Which Heil Prosets should we carry?

[Alan Bloom]

I notice it's a bit cheaper as well.

What kind of connector(s) does it use?  I assume the reason they don't
mention that on their web page is that it is intended for airplanes
which use a standard connection, but I don't know what it is.

Al N1AL


On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 08:15, [hidden email] wrote:

> >> Since the K3 is also compatible with the other Heil Proset boom mic
> >> headsets that use the HC4 and HC5 elements, which model does everyone
> >> like? Any favorite models?
>
> To tell you the truth, I do not like the Heil headsets, because the  
> ear phones have the poor isolation of surrounding noise. The Pilot  
> PA11-60 headset is very popular here, and is my headset of choice.  
> AFAIK, the US version is the PA-1161T.
>
> <http://www.pilot-europe.com/products/item.php?id=68>
> <http://www.pilot-usa.com/pa1161a.htm>
>
> vy 73 de toby
>
> PS: I have nothing to do with the company but I like the headset...
>
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[dj7mgq]

Hi Al,

 > What kind of connector(s) does it use?  I assume the reason they don't
 > mention that on their web page is that it is intended for airplanes
 > which use a standard connection, but I don't know what it is.

As I already told Doug:

We use the "plain vanilla" version of the PA11-60.

RX is a standard stereo phone jack; you can plug it directly into the
front panel of the K3, TS-850, etc. The microphone connector is a "hard
to find" jack used in airplanes. We always replace the microphone jack
with something standard.

The microphone interfacing for the rig is also important, an example for
TS-850 can be found here:
<http://www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/misc_projects/ts850-micro.pdf>

(sorry about the German, but you should get the general idea).

vy 73 de toby

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[dave.wilburn]

A big hunk of the target market for the K3 is contest stations.  Many
contest stations are making the move to the noise reduction headsets.  I
don't believe most hams would pay extra for it, and a couple of months
ago I likely would not have either.  But now that my radios are sharing
space with the kids and their XBOX, I am having to re-think this.
-  

David Wilburn
[hidden email]
K4DGW
K2 S/N 5982


On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 10:41 -0800, B. Scott Andersen wrote:

> I own the following Heil models:
> * Pro Set Plus
> * Pro Set QuietPhone
> * Traveler Dual Side
>
> I used to also own the Traveler Single Side phones but
> sold them as they were very uncomfortable.
>
> If you were to carry two models, I would suggest the
> 1. Traveler Dual Side -- for portable operator use, and
> 2. Pro Set QuietPhone -- for serious fixed operation
>
> I also like my Pro Set Plus unit but find the noise canceling
> feature of the QuietPhone very helpful both at home and on
> DXpeditions. Also, the QuietPhone is more comfortable on
> the head and ears during those long hours. For a few dollars
> more you get a much better feeling headset, with noise
> cancellation, and a good mic.
>
> I first used one of these QuietPhones at K1TTT's station
> for the ARRL DX contest. Within 5 minutes I knew I had
> to order a set for myself. They were that much better than
> my Pro Set Plus (IMHO).
>
> For those times you don't want to carry the big heavy headsets
> the Traveler Dual Side is my choice. They are comfortable when
> working outside in the heat and perform well (both on the ears
> and at the mic).
>
> There will not likely be any consensus here (on anything!), but
> my vote would be those two "higher-end" of the Heil offerings.
>
> My 2-cents. Refunds upon request.
>
> -- Scott (NE1RD)

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[N5GE]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:49:25 -0800, you wrote:

>Since the K3 is also compatible with the other Heil Proset boom mic
>headsets that use the HC4 and HC5 elements, which model does everyone
>like? Any favorite models?
>
>Its not practical for us to carry them all, but I'd like to add at least
>one or two of the more popular versions to our product list.
>
>73, Eric  WA6HHQ
[snip]

I have had the Heil Pro-Set Plus for several years.  I was pleased to read in
the owners manual that when my third wave K3 arrives it will be a plug 'n play
mic.  I also really like having the key, headphone and mic connections on the
rear of the rig.  Thanks for doing that!

My feeling is that offering the Heil Pro-Set versions with the mono 1/8" plug
will be great.

Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety.

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

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[David Cutter]

I'm surprised that folks are going to the trouble and cost of noise
reduction headsets, by this I understand they mean ANR ie active noise
reduction.  Most of the noise reduction in the upper part of the audio band
comes from the headphone enclosure (shell) and it's only in the lower audio
band that ANR is effective.  For domestic/loud voice conditions passive ear
protection (ie the headphone shell) *should* be enough.  I would like to try
this for myself but I would like to hear from anyone who could compare a
sturdy conventional headset with ANR types in this respect.

I tried a pair of KOSS 4AA headphones which had very high isolation as good
as ear protectors but I couldn't wear them for more than an hour.

