Way too much damage exposure. Really seems out of character to the >rest of the rig options. > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2
At 10:53 PM 6/19/2006, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote...
>years I've worked with RS232 interfaces. People jump to a very wrong >assumption that RS232 defines the connections at a given cable connector... >RS232 is a signaling protocol, not a cable pinout scheme. RS-232 and it's successors are interface standards, and as such define electrical signal, logical function and physical connection standards. In fact, the one thing it doesn't define is an upper layer signaling protocol - which is why you must also know whether you're dealing with sync/async and the specific serial encoding to be used. It predates the modern ISO layered architecture, but would fit best as a Physical Layer (Layer 1) standard. RS-232 has always specified a cable pinout; originally on an unspecified 25 pin connector. Later, in RS-232C, it specified the common Cannon DB-25 connector. RS-232 as such is obsolete, and in informal use is normally taken to refer to the current standard, ANSI/EIA/TIA-723-1998 "High Speed 232 Type DTE/DCE Interface," which replaced EIA/TIA-232. The standard says the DE-9 interface shall be referred to as "ANSI/EIA/TIA-723 Alt B." In addition to the regular DB-25, there is also a 26 pin "Alt A." _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Folks,
Good information, but while the "ANSI/EIA/TIA-723 Alt B." standard does specify the DE-9 connector, please keep in mind that the converse is NOT true. Having a DE-9 connector does NOT infer that it is an RS-232 connector, or even a serial connector. The connector on the K2 is clearly labeled "AUX I/O" and that labeling indicates that it has Auxiliary Input and Output lines - which should be an indication connecting to that point that the manual must be consulted to determine the pinout and signal usage - this is true for ANY similar connector, even the DB-25 (which is also used in the PC as a parallel port. If the connector conformed to any standard, be that RS-232 or ANSI/EIA/TIA-723 Alt B, or any other, it would likely be proudly labeled as such rather than "AUX I/O". Even the early IBM PCs (which were one of the first users of the DE-9 for a serial port) did not call them RS-232 ports, they were referred to simply as serial ports, specifically because they did not comply with the RS-232C standard (which was the current level at that time). They did use similar line names, but electrically and physically, those PC serial ports did not comply completely with the standard - but they did work with RS-232 level signals in most cases, while in other cases they caused headaches, particularly with longer line lengths, but I digress. Protect your K2 - the signals from the K2 should not hurt a proper RS-232 level receiver (in your computer), but applying the RS-232 switching voltages to your K2 will likely cause the rapid demise of the devices connected to the AUXBUS line inside your K2 and perhaps other fatalities can result too. Use the Elecraft specified pinout and purpose for any cable ocnnected to the K2 AUX I/O. 73, Don W3FPR > -----Original Message----- > RS-232 and it's successors are interface standards, and as such > define electrical signal, logical function and physical > connection standards. In fact, the one thing it doesn't define is > an upper layer signaling protocol - which is why you must also > know whether you're dealing with sync/async and the specific > serial encoding to be used. It predates the modern ISO layered > architecture, but would fit best as a Physical Layer (Layer 1) standard. > > RS-232 has always specified a cable pinout; originally on an > unspecified 25 pin connector. Later, in RS-232C, it specified the > common Cannon DB-25 connector. > > RS-232 as such is obsolete, and in informal use is normally taken > to refer to the current standard, ANSI/EIA/TIA-723-1998 "High > Speed 232 Type DTE/DCE Interface," which replaced EIA/TIA-232. > The standard says the DE-9 interface shall be referred to as > "ANSI/EIA/TIA-723 Alt B." In addition to the regular DB-25, there > is also a 26 pin "Alt A." > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: What's wrong with Serial
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
On Jun 20, 2006, at 1:03 AM, wayne burdick wrote: > Correct. Then the principle designer, N6KR, wrote: > > We didn't have room for two connectors. Surely two Mini-DIN 6s or 8s would have fit. Of course, few people would have cables to fit a Mini-DIN 8 unless they had some unused Mac serial cables, or they might try to plug a mouse into a Mini-DIN 6.... Pre-fab cables work well with Mini-DINs. Trying to make cables for these connectors is a nightmare. Worse than the 8-pin mic connectors transceivers use these days.... Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email] Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!" -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: What's wrong with Serial
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In reply to this post by Mike S-8
Mike W8UR wrote:
RS-232 has always specified a cable pinout; originally on an unspecified 25 pin connector. ----------------------------------- Okay, you made me go look. When I first encountered the RS-232 interface, IBM had not yet built the first "PC". Bob, W7AVK kindly forwarded to me a URL containing the info: http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_RS232.html#b Or http://tinyurl.com/zgnvp So the specification does contain a connector pinout for DB-9 and DB-25 connectors. That makes it all the more important to heed Don Wilhelm's observation: all DB-9's or DB-25 connectors do not carry RS-232 signals as described in the specification. One might assume a DB-9 or DB-25 does carry RS-232 signals with some assurance if it says "RS-232" next to the connector, but not when it says "AUX I/O" or anything else next to it. Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: What's wrong with Serial
