Elecraft

Which ONE rig would I buy?

Classic

List

Threaded

13 messages Options

David Perrin

Which ONE rig would I buy?

Hi Bob-
That is a dilemma for sure. I enjoy building and assembling as much as operating so the K3, P3 and KPA500 and K2/100 are all contenders. Too many controls and many menus are a hassle so the K3 lessens its appeal to me. The ORION II is the perfect size, I can actually can get my fingers on one knob without touching the adjacent knob and accidently moving it as well. The controls are well spaced and grouped well. Diversity reception is very cool, but not a deal maker or breaker. (This is getting to take up some serious desk real estate).
To me the EAGLE is a good size for the few . controls that it has, menus are not deep, the receiver is excellent, the CW bandwidth is excellent, its easy to connect to for digi modes and it doesn't require that you have the manual sitting beside you all the time you're using it. The EAGLE is simple and fun and leaves lot's of space for other gadgets. For a first rig, I think I would pick the EAGLE. Beyond that it is a wide wide world!! (I don't own one, but I will).

73 de Dave, K1OPQ

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 11:39:44 -0700
From: Bob K6UJ <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Which rig to buy...consider this
To: Elecraft List <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Dave,

If you could have only one of those radios you mentioned which one would it be ?

Bob
K6UJ
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

greenacres113-2

Which rig

We were just there. I use a K3/KPA500. My XYL who is mostly a contest
OP on SSB needed an updated radio for her desk. We didn't want to spend
the cost of a 2nd K3 as she only operates a few DX contests & FD. We
would have prefered American made but the TT Eagle was the only other
option. We compared it to a Kenwood TS 590s. By the time you get one or
two roofing filters the cost of the Eagle approached the K3. The TT
filters were 4 pole vs the 8 pole in the K3. The Kenwood had all the
filters built in along with a few bells & whistles the TT didn't. The
cost was $400 less for the Kenwood. But what really killed the TT Eagle
was two things most above entry level radios have & the TT doesn't. It
has only one SO 239 antenna port. So you screw & unscrew or use an
external antenna switch. Really unhandy if you have HF/VHF antennas as
we do. It also has no RX ant input. Needless to say I got her the TS
590s. The most radio for the money. It's a fine radio but it's NO
K3.......

K9IL & W9DHD
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Nate Bargmann

Re: Which ONE rig would I buy?

In reply to this post by David Perrin

My hands are not small and the K3 has plenty of spacing between its
buttions and knobs that inadvertent contact is due to my sloppy reach
rather than an issue with the K3. Like any other radio it does take
some time to learn well. The menus are for configuration and once you
have it working as you like it, you're not going to be getting back into
them. In other words, menu access is rarely needed for day-to-day
operation.

If performance is anywhere in your list of desirable features, then the
K3 is the only choice, IMO.

73, de Nate, N0NB >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

David Gilbert

Re: Which ONE rig would I buy?

I have to fully agree on both points.

When I bought my K3 I kept hearing all the comments about the density of
the knobs on the front panel, so I actually did a comparison to my old
756Pro. I measured the area of each front panel and divided by the
number of knobs and buttons. Guess what ... the K3 was about 25% less
dense than the 756Pro, and none of the K3 knobs are as inaccessible as
the five ridiculously small ones at the bottom left of the Icom.

I did indeed spend quite a bit of time in the menu when I originally set
up my K3 but I've had my rig for over three years now, I'm reasonably
active in contests, and I honestly cannot remember the last time I used
the menu for anything. Once it is set up to suit your operating
preferences you can access just about everything you operationally need
from the front panel ... the obvious exception being quick changing of
AGC parameters.

I'm not saying that the ergonomics of the K3 are ideal, but in my
opinion most people who complain about it either are too lazy to learn
the rig, haven't actually tried it, or what they really want (without
admitting it) is simply a rig that is impressively large.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 4/4/2012 3:53 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

> My hands are not small and the K3 has plenty of spacing between its
> buttions and knobs that inadvertent contact is due to my sloppy reach
> rather than an issue with the K3. Like any other radio it does take
> some time to learn well. The menus are for configuration and once you
> have it working as you like it, you're not going to be getting back into
> them. In other words, menu access is rarely needed for day-to-day
> operation.
>
> If performance is anywhere in your list of desirable features, then the
> K3 is the only choice, IMO.
>
> 73, de Nate, N0NB>>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Which ONE rig would I buy?