For me the biggest issue is comfort after several hours of operating and it
is essential for the ear muff to sit on the skull not on the outer ear
(pinna).  Then it is the seal to the skull that needs to be maintaned; it is
even adversely affected by spectacle frames breaking the seal and for some
applications thick hair and beard, would you believe? probably not an issue
here.

Shouting into the mic might also mean the side tone could be adjusted
differently.  The higher the attenuation of your own voice back into your
ear becomes, the more the brain tells you to raise your voice so you can
hear yourself.  The telephone people worked this out 100 years ago.

If everyone in a contest room used *normal* voice and could hear their own
side tone at a good level, then their mic gains could be set to *normal*
which would then mean their mics would not pick up their neighbour's voice,
(compression is also a big factor in this).

The voices of the contest group need to be optimised as a system not just a
collection of separate operators.  There are a lot of factors to consider,
it's not as simple as it sounds.

So, I wonder if the choice of the ANR Bose headsets was more the comfort and
improved passive protection that this new type of headset provided rather
than the expensive ANR feature.

I agree that multi contest conditions and kids with noisey toys (including
us?) test operators in ways not normally associated with radio.

David
G3UNA

>A big hunk of the target market for the K3 is contest stations.  Many
> contest stations are making the move to the noise reduction headsets.  I
> don't believe most hams would pay extra for it, and a couple of months
> ago I likely would not have either.  But now that my radios are sharing
> space with the kids and their XBOX, I am having to re-think this.
> -
>
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[w7aqk]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Childers, N5GE" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Which Heil Prosets should we carry?

Well, since everyone else seems to be putting their oar in for what they
really want, I will to.  I use headset/mic combos most of the time if I
operate SSB (not very often though).  But it would be nice to not have to
use the headphones for a comfortable QSO.  Problem is, a desk mike just adds
to the clutter on my desk.  That premium space is already taken up by a
laptop (or keyboard), my paddle, my pencil/pen, paper, and most importantly
my coffee cup!  Seriously, am I the only one who has to shift things around
in front of me while operating?  And wouldn't a desk mike just add to the
problem?

I would like to see some kind of gooseneck type microphone (perhaps with the
"IC" element) that would easily attach and detach from the K3, or a K2.
Maybe some sort of brace or bracket that would clamp across the top of the
K3, and had some sort of quick release.  It would have to be padded so as to
not mar the K3.  The gooseneck would lock into some kind of clamp on top of
the bracket, and be a quick release type also.  The gooseneck should
probably be approx. 24 to 30 inches or so long (maybe more) so it reaches
from the rig to, or near,  the front edge of your desk so you can easily
speak into it.  You could further adjust the distance by where you place the
bracket on the K3--either towards the front, or more towards the rear.  Then
you could swing the microphone into position or out of the way, but it
wouldn't add to the clutter on the desk in front of you.

Tall order, right?  Yeah, I know--I'm dreaming.  And it really doesn't
respond very directly to Eric's question.  But I'd buy something like this
if it were available.  Maybe it already is somewhere.  I don't keep up very
well with microphone stuff.

Dave W7AQK

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[Dan Barker]

Interesting thot. I wonder if the lack of side tone is partially responsible
for many cell phone users to raise their voices. I don't recall hearing most
folks talk so loudly into desk phones.

Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456

-----Original Message-----
David Cutter, December 29, 2007 7:07 AM

<snip>
Shouting into the mic might also mean the side tone could be adjusted
differently.  The higher the attenuation of your own voice back into your
ear becomes, the more the brain tells you to raise your voice so you can
hear yourself.  The telephone people worked this out 100 years ago.
</snip>
David
G3UNA

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[M0XDF]

What about a Heil with a desk mounted boom - the boom can mount direct to
the desk or be clamped on, at the back and 'lean over'


On 29/12/07 12:49, "David Yarnes" <[hidden email]> sent:

> I would like to see some kind of gooseneck type microphone (perhaps with the
> "IC" element) that would easily attach and detach from the K3, or a K2.
> Maybe some sort of brace or bracket that would clamp across the top of the
> K3, and had some sort of quick release.  It would have to be padded so as to
> not mar the K3.  The gooseneck would lock into some kind of clamp on top of
> the bracket, and be a quick release type also.  The gooseneck should
> probably be approx. 24 to 30 inches or so long (maybe more) so it reaches
> from the rig to, or near,  the front edge of your desk so you can easily
> speak into it.  You could further adjust the distance by where you place the
> bracket on the K3--either towards the front, or more towards the rear.  Then
> you could swing the microphone into position or out of the way, but it
> wouldn't add to the clutter on the desk in front of you.

--
Always remember, half the people in the world are above average
intelligence!


