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Wide CW Signals

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N5GE

Wide CW Signals

Is there something wrong with my P3, or are all of those extremely
wide raged CW signals I see in the DX pile-ups really that bad?
ARS N5GE

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Wide CW Signals

Depending on the radio they are using, some are really nasty!

And with some that seem to run their radio in QSK mode, but without a
QSK qualified amp, that makes things worse as they are likely arcing and
sparking the relays. Nothing like a good old spark gap transmitter to
eat up lots of bandwidth.

73
Bob, K4TAX

On 1/14/2016 10:48 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:

> Is there something wrong with my P3, or are all of those extremely
> wide raged CW signals I see in the DX pile-ups really that bad?
> ARS N5GE
>
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: Wide CW Signals

My guess is that they are that bad.
Luckily, the ones that are hot-switching their relays won't be on the
air for too long. At least, not with high power.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 14 Jan 2016 18:56, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Depending on the radio they are using, some are really nasty!
>
> And with some that seem to run their radio in QSK mode, but without a
> QSK qualified amp, that makes things worse as they are likely arcing and
> sparking the relays. Nothing like a good old spark gap transmitter to
> eat up lots of bandwidth.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1/14/2016 10:48 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:
>> Is there something wrong with my P3, or are all of those extremely
>> wide raged CW signals I see in the DX pile-ups really that bad?
>> ARS N5GE
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
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N5GE

Re: Wide CW Signals

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Below...

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 10:56:05 -0600, you wrote:

>Depending on the radio they are using, some are really nasty!
>

>And with some that seem to run their radio in QSK mode, but without a
>QSK qualified amp, that makes things worse as they are likely arcing and
>sparking the relays. Nothing like a good old spark gap transmitter to
>eat up lots of bandwidth.

Yes, I watched one yesterday in a pile-up and I could could hear the
sparking. The signal was about a kHz or more wide.

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

Rick WA6NHC-2

Re: Wide CW Signals

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

I've noticed that it is directly proportional to the signal strength,
but some ARE that wide (one brand in particular is more offensive).

Rick nhc

On 1/14/2016 9:24 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:

> My guess is that they are that bad.
> Luckily, the ones that are hot-switching their relays won't be on the
> air for too long. At least, not with high power.
>
> 73,
> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Rehovot, Israel
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 14 Jan 2016 18:56, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Depending on the radio they are using, some are really nasty!
>>
>> And with some that seem to run their radio in QSK mode, but without a
>> QSK qualified amp, that makes things worse as they are likely arcing and
>> sparking the relays. Nothing like a good old spark gap transmitter to
>> eat up lots of bandwidth.
>>
>> 73
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/14/2016 10:48 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:
>>> Is there something wrong with my P3, or are all of those extremely
>>> wide raged CW signals I see in the DX pile-ups really that bad?
>>> ARS N5GE
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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> ______________________________________________________________
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K9MA

Re: Wide CW Signals

The old FT-1000D is notorious. (I have one.) I'm not sure about the
MP. There's a mod, which helps, but it's still wide. It's a big reason
I bought a K3.

--
Scott Ellington K9MA
Madison, Wisconsin, USA

On 1/14/2016 11:26, Rick WA6NHC wrote:

> I've noticed that it is directly proportional to the signal strength,
> but some ARE that wide (one brand in particular is more offensive).
>
> Rick nhc
>
>
> On 1/14/2016 9:24 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:
>> My guess is that they are that bad.
>> Luckily, the ones that are hot-switching their relays won't be on the
>> air for too long. At least, not with high power.
>>
>> 73,
>> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>>
>> On 14 Jan 2016 18:56, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>>> Depending on the radio they are using, some are really nasty!
>>>
>>> And with some that seem to run their radio in QSK mode, but without a
>>> QSK qualified amp, that makes things worse as they are likely arcing
>>> and
>>> sparking the relays. Nothing like a good old spark gap transmitter to
>>> eat up lots of bandwidth.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/14/2016 10:48 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:
>>>> Is there something wrong with my P3, or are all of those extremely
>>>> wide raged CW signals I see in the DX pile-ups really that bad?
>>>> ARS N5GE
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>

k6dgw

Re: Wide CW Signals

In reply to this post by N5GE

I think your P3 is OK. I believe they are, for the most part, really
wide. Since I've been operating remote to W7RN with a very high
coefficient of airborne aluminum, I've discovered that the better the
antenna, the high the Key-Click volume on the band.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 1/14/2016 8:48 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:

Hisashi T Fujinaka

Re: Wide CW Signals

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

I think that can generate x-ray bursts as well.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:

> My guess is that they are that bad.
> Luckily, the ones that are hot-switching their relays won't be on the air for
> too long. At least, not with high power.
>
> 73,
> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Rehovot, Israel
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 14 Jan 2016 18:56, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Depending on the radio they are using, some are really nasty!
>>
>> And with some that seem to run their radio in QSK mode, but without a
>> QSK qualified amp, that makes things worse as they are likely arcing and
>> sparking the relays. Nothing like a good old spark gap transmitter to
>> eat up lots of bandwidth.
>>
>> 73
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/14/2016 10:48 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:
>>> Is there something wrong with my P3, or are all of those extremely
>>> wide raged CW signals I see in the DX pile-ups really that bad?
>>> ARS N5GE

--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - [hidden email]
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
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Wes (N7WS)

Re: Wide CW Signals

In reply to this post by N5GE

They're rotten. Nothing new tho.

http://www.arrl.org/news/the-old-man-rotten-damped-spark-stuff

On Jan 14, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:

Jim Brown-10

Re: Wide CW Signals

In reply to this post by k6dgw

On Thu,1/14/2016 10:17 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> I think your P3 is OK. I believe they are, for the most part, really
> wide.