Dave,

I have to agree. My rig prior to the K2 was a Yaesu FT-900AT. I think
that rig is one of Yaesu's best kept secrets - good performance in a 100
watt class transmitter and good receive performance. Removable front
panel - but the buttons and knobs were quite close together. When I
built my Field Test K2, I was surprised how much space there was between
the buttons and knobs.

OK, there is not as much space between them as on my National NC-100
receiver, but then that receiver is heavy (I have not weighed it), and
it is 19 inches wide and 8.5 inches high - the desktop rack cabinet it
resides in is 21 inches wide and about 16 inches deep. It is a real
behemoth compared to the K2 or the K3 or KX3, and all 3 of those
transceiver have vastly more function than that NC-100.

That NC-100 has sentimental value because that receiver traded hands
between my old Elmer W8ELL and I several times - the price was always
what he initially bought it for - $35. Because of that fact, it will
pass with my estate - I will never sell it.

So yes, I look at the comments that the Elecraft buttons are too close,
and I compare them with my FT-900 and just "shake my head" - either
those ops have really, really FAT fingers or they have not experienced
transceivers like the Yaesu FT-900.

The FT-817 is much worse for econometrics - the tuning knob is too
small, the menus are too deep and the buttons are too small - yes, I
have an FT-817, and those are my user's assessments.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/4/2012 7:57 PM, David Gilbert wrote:

> I have to fully agree on both points.
>
> When I bought my K3 I kept hearing all the comments about the density of
> the knobs on the front panel, so I actually did a comparison to my old
> 756Pro. I measured the area of each front panel and divided by the
> number of knobs and buttons. Guess what ... the K3 was about 25% less
> dense than the 756Pro, and none of the K3 knobs are as inaccessible as
> the five ridiculously small ones at the bottom left of the Icom.
>
> I did indeed spend quite a bit of time in the menu when I originally set
> up my K3 but I've had my rig for over three years now, I'm reasonably
> active in contests, and I honestly cannot remember the last time I used
> the menu for anything. Once it is set up to suit your operating
> preferences you can access just about everything you operationally need
> from the front panel ... the obvious exception being quick changing of
> AGC parameters.
>
> I'm not saying that the ergonomics of the K3 are ideal, but in my
> opinion most people who complain about it either are too lazy to learn
> the rig, haven't actually tried it, or what they really want (without
> admitting it) is simply a rig that is impressively large.
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
> On 4/4/2012 3:53 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>> My hands are not small and the K3 has plenty of spacing between its
>> buttions and knobs that inadvertent contact is due to my sloppy reach
>> rather than an issue with the K3. Like any other radio it does take
>> some time to learn well. The menus are for configuration and once you
>> have it working as you like it, you're not going to be getting back into
>> them. In other words, menu access is rarely needed for day-to-day
>> operation.
>>
>> If performance is anywhere in your list of desirable features, then the
>> K3 is the only choice, IMO.
>>
>> 73, de Nate, N0NB>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

bdenley

Re: Which ONE rig would I buy - BUT somewhat off topic

Don:
Looking out my window, I can just see the old plant where National Radio
used to be housed, about a mile and a half away. It's on the Malden -
Melrose line, beside the railroad tracks. As a teenager, I dreamed of one
day owing one of those new HRO-500s. Never did get one.
Brian KB1VBF
http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Which ONE rig would I buy?