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[w7aqk]

Yes, you are right that  it could be done that way, and I have thought about
that.  But I do appreciate the suggestion.  However, I would really like
something that is more portable and could  travel with the K3.  I consider
the K3 to be a very portable radio, and I intend to take it with me whenever
practical.  I am thinking about something smaller and lighter than some sort
of desk attachment arrangement which would probably have a heavier gooseneck
as well.  Kenwood, I think, makes a small desk microphone with a small
diameter gooseneck and small cartridge housing.  I would like something
along that line if possible--small, lightweight, and easily transported.
Being able to attach it somehow to the rig seemed a good idea to me as it
could eliminate the need for a base or heavy table clamp arrangement.

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]>
To: "David Yarnes" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Which Heil Prosets should we carry?

> What about a Heil with a desk mounted boom - the boom can mount direct to
> the desk or be clamped on, at the back and 'lean over'
>
>
> On 29/12/07 12:49, "David Yarnes" <[hidden email]> sent:
>
>> I would like to see some kind of gooseneck type microphone (perhaps with
>> the
>> "IC" element) that would easily attach and detach from the K3, or a K2.
>> Maybe some sort of brace or bracket that would clamp across the top of
>> the
>> K3, and had some sort of quick release.  It would have to be padded so as
>> to
>> not mar the K3.  The gooseneck would lock into some kind of clamp on top
>> of
>> the bracket, and be a quick release type also.  The gooseneck should
>> probably be approx. 24 to 30 inches or so long (maybe more) so it reaches
>> from the rig to, or near,  the front edge of your desk so you can easily
>> speak into it.  You could further adjust the distance by where you place
>> the
>> bracket on the K3--either towards the front, or more towards the rear.
>> Then
>> you could swing the microphone into position or out of the way, but it
>> wouldn't add to the clutter on the desk in front of you.
>
> --
> Always remember, half the people in the world are above average
> intelligence!
>
>
>

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[N7US]

Why carry any microphones (or keys, for that matter)?  Why act as a retailer
for any standard accessories that can be purchased from dealers or the
manufacturer?  It seems a distraction to me.

Jim N7US
 
 

-----Original Message-----


Since the K3 is also compatible with the other Heil Proset boom mic
headsets that use the HC4 and HC5 elements, which model does everyone
like? Any favorite models?

Its not practical for us to carry them all, but I'd like to add at least
one or two of the more popular versions to our product list.

73, Eric  WA6HHQ




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[Ken Kopp]

"One stop shopping", as in WalMart.
All your needs (wants?) under one roof.  
One phone call.
One credit card bill.
Elecraft  "logo'ed" items, as with the HexKey.  
Known to "work" with Elecraft products, W/O "adaptations".
Support for our favorite company.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP

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[N2EY]

In a message dated 12/29/07 10:32:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, [hidden email]
writes:


> Why carry any microphones (or keys, for that matter)?  Why act as a
> retailer
> for any standard accessories that can be purchased from dealers or the
> manufacturer?

Two reasons:

1) You can make one big order rather than a couple of smaller orders.

2) You are guaranteed that the unit you buy will work with your Elecraft rig.


73 de Jim, N2EY


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[Kurt Pawlikowski]

Jim,

    I can think of a few good reasons, the first is "one stop shopping."
That is, convenience. The second is, if the radio manufacture caries a
compatible product, you are assured that it will be configured correctly
and have the same general quality and performance levels. And while yes,
you could go direct to the manufacture, it's sometimes nice to have that
little funky "E" on an OEM version of the same thing. Every time you
raise a Icon, Yaesu, Kenwood or other "branded" mike to use it, the one
thing you'll be reminded of is the manufacturer. I would expect that
none of them make their own elements. I think the advertising value of
an OEM microphone alone is worth the trouble.

    ... IMNSHO (In My Not So Humble Opinion)...

    Regards,

    kurtt

    Kurt Pawlikowski, AKA WB9FMC
    The Pinrod Corporation
    [hidden email]
    [phone]
    http://pinrod.com

Jim McDonald wrote:

> Why carry any microphones (or keys, for that matter)?  Why act as a retailer
> for any standard accessories that can be purchased from dealers or the
> manufacturer?  It seems a distraction to me.
>
> Jim N7US
>  
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Since the K3 is also compatible with the other Heil Proset boom mic
> headsets that use the HC4 and HC5 elements, which model does everyone
> like? Any favorite models?
>
> Its not practical for us to carry them all, but I'd like to add at least
> one or two of the more popular versions to our product list.
>
> 73, Eric  WA6HHQ
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>  

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[Chris Kantarjiev K6DBG]

>> Shouting into the mic might also mean the side tone could be adjusted
>> differently.  The higher the attenuation of your own voice back into your
>> ear becomes, the more the brain tells you to raise your voice so you can
>> hear yourself.  The telephone people worked this out 100 years ago.

