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Which of these would make the best power supply for the K3(S)?

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Peter Pauly

Which of these would make the best power supply for the K3(S)?

I'm looking at the Meanwell power supplies because they are cheap and seem
to be well regarded. I've come up with these two choices, feel free to give
more suggestions of other models. I've seen talk on this reflector of
supplying more than 13.8V to the K3S so that's why I'm looking at the 15V
model.

12V Model: Meanwell NES-350-12
Voltage range 10-13.5V
29A

15V Model: Meanwell NES-350-15
Voltage range 13.5-18V
23.2A

The 15 volt model would seem to be the obvious choice, except that it
doesn't supply the recommended 25 amps. The K3S manual says 22 amps typical
though.

Is there another model Meanwell I should be looking at that has better
protection or filtering?

I've already got an Astron switching power supply, the Meanwell would be a
second alternative.
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Which of these would make the best power supply for the K3(S)?

An Astron SS-30M is a much better supply and will supply the required
current. It has excellent regulation and IS NOT a noise generator.
Plus it has a volt meter and amp meter on the front panel.

73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10163

On 10/29/2015 6:51 AM, Peter Pauly wrote:
> I'm looking at the Meanwell power supplies because they are cheap and ........

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Mike K2MK

Re: Which of these would make the best power supply for the K3(S)?

In reply to this post by Peter Pauly

Hi Peter,

I bought the Astron RS-35M for my $4000 K3 in 2008. I've never turned it off and I've never even given it a second thought. No fan, no RF noise, just reliable DC.

73,
Mike K2MK

Peter Pauly wrote

I'm looking at the Meanwell power supplies because they are cheap and seem
to be well regarded. I've come up with these two choices, feel free to give
more suggestions of other models. I've seen talk on this reflector of
supplying more than 13.8V to the K3S so that's why I'm looking at the 15V
model.

12V Model: Meanwell NES-350-12
Voltage range 10-13.5V
29A

15V Model: Meanwell NES-350-15
Voltage range 13.5-18V
23.2A

The 15 volt model would seem to be the obvious choice, except that it
doesn't supply the recommended 25 amps. The K3S manual says 22 amps typical
though.

Is there another model Meanwell I should be looking at that has better
protection or filtering?

I've already got an Astron switching power supply, the Meanwell would be a
second alternative.

Jim Bolit

Re: Which of these would make the best power supply for the K3(S)?

In reply to this post by Peter Pauly

I worked as an engineer and in marketing for a major power supply company.

I did many design reviews and cost analysis on various MW power supplies.

The designs are straight forward and their derating guidelines were not as
robust as the ones I used.

One area that they "just met spec" was for conducted EMI. You need a unit
that meets level B, with VDE level B most stringent. The products I
designed had a minimum of 6 dB margin on conducted EMI. Robust EMI
filtering costs money.

Ripple current in the electrolytic caps of MW is also pushed hard. In some
cases, they use 85 versus 105 degree Centigrade capacitors, again for lower
cost.

In your application, I suspect you will not be running at 50 deg C ambient,
so that in itself will provide derating to the power supply.

Artesyn makes a standard product line of power supplies sold through their
distribution channel. They are good, very good, and easily meet all their
published specs with margin to spare (especially EMI). If you used one in
your shack, it will outlive you.

I am surprised that people that own one of the best amateur radio
transceivers in the world, would put a weak link in the chain of the overall
system. But then again, I am out at 4 sigma on the curve and companies
typically do not design for my "needs" ;>)

Jim
W6AIM

.
-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Peter
Pauly
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 4:52 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Which of these would make the best power supply for the
K3(S)?

I'm looking at the Meanwell power supplies because they are cheap and seem
to be well regarded. I've come up with these two choices, feel free to give
more suggestions of other models. I've seen talk on this reflector of
supplying more than 13.8V to the K3S so that's why I'm looking at the 15V
model.

12V Model: Meanwell NES-350-12
Voltage range 10-13.5V
29A

15V Model: Meanwell NES-350-15
Voltage range 13.5-18V
23.2A

The 15 volt model would seem to be the obvious choice, except that it
doesn't supply the recommended 25 amps. The K3S manual says 22 amps typical
though.