> Dave,
>
> I have to agree. My rig prior to the K2 was a Yaesu FT-900AT. I think
> that rig is one of Yaesu's best kept secrets - good performance in a 100
> watt class transmitter and good receive performance. Removable front
> panel - but the buttons and knobs were quite close together. When I
> built my Field Test K2, I was surprised how much space there was between
> the buttons and knobs.
>
> OK, there is not as much space between them as on my National NC-100
> receiver, but then that receiver is heavy (I have not weighed it), and
> it is 19 inches wide and 8.5 inches high - the desktop rack cabinet it
> resides in is 21 inches wide and about 16 inches deep. It is a real
> behemoth compared to the K2 or the K3 or KX3, and all 3 of those
> transceiver have vastly more function than that NC-100.
>
> That NC-100 has sentimental value because that receiver traded hands
> between my old Elmer W8ELL and I several times - the price was always
> what he initially bought it for - $35. Because of that fact, it will
> pass with my estate - I will never sell it.
>
> So yes, I look at the comments that the Elecraft buttons are too close,
> and I compare them with my FT-900 and just "shake my head" - either
> those ops have really, really FAT fingers or they have not experienced
> transceivers like the Yaesu FT-900.
>
> The FT-817 is much worse for econometrics - the tuning knob is too
> small, the menus are too deep and the buttons are too small - yes, I
> have an FT-817, and those are my user's assessments.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>

Tony Estep

Re: Which ONE rig would I buy - BUT somewhat off topic

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My first "world class" receiver was a National HRO5TA1 from the early
> 1940's.....

===========
The HRO receivers had that fantastic dial with the planetary vernier gizmo
inside and the numbers peeking through the holes -- to me, that was the
most romantic piece of gadgetry in the history of ham radio. A modern
version with a virtual picture of that dial on a screen would be a major
marketing coup.

Tony KTØNY
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Which ONE rig would I buy - BUT somewhat off topic

Tony,

If you are able to achieve a linear 1 dial division equals 1 kHz
calibration for that dial, please let me know what capacitor you used
and other parameters involved - I have two of those National Dials in
the jumkbox/

It is typical that dial could be read in 1 kHz increments given that the
average band coverage was 500 kHz. That is 1 kHz per division.
Contrast that with the digital frequency readouts of today that give you
resolution down to the nearest Hz if you select the fine tuning rate.

Those old days had their benefits (1 kHz tuning accuracy was considered
exceptional). Do we want to go back to those days? I think not.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/4/2012 11:25 PM, Tony Estep wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> My first "world class" receiver was a National HRO5TA1 from the early
>> 1940's.....
> ===========
> The HRO receivers had that fantastic dial with the planetary vernier gizmo
> inside and the numbers peeking through the holes -- to me, that was the
> most romantic piece of gadgetry in the history of ham radio. A modern
> version with a virtual picture of that dial on a screen would be a major
> marketing coup.
>
> Tony KTØNY
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Tony Estep

Re: Which ONE rig would I buy - BUT somewhat off topic

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If you are able to achieve a linear 1 dial division equals 1 kHz
> calibration for that dial, please let me know what capacitor you used...

===================
Naw, that's not what I meant. I just loved the cool way the dial itself
worked and looked. I'm not thinking of anything that has capacitors or a
VFO, or in fact generates any RF at all. I'm just thinking about that
display. What I'm imagining is that some demented genius could take a
modern receiver with a rotary encoder, and program a control program with a
visual dial display that gave the digitally computed readout but showed it
on a virtual version of the old HRO dial with the numbers peeping through
the rectangles. Actually not that hard to do with one of the control
programs like HRD, but it would take a certain obsessive sort of hacker
(not me) to want to undertake it.

Tony KT0NY

--
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

vk4tux

Which ONE rig would I buy - BUT somewhat off topic

In reply to this post by Tony Estep

Nice example here;

vk4tux
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tony Estep
Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2012 1:26 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Which ONE rig would I buy - BUT somewhat off topic

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My first "world class" receiver was a National HRO5TA1 from the early
> 1940's.....

===========
The HRO receivers had that fantastic dial with the planetary vernier gizmo
inside and the numbers peeking through the holes -- to me, that was the most
romantic piece of gadgetry in the history of ham radio. A modern version
with a virtual picture of that dial on a screen would be a major marketing
coup.

Tony KTØNY
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

w7aqk

Which ONE rig would I buy?

In reply to this post by David Perrin

Hi All,

This seems to come up a lot, and I always have to wonder how such a question
can be effectively answered, at least convincingly. The problem is that
everyone has different wants and needs. Also, just about every radio out
there is significantly different in various ways, whether it's price,
features, size, or whatever.