Indeed. Unfortunately, some rigs don't provide sidetone (like the K2/KSB2!)

> Interesting thot. I wonder if the lack of side tone is partially responsible
> for many cell phone users to raise their voices. I don't recall hearing most
> folks talk so loudly into desk phones.

You're not the first to wonder this ... it's certainly a contributing
factor. I don't know if anyone has done an actual study...

73 de chris K6DBG
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[Thom LaCosta]

At 12:38 PM 12/29/2007, Ken wrote:
>"One stop shopping", as in WalMart. All your needs (wants?) under one roof.
>One phone call.
>One credit card bill. Elecraft  "logo'ed" items, as with the HexKey.
>Known to "work" with Elecraft products, W/O "adaptations".
>Support for our favorite company.

Does Elecraft offer a power supply? Will I be struck by lightning if
I use my spare TR7 supply
to power the K3?

Thom  

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[AJSOENKE]

In a message dated 12/29/2007 1:58:22 A.M.  Pacific Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:
My "Baptism of  Fire" was with MD4K on the IOM in CQWW MM .
Thirty seconds after the contest  started I was in shock..Five
other operators, all in the same small room  shouting their heads
off. Transmitting  CQ and callsign, and hearing  the same said by
others, albeit not quite in sync is quite off-putting  !

That fact they are GOOD OPERATORS was shown in the results table  
when it was published. They managed just fine.

The Heil headsets were  about as good as a "Chocolate Fire Guard",
however eventually my brain  started filtering out the background
noise.

73
Stewart  G3RXQ

++++++++++++++++++++++
 
The fact is the QRM is in the shack!! Now picture this:  5 guys all in  a
room with K3s and DVR active. All audio optimized for best transmitter  
performance and "full quieting" while the contesters concentrate on  listening.  We
shall be so lucky!!!
 
Al WA6VNN



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[AC7AC]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> I find it strange to hear "sidetone" on a phone rig. None of the
> radios that I've used professionally do that. It's been almost ten
> years since I last operated a commercial system, so maybe things are
> changing but, if so, it's very, very new.

Possibly. But the sidetone is there specifically for those who wear
tight-fitting headphones when operating. It's not a question of listening to
your signal critically; it's just a matter of trying to recreate the
experience of hearing yourself talk in a manner as close to "normal" as
possible while wearing a headset that excludes ambient sounds.

Could you get used to operating phone with a tight headset and no sidetone? I
suppose so -- but I've been around for a while myself, and I can remember my
old-time solution for this problem: Don't wear a headset when operating phone!

My guess is that the increase in "serious" multi-op contest operation, along
with the ready availability of ham-ready headsets like the Heil models, have
led to a preference on the part of many ops to wear headsets when operating
phone. I hardly ever use a loudspeaker for either phone or CW. Personal
preference, of course, but it sure helps intelligibility on weak signals. I
set the phone sidetone on my rig at such a level that I can tell that I'm
talking and it feels natural, not so loud that I can "listen to myself".

Bill / W5WVO


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[N2TK]

I find sidetone reduces my shouting.
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 7:08 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Who needs Sidetone?? (WAS: Which Heil Prosets should
wecarry?)

I find it strange to hear "sidetone" on a phone rig. None of the radios that
I've used professionally do that. It's been almost ten years since I last
operated a commercial system, so maybe things are changing but, if so, it's
very, very new.

Since we sound completely different to ourselves than we do to others -
thanks to bone conduction in our heads - I can't see that phone sidetone
does anything useful and the issue with sidetone volume is very real, as the
phone company found out decades ago.

Back when the phone company owned all the telephones (and no one could
legally connect a different instrument to the phone line) they provided some
models with a thumbwheel or screwdriver sidetone adjustment on the bottom
that could be turned up to help the hard of hearing understand and to keep
them from shouting at the instrument.

I discovered it when we had a "shouter" in the office who heard just fine,
but who habitually talked in a **LOUD** voice all the time.  Without his
knowledge we fitted his desk with such an instrument and turned up the
sidetone full volume. He spoke rather quietly on the phone thereafter.

If you really want to know how you sound to others, you MUST record your
voice and play it back. It's best to do that on another rig so you get the
full effect to the second rig's SSB filters (for better or for worse <G>).

Ron AC7AC

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[Ken Kopp]

It seems that when an individual can't hear him/herself
there is a natural tendency to talk louder.  We all know
someone who's "hard of hearing" (an odd expression)
who talks loud.

My wife recently was fitted with her first hearing aids. Not
only do they work GREAT with no problems ... she forgets
she's wearing them ... but she's back to her normal voice
level. (:-))

They use DSP, a programmable 5-band equalizer, auto
adjust levels, etc.  They "remember" a number of days of
levels in the event an adjustment is needed.  Really neat
technology!

I use sidetone on phone ...

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
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