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In reply to this post by Bill Coleman-2
This discussion is boring:
The radio is as the radio is- If you don't like the way your radio is, you can change the connectors to whatever you want, with a separate Murphy-proof connector for the AUX bus. It would only take some trace cutting and wiring, as well as finding the space for another connector. 73, doug From: Bill Coleman <[hidden email]> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 23:32:03 -0400 On Jun 20, 2006, at 1:03 AM, wayne burdick wrote: > Correct. Then the principle designer, N6KR, wrote: > > We didn't have room for two connectors. Surely two Mini-DIN 6s or 8s would have fit. Of course, few people would have cables to fit a Mini-DIN 8 unless they had some unused Mac serial cables, or they might try to plug a mouse into a Mini-DIN 6.... Pre-fab cables work well with Mini-DINs. Trying to make cables for these connectors is a nightmare. Worse than the 8-pin mic connectors transceivers use these days.... _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: What's wrong with Serial
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Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:
> This discussion is boring: Indeed. > The radio is as the radio is- If you don't like the way your radio is, > you can change the connectors to whatever you want, with a separate > Murphy-proof connector for the AUX bus. It would only take some trace > cutting and wiring, as well as finding the space for another > connector. Simplest fix: Bend pin 4 in the male connector back and forth until it snaps, and stuff a toothpick in hole 4 of the female connector. Your special Elecraft cable will still fit, "normal" rs232 cables cannot accidentally be plugged in - at least not easily. Pin 4 is not used by any Elecraft accessories - they seem to have decided that it was better to use AUXBUS rather than using the ALC line for external power metering. -- "Nosey" Nick Waterman, G7RZQ, K2 #5209. use Std::Disclaimer; [hidden email] Where there's a will, I want to be in it. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2
The current evolution of the RS-232 spec also now contains a pinout
for an RJ-45 8-pin modular connector. This connector is becoming very popular in the telecom industry for serial port connections because of its size. RJ-45s allow much high panel density that DE9 connectors, even though they have the problem of being the same as those used for ethernet connections. On Jun 20, 2006, at 9:18 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > Mike W8UR wrote: > > RS-232 has always specified a cable pinout; originally on an > unspecified 25 > pin connector. > > ----------------------------------- > > Okay, you made me go look. When I first encountered the RS-232 > interface, > IBM had not yet built the first "PC". > > Bob, W7AVK kindly forwarded to me a URL containing the info: > > http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_RS232.html#b > > Or > > http://tinyurl.com/zgnvp > > So the specification does contain a connector pinout for DB-9 and > DB-25 > connectors. > > That makes it all the more important to heed Don Wilhelm's > observation: all > DB-9's or DB-25 connectors do not carry RS-232 signals as described > in the > specification. One might assume a DB-9 or DB-25 does carry RS-232 > signals > with some assurance if it says "RS-232" next to the connector, but > not when > it says "AUX I/O" or anything else next to it. > > Ron AC7AC > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com - Jack Brindle, W6FB ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------- _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: What's wrong with Serial
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In reply to this post by Bill Coleman-2
Mini-Dins are simply not reliable. The connectors break all-too
easily, mostly due to the pins bending if the connectors are not aligned just right. We intentionally moved away from them at Apple because of this problem. There really isn't a good connector solution at present. If you look at what is available in a semi-rugged form factor, we are limited to D-shells, DINs (not mini-Dins), RJs, and not much else. The RJs are not shielded, so we end up duplicating connectors out of necessity. I think Wayne made a good choice with the connector, and it is up to us to realize that it is not standard RS-232 and just deal with it. Of course, few, if any, other ham rigs have "standard" RS-232 connectors on their rear apron... On Jun 20, 2006, at 8:32 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: > > On Jun 20, 2006, at 1:03 AM, wayne burdick wrote: > >> Correct. Then the principle designer, N6KR, wrote: >> >> We didn't have room for two connectors. > > Surely two Mini-DIN 6s or 8s would have fit. Of course, few people > would have cables to fit a Mini-DIN 8 unless they had some unused > Mac serial cables, or they might try to plug a mouse into a Mini- > DIN 6.... > > Pre-fab cables work well with Mini-DINs. Trying to make cables for > these connectors is a nightmare. Worse than the 8-pin mic > connectors transceivers use these days.... > > > Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email] > Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!" > -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 - Jack Brindle, W6FB ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------- _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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IMHO the D connector is the best choice for reliability, short of the