Is there another model Meanwell I should be looking at that has better
protection or filtering?

I've already got an Astron switching power supply, the Meanwell would be a
second alternative.
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Jim Bolit

Re: Which of these would make the best power supply for the K3(S)?

In reply to this post by Mike K2MK

Astron is another power supply that runs on the "edge". People that use
them at repeater sites on mountains derate them 50% plus so they do not have
to run to the mountain and replace power supplies.

A RS-35M in a controlled environment will do the job for a K3.

I added a "hard" crowbar circuit to my Astron. The overvoltage scheme they
use is not as robost as a hard crowbar.

Jim
W6AIM

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike
K2MK
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 6:06 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Which of these would make the best power supply for
the K3(S)?

Hi Peter,

I bought the Astron RS-35M for my $4000 K3 in 2008. I've never turned it off
and I've never even given it a second thought. No fan, no RF noise, just
reliable DC.

73,
Mike K2MK

Peter Pauly wrote

> I'm looking at the Meanwell power supplies because they are cheap and
> seem to be well regarded. I've come up with these two choices, feel
> free to give more suggestions of other models. I've seen talk on this
> reflector of supplying more than 13.8V to the K3S so that's why I'm
> looking at the 15V model.
>
> 12V Model: Meanwell NES-350-12
> Voltage range 10-13.5V
> 29A
>
>
> 15V Model: Meanwell NES-350-15
> Voltage range 13.5-18V
> 23.2A
>
>
> The 15 volt model would seem to be the obvious choice, except that it
> doesn't supply the recommended 25 amps. The K3S manual says 22 amps
> typical though.
>
> Is there another model Meanwell I should be looking at that has better
> protection or filtering?
>
> I've already got an Astron switching power supply, the Meanwell would
> be a second alternative.

Barry Baines

Re: Which of these would make the best power supply for the K3(S)?

In reply to this post by Jim Bolit

Jim:

Is there a particular Artesyn power supply model that you’d recommend?

In taking a quick review of their website, they offer a 12 VDC and 15 VDC output in the LCM300 series which provides 300 watts (20 amps at 15 VDC) and a LCM600 series offering 600 watts (40 amps at 15 VDC). I presume the 15 VDC output would more closely meet the needs of a 100W transceiver, but given that most people think that going above 14.5 VDC is not recommended, are these power supply user adjustable to reduce voltage output to 14.5 VDC?

What do you advise?

Thanks,

Barry, WD4ASW
Westborough, MA

> On Oct 29, 2015, at 1:22 PM, jim <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I worked as an engineer and in marketing for a major power supply company.
>
> I did many design reviews and cost analysis on various MW power supplies.
>
> The designs are straight forward and their derating guidelines were not as
> robust as the ones I used.
>
> One area that they "just met spec" was for conducted EMI. You need a unit
> that meets level B, with VDE level B most stringent. The products I
> designed had a minimum of 6 dB margin on conducted EMI. Robust EMI
> filtering costs money.
>
> Ripple current in the electrolytic caps of MW is also pushed hard. In some
> cases, they use 85 versus 105 degree Centigrade capacitors, again for lower
> cost.
>
> In your application, I suspect you will not be running at 50 deg C ambient,
> so that in itself will provide derating to the power supply.
>
> Artesyn makes a standard product line of power supplies sold through their
> distribution channel. They are good, very good, and easily meet all their
> published specs with margin to spare (especially EMI). If you used one in
> your shack, it will outlive you.
>
> I am surprised that people that own one of the best amateur radio
> transceivers in the world, would put a weak link in the chain of the overall
> system. But then again, I am out at 4 sigma on the curve and companies
> typically do not design for my "needs" ;>)
>
> Jim
> W6AIM
>
>
>
> .
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Peter
> Pauly
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 4:52 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] Which of these would make the best power supply for the
> K3(S)?
>
> I'm looking at the Meanwell power supplies because they are cheap and seem
> to be well regarded. I've come up with these two choices, feel free to give
> more suggestions of other models. I've seen talk on this reflector of
> supplying more than 13.8V to the K3S so that's why I'm looking at the 15V
> model.
>
> 12V Model: Meanwell NES-350-12
> Voltage range 10-13.5V
> 29A
>
>
> 15V Model: Meanwell NES-350-15
> Voltage range 13.5-18V
> 23.2A
>
>
> The 15 volt model would seem to be the obvious choice, except that it
> doesn't supply the recommended 25 amps. The K3S manual says 22 amps typical
> though.
>
> Is there another model Meanwell I should be looking at that has better
> protection or filtering?
>
> I've already got an Astron switching power supply, the Meanwell would be a
> second alternative.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Bill-3

Re: Which of these would make the best power supply for the K3(S)?