In my view, the only way someone can really pick the radio that's best for
them is to make a serious list of what's really important to their wants and
needs. You also need to actually get your hands on whatever radio you are
considering, because the ads don't tell you everything you need to know! We
often tend to focus on features, while forgetting things like ergonomics, or
maybe just how we really want to use it. In my case, for example, I wanted
the best radio I could afford, but one that I could also use in a variety of
situations. I travel, therefore, I want to be able to take my radio with
me. In the past, this usually meant having two radios, but the K3 allows me
to accomplish just about everything with just the one radio.

Personally, I think the K3 is the best radio out there--at least compared to
most anything even remotely close to it's price. I also think it has more
features, and better ergonomics than just about any other radio in its
class. I've not owned or used any of the higher end Yaesu's or Icoms out
there, but I've seen and touched them, and I know they are definitely "one
location" radios. I did have an Orion II, but it was huge, and I didn't
like the ergonomics at all--not to mention that I believe it was somewhat
inferior to the K3. I also owned a Yaesu Mark V, but you don't move that
radio around much either. It's possible, even still, to make a Mark V
perform exceptionally well, but it takes lots of extra filtering, etc.

Some folks say the K3 is too small. I don't get it! Someone once actually
measured the knob differences and spacing between the K3 and at least one of
the much larger radio, and found almost no justification for the complaint.
The fact that it has a smaller front panel is more than offset by the fact
that Elecraft astutely incorporated multiple feature controls with a single
knob or button. O.K.--no separate touchpad for selecting bands. That's
about the only thing I don't have on the K3 that I had on the Orion II, but
you can do a work-around with the K3's memory features. The display was
bigger, but no more informative, and the bandscope was worthless!
Otherwise, I found the Orion's ergonomics to be inferior, and required
considerably more button pushing that the K3. The Mark V was so menu
intense, I never got comfortable with it.

I am impressed with a lot that the bigger Icoms and Yaesus now offer, but it
comes at a much bigger price. Some of the features they have are wonderful,
but I seriously question claims that they perform better than the K3--at
least overall.

I guess what I would recommend is that you use the K3 as a "standard", and
then compare the pros and cons with other radios. You may well determine
that some other radio has the features you truly prefer, but at least you
are basing it off a radio with truly outstanding features, support, and
adaptability. If you do this, I think you will make a much more informed
decision. Also, don't be inappropriately mislead by the "pro and con"
commentary you see/hear. You need to evaluate these sources. I have a
short list of folks whose comments are, I believe, fair and informed. Some
folks are overly critical, and others are overly enthusiastic. I'm no
expert either, so the "grain of salt" process starts here!

I have one other suggestion, just based on my experiences. I either own, or
have owned, a lot of radios over my 57 years in the hobby. The only real
"buyer's remorse" I've had, other than from a radio that just didn't perform
as advertised, was when I "under-bought". If you spend a little too much,
you can usually live with that after a bit of a struggle with your budget.
However, when you "under-buy", there is almost an immediate sense of
frustration, which often leads to making another purchase and taking a loss
on your original one. Sometimes, coughing up an extra couple of hundred
dollars or so on the front end might save you a thousand dollars later on.
I guess the old cliché' "penny-wise and pound foolish" fits here. I offer
this commentary because I know there are a few newer rigs out there that,
although seemingly quite capable, and perhaps a few hundred dollars less
than a K3, really may not be sufficiently cheaper in the long run
considering what you lose in features. But it's not just the K3 rivals I am
thinking of--I could make the same argument as to all these Icom models that
have come out, or the various models of the Yaesu 5000. Much of this seems
to me to be these companies trying to hit "price points" as their primary
objective. Also, don't be overly influenced by the "base price". Many/most
of these radios today need additional accessories. Even Elecraft does it
this way, but the point is that you really need to carefully analyze all the
add-on you really need. Nobody does this more effectively than the computer
industry! Have you purchased one from Dell or HP lately?

Dave W7AQK

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Low man

Re: Which ONE rig would I buy?

True, when I decided on the Eagle over the K3, I added the price of
similar accessories
that I would want to each radio to determine total cost. The K3 came
out slightly
more expensive, but most of the difference was the sales tax on the
Elecraft.