Bendix circular type used on aircraft equipment, etc. (much too large and expensive). The worst connector I have seen on ham gear was the one used for the microphone on the Yaesu FT-730. I tried to repair a mike cable with a broken wire but applying a (small) soldering iron to one of the pins caused the insulator to soften and the pins moved. The radio has been in my junk box ever since. Bob, N7XY On Jun 21, 2006, at 9:49 AM, Jack Brindle wrote: > Mini-Dins are simply not reliable. The connectors break all-too > easily, mostly due to the pins bending if the connectors are not > aligned just right. We intentionally moved away from them at Apple > because of this problem. > > There really isn't a good connector solution at present. If you > look at what is available in a semi-rugged form factor, we are > limited to D-shells, DINs (not mini-Dins), RJs, and not much else. > The RJs are not shielded, so we end up duplicating connectors out > of necessity. I think Wayne made a good choice with the connector, > and it is up to us to realize that it is not standard RS-232 and > just deal with it. Of course, few, if any, other ham rigs have > "standard" RS-232 connectors on their rear apron... > > On Jun 20, 2006, at 8:32 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: > >> >> On Jun 20, 2006, at 1:03 AM, wayne burdick wrote: >> >>> Correct. Then the principle designer, N6KR, wrote: >>> >>> We didn't have room for two connectors. >> >> Surely two Mini-DIN 6s or 8s would have fit. Of course, few people >> would have cables to fit a Mini-DIN 8 unless they had some unused >> Mac serial cables, or they might try to plug a mouse into a Mini- >> DIN 6.... >> >> Pre-fab cables work well with Mini-DINs. Trying to make cables for >> these connectors is a nightmare. Worse than the 8-pin mic >> connectors transceivers use these days.... >> >> >> Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email] >> Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!" >> -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 > > - Jack Brindle, W6FB > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: What's wrong with Serial
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In reply to this post by k7nhb
The latest copy of the spec I had was EIA-232-F. It did not specify the 8 pin modular connector. EIA-561 covers the 8 position modular plug when using it in an EIA-232 compatible system. RJ-45 (Registered Jack) is defined in FCC part 68 and is a whole other ball of wax!
Dave AA3EE >From: Jack Brindle <[hidden email]> >Date: Wed Jun 21 11:43:38 CDT 2006 >To: Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> >Cc: [hidden email] >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] What's wrong with Serial >The current evolution of the RS-232 spec also now contains a pinout >for an RJ-45 8-pin modular connector. This connector is becoming very >popular in the telecom industry for serial port connections because >of its size. RJ-45s allow much high panel density that DE9 >connectors, even though they have the problem of being the same as >those used for ethernet connections. > > >On Jun 20, 2006, at 9:18 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > >> Mike W8UR wrote: >> >> RS-232 has always specified a cable pinout; originally on an >> unspecified 25 >> pin connector. >> >> ----------------------------------- >> >> Okay, you made me go look. When I first encountered the RS-232 >> interface, >> IBM had not yet built the first "PC". >> >> Bob, W7AVK kindly forwarded to me a URL containing the info: >> >> http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_RS232.html#b >> >> Or >> >> http://tinyurl.com/zgnvp >> >> So the specification does contain a connector pinout for DB-9 and >> DB-25 >> connectors. >> >> That makes it all the more important to heed Don Wilhelm's >> observation: all >> DB-9's or DB-25 connectors do not carry RS-232 signals as described >> in the >> specification. One might assume a DB-9 or DB-25 does carry RS-232 >> signals >> with some assurance if it says "RS-232" next to the connector, but >> not when >> it says "AUX I/O" or anything else next to it. >> >> Ron AC7AC >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > >- Jack Brindle, W6FB >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >--------------------- > > >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: What's wrong with Serial
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In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2
On Monday 19 June 2006 22:53, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> As far as I know, there is NO such thing as a "RS232 cable". My several Amigas have a 25 pin 'serial' port. There is also +/- 9v AC on a couple of pins to power external equipment. It's welcome: I designed my own midi interface using +9 AC to power it. An important point about RS-232, COM ports, /dev/cuad0, /dev/ttyS0 .. whatever, is that the serial data timing can be very accurately known: the time taken for a micro to load to the data registers and send the data can be used in real time control. At 115200 bits per second, a byte takes less than 100 microseconds to propagate. Midi is such a real time control and it uses the very modest speed, by today's standard, 31250 bps. USB can't guarantee such timing accuracy for control purposes - witness the mess with USB midi equipment that had 80 milliseconds delay before hearing a sound - fine if a printer doesn't start in that time but completely useless for real time music multitracking. A klutz was required, such as Steinberg's ASIO. Even so, USB still can't compete with a 23 year old standard at 31250 bps for real time midi. There is no USB on my Kurzweil PC2R. Present are midi in, out and thru, analog and 24 bit digital sound out: it's professional equipment. There's nothing wrong with Serial except that most consumers don't need it, and unfortunately, those who could use it are finding it scarce on modern equipment due to market forces. Ian, G4ICV, AB2GR, K2 #4962 -- _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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