Yes and no. We must learn to understand the P3 display. It reads the
voltage at the antenna input vs frequency. A stronger signal produces
more voltage at every frequency at which it generates sidebands. What
tells us bandwidth is the DIFFERENCE between the peak of the waveform
and the sidebands, and to get a good read on that, we need to put the P3
in PEAK mode. The problem is that it's tough to do that in a pileup,
because all the other signals are contributing to what the P3 sees in
the sidebands.

Yes, some of those signals ARE wide, some are VERY wide. Many DXers only
get on the air for DXpeditions to rare ones, many are OTs with OT rigs.
:) There's one of these (but a contester, not a DXer) about 2 miles down
the road from me. He only works SSB DX contests, and he wipes out the
entire band with the trash from his rig. The good news is that he has an
alternate QTH 20 miles down the coast, and since I moved in ten years
ago, he now contests from there. :)

73, Jim K9YC
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Wes (N7WS)

Re: Wide CW Signals

In reply to this post by N5GE

I've also been chasing NPOTA stations, most of whom are on 20 SSB. It is hard to believe until you hear one but there are fools running 12 KHz wide AM there.

On Jan 14, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:

Gary Gregory-2

Re: Wide CW Signals

As do many, I love looking at old gear and I marvel at the engineering skills of those who came before us youngsters, however, to use them on 20M in todays' conditions is nothing short of shameful.
15Khz wide, scratchy hard to listen to audio simply adds to the QRM and uses unnecessary bandwidth is not something I want to see/hear on the bands.
I wish these old museum pieces were placed in a museum instead.
Obviously saying anything less than glowing comments on the operators signal is greeted with scornful remarks.
I bought my K3 to get a tight, clean signal, most however it seems buy 'eye candy' over specs.
Just my devalued 2 cents worth.
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: "Wes" <[hidden email]>
Sent: ‎15/‎01/‎2016 4:43 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wide CW Signals

I've also been chasing NPOTA stations, most of whom are on 20 SSB. It is hard to believe until you hear one but there are fools running 12 KHz wide AM there.

On Jan 14, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Wide CW Signals

Administrator

In the interest of reducing list overload, lets end this thread at this time.
Lots of good replies already and a ton of traffic.

73,

Eric
List modulator
/elecraft.com/

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Wide CW Signals

In reply to this post by N5GE

Those extremely wide ragged looking signals are probably all the hounds
chasing the DX fox. You are seeing multiple signals, not one ragged one.

Buck
k4ia K3 #101
Honor Roll 333
8B DXCC

On 1/14/2016 11:48 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:

David Glasser

Re: Wide CW Signals

In reply to this post by Gary Gregory-2

I have a 1967, 7.2 liter, V8, all original Buick Riviera, why, because it is noisy and probably does not meet emission standards should I relegate it to the musem?
It is a thing of beauty admired by all, and no one cares about the consumption or the mileage on the tyres.
If it were not for that 1967 Buick many cars would not exist today!!
Just saying!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 2:58 PM
To: Wes <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wide CW Signals

As do many, I love looking at old gear and I marvel at the engineering skills of those who came before us youngsters, however, to use them on 20M in todays' conditions is nothing short of shameful.
15Khz wide, scratchy hard to listen to audio simply adds to the QRM and uses unnecessary bandwidth is not something I want to see/hear on the bands.
I wish these old museum pieces were placed in a museum instead.
Obviously saying anything less than glowing comments on the operators signal is greeted with scornful remarks.
I bought my K3 to get a tight, clean signal, most however it seems buy 'eye candy' over specs.
Just my devalued 2 cents worth.
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: "Wes" <[hidden email]>
Sent: ‎15/‎01/‎2016 4:43 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wide CW Signals

I've also been chasing NPOTA stations, most of whom are on 20 SSB. It is hard to believe until you hear one but there are fools running 12 KHz wide AM there.

On Jan 14, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is there something wrong with my P3, or are all of those extremely
> wide raged CW signals I see in the DX pile-ups really that bad?
> ARS N5GE
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

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Bill Frantz

Re: Wide CW Signals

In reply to this post by N5GE

I have a screen capture from the P3 with a CW signal about 15KHz
wide during straight key night. He was calling CQ, but I didn't
copy the call sign. I suspect a boatanchor in very poor condition.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/14/16 at 8:48 AM, [hidden email] (Amateur Radio Operator
N5GE) wrote:

>Is there something wrong with my P3, or are all of those extremely
>wide raged CW signals I see in the DX pile-ups really that bad?
>ARS N5GE

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