I have an Astron 35 amp - been on 24/7 since the middle 80s. Also have
an Astron 20 amp as a backup. Due to the age of the Astron, I decided it
was time to replace it for the K3/P3 only. I bought the SS30-DV. It is
small and quiet (physically quiet and RF quiet) and meets my needs
nicely. The remainder of the station runs on the old reliable Astron 35.

I did consider another big Astron, but opted for the little switcher due
to its size and weight. It was a downsizing decision, as the time may
come soon that only the K3/P3 will be kept (along with a 2-meter rig).
Also, I figure if Elecraft is selling it, it should be just fine.

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Jim Bolit

Re: Which of these would make the best power supply for the K3(S)?

In reply to this post by Jim Bolit

Good link on power supplies and repeater builds.

http://www.repeater-builder.com/astron/astron-repair/astron-repair.html

Jim
W6AIM

.

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron
D'Eau Claire
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 11:17 AM
To: 'Mike K2MK'; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Which of these would make the best power supply for
the K3(S)?

People might run them on the edge, but IMX with commercial repeaters Astrons
are conservatively rated.

Long ago I came to the conclusion was that at least some people thought a
rating such as 20A meant it could deliver 20 amps continuously.

Astrons, as their data sheet shows, are rated ICAS (or nowadays, just ICS).
ICAS was an acronym for Intermittent Commercial and Amateur service. ICS
just drops "Amateur".

ICS means the supply delivers full output for a maximum of 5 minutes,
followed by a rest period (no current demand) for at least the same period
of time. Repeaters tend to operate for hours at much higher duty cycles,
even though no one user is hogging it. And in home stations, long winded
RTTY/PSK or other high duty cycle applications mean the supply should be
operated no more than 5 min on followed by at least 5 min off if the supply
is operated at its maximum output.

Astron specifications show a continuous commercial service (CCS) rating that
the supply can deliver constantly. The 20A for example can deliver 16 amps
continuously while the 35 can deliver 25 amps continuously.

I maintained a number of commercial repeaters in the S.F. Bay area running
off of Astron 20 amp supplies at 15 or 16 amps that had been in service well
over 10 years without a failure. Some were in outdoor lockers that reached
at least 100F in the summertime.

Back in the 1990's I picked up an Astron 20A for my Ham station use which
has powered my K2/100 and K3/100 rigs just fine, even though the K3/100 is
pushing it over 22 A on some bands at 100W output. It maintains 13.8 volts
at that output. But as a brass pounder and occasional SSB operator, I'm also
running low duty cycles and I frequently am running far below the full 100
watts.

Considering the huge number of Astrons in use, I'm not surprised there are
reports of some failures. One thing we've yet to build is a piece of
equipment that won't fail, especially when trying to be price-competitive.

73, Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of jim
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 10:28 AM
To: 'Mike K2MK'; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Which of these would make the best power supply for
the K3(S)?

Astron is another power supply that runs on the "edge". People that use
them at repeater sites on mountains derate them 50% plus so they do not have
to run to the mountain and replace power supplies.

A RS-35M in a controlled environment will do the job for a K3.

I added a "hard" crowbar circuit to my Astron. The overvoltage scheme they
use is not as robost as a hard crowbar.

Jim
W6AIM

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike
K2MK
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 6:06 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Which of these would make the best power supply for
the K3(S)?

Hi Peter,

I bought the Astron RS-35M for my $4000 K3 in 2008. I've never turned it off
and I've never even given it a second thought. No fan, no RF noise, just
reliable DC.

73,
Mike K2MK

Peter Pauly wrote

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