BTW, I'm ordering a K3 as we speak!

The thing that I admire most about Elecraft is that you can start with a
very basic
radio, be it the K2 or K3, and add on features at a later date. How
many other
vendors can say that? Before the days of SDR radios, getting the latest and
greatest improvements meant buying a new radio.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 4/5/2012 9:36 AM, Dyarnes wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have one other suggestion, just based on my experiences. I either own, or
> have owned, a lot of radios over my 57 years in the hobby. The only real
> "buyer's remorse" I've had, other than from a radio that just didn't perform
> as advertised, was when I "under-bought". If you spend a little too much,
> you can usually live with that after a bit of a struggle with your budget.
> However, when you "under-buy", there is almost an immediate sense of
> frustration, which often leads to making another purchase and taking a loss
> on your original one. Sometimes, coughing up an extra couple of hundred
> dollars or so on the front end might save you a thousand dollars later on.
> I guess the old cliché' "penny-wise and pound foolish" fits here. I offer
> this commentary because I know there are a few newer rigs out there that,
> although seemingly quite capable, and perhaps a few hundred dollars less
> than a K3, really may not be sufficiently cheaper in the long run
> considering what you lose in features. But it's not just the K3 rivals I am
> thinking of--I could make the same argument as to all these Icom models that
> have come out, or the various models of the Yaesu 5000. Much of this seems
> to me to be these companies trying to hit "price points" as their primary
> objective. Also, don't be overly influenced by the "base price". Many/most
> of these radios today need additional accessories. Even Elecraft does it
> this way, but the point is that you really need to carefully analyze all the
> add-on you really need. Nobody does this more effectively than the computer
> industry! Have you purchased one from Dell or HP lately?
>
> Dave W7AQK
>

David Christ

Re: Which ONE rig would I buy?

In reply to this post by w7aqk

I was once involved in durable goods retailing --
mid to high end bicycles in this case. It was
not uncommon for customers to get hung up between
the bicycle they wanted to buy and the bicycle
they thought they "should" buy. This was usually
triggered by price. I told them that unless
spending the somewhat more would create a
financial hardship they should buy the bicycle
that they liked. The reasoning that I shared
with them was: If you buy the one you think you
"should" buy you will find yourself always
comparing it to the one you really wanted and
will be frustrated by any shortcomings. If you
buy the bicycle you are attracted to you will
tend to forgive any minor warts and glitches.
Another way to say it is: buying what you
"should" can lead to buyer's remorse; buying what
you like often leads to satisfaction by way of
buyer's forgiveness. (This assumes some
rationality in choosing what you want)

David K0LUM

At 9:36 AM -0700 4/5/12, Dyarnes wrote:

>[snip]
>I have one other suggestion, just based on my experiences. I either own, or
>have owned, a lot of radios over my 57 years in the hobby. The only real
>"buyer's remorse" I've had, other than from a radio that just didn't perform
>as advertised, was when I "under-bought". If you spend a little too much,
>you can usually live with that after a bit of a struggle with your budget.
>However, when you "under-buy", there is almost an immediate sense of
>frustration, which often leads to making another purchase and taking a loss
>on your original one. Sometimes, coughing up an extra couple of hundred
>dollars or so on the front end might save you a thousand dollars later on.
>I guess the old cliché' "penny-wise and pound foolish" fits here. I offer
>this commentary because I know there are a few newer rigs out there that,
>although seemingly quite capable, and perhaps a few hundred dollars less
>than a K3, really may not be sufficiently cheaper in the long run
>considering what you lose in features. But it's not just the K3 rivals I am
>thinking of--I could make the same argument as to all these Icom models that
>have come out, or the various models of the Yaesu 5000. Much of this seems
>to me to be these companies trying to hit "price points" as their primary
>objective. Also, don't be overly influenced by the "base price". Many/most
>of these radios today need additional accessories. Even Elecraft does it
>this way, but the point is that you really need to carefully analyze all the
>add-on you really need. Nobody does this more effectively than the computer
>industry! Have you purchased one from Dell or HP lately?
>
>Dave W7AQK