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Windows vs Mac

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Paul Huff-3

Windows vs Mac

Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post but I know that the collective
wisdom of the people on this list can give me a lot of good advice.

My shack computer is getting a little "long in the tooth" and I am starting to
research a replacement machine. My current ham usage for the computer consists
of logging and some digital work, but future rig control could be something that
I would be interested in doing. Recent experience with a new iPad has created a
very positive impression for me regarding Apple products but I know that "in the
old days" most ham radio software was designed for Windows only.

So my question is this - Are there now good choices available for ham radio
software (logging, digital, rig control) that will run on OSx computers?

BTW, I know that Linux is a popular operating system for ham radio these days
but I don't really know anything about it. I can certainly try to learn,
however the computer has other uses in the family and so I would need to be able
to easily switch it back into it's "standard" manufacturers configuration for my
wife who is even less techie than I am.

Any and all opinions would be appreciated.

73,
Paul - N8XMS

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David Christ

Re: Windows vs Mac

There is one other potential solution. You could possibly run
windows as a virtual machine on the Mac. We use Mac laptops but have
one program that we need to run which is available for Windows only.
We are using Parallels to virtualize Windows XP. Works great for
this application. How it would work for any particular logging
program I cannot say as I have not tried. In theory this should work.

David K0LUM

At 9:44 AM -0400 8/24/12, Paul and Sue Huff wrote:

>Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post but I know that the collective
>wisdom of the people on this list can give me a lot of good advice.
>
>My shack computer is getting a little "long in the tooth" and I am starting to
>research a replacement machine. My current ham usage for the
>computer consists
>of logging and some digital work, but future rig control could be
>something that
>I would be interested in doing. Recent experience with a new iPad
>has created a
>very positive impression for me regarding Apple products but I know
>that "in the
>old days" most ham radio software was designed for Windows only.
>
>So my question is this - Are there now good choices available for ham radio
>software (logging, digital, rig control) that will run on OSx computers?
>
>BTW, I know that Linux is a popular operating system for ham radio these days
>but I don't really know anything about it. I can certainly try to learn,
>however the computer has other uses in the family and so I would
>need to be able
>to easily switch it back into it's "standard" manufacturers
>configuration for my
>wife who is even less techie than I am.
>
>Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
>
>73,
>Paul - N8XMS
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Bill Frantz

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

Apple hardware has a very good reputation for reliability and
ability to work in harsh environments. There are several ways to
run at least two operating systems on one computer, so having
dual-boot, windows and OSx is a common way of using the hardware.

Make sure the system you get has the I/O configuration you need.
My MacBook Pro has a single audio port, which can be configured
for either input or output. I havent' figured out how to use it
for computer digital modes (my favorite modes), so I use a
SignaLink USB as an interface.

I use RUMlog for logging, and cocoaModem for digital modes under
OSx. I used RUMped for contest logging during field day and
liked it. I don't have any experience with any of the Windows
ham radio software, so don't ask for comparisons. :-)

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 8/24/12 at 6:44, [hidden email] (Paul and Sue Huff) wrote:

>Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | The first thing you need when | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | using a perimeter defense is a | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | perimeter. | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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Jim Dunstan

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

At 09:44 AM 8/24/2012 -0400, you wrote:

Hi

Not sure what "long in the tooth" means exactly related to your present
computer. However I know what you mean about the attractiveness of the Mac
computers and Apple products in general. Your present computer seems to be
filling the bill for you at the present time (ham wise) and it must also
fill family needs (apparently). I suggest leaving the present computer in
its 'HAM' role in the shack (some upgrades may be possible) and going to a
Mac computer of some kind. It will be primarily the 'family' computer and
will give you the opportunity to explore its HAM potential in more
detail. It is always a positive thing learning to use a different
operating system. In the end you will have some answers to your questions,
a good family computer, and a dedicated computer in the shack.

Which Mac computer to buy is a different question.

73 Jim, VE3CI

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Gil G.

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

Hello Paul,

I have a Mac Mini, and I love it. With 8Gb, it is speedy.
Windows is Swiss cheese when it comes to security.
You can run most Windows programs with software like Wine or CrossOver (which includes Wine).
Not all programs work, but many do.

Linux is great and I use it on my laptop. I would suggest the Ubuntu 10.04 distribution, NOT the latest one.
You can also run Windows along with OSX on a mac, even Linux. Some people manage to install all three on a Mac, but it is a bit tricky. Installing Windows on an Inter based Mac however is pretty straight forward. You choose which system you want to use at boot time. Installing Linux along Windows on a PC is also very easy, the installation program does all the work for you.

I have ditched Windows seven years ago and never looked back. Doing so saved me untold amounts of frustration, lost time, data and money.

Gil.
--
New site: http://radiopreppers.com
PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc

On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Paul and Sue Huff wrote:

> Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post but I know that the collective
> wisdom of the people on this list can give me a lot of good advice.
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Phil Hystad-3

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

I use a Mac. Actually, I use an iMac-24, a MacBook Pro Laptop, an iPad, and an iPhone. The only software I run on my Macs though are the utility programs for my Elecraft rigs and MacLoggerDX. I use MacLoggerDX for logging only and I do not use it in real-time as I use my radios. I continue to log in my spiral bound notebooks and transfer information to MacLoggerDX every now and then. I don't contest so this is a viable means of logging. If you are a contester I suggest looking at Rumlog.

Obviously I am a Mac fanatic but if you are going to use a computer mostly for ham radio applications I submit that the Windows operating system is more suitable as a ton more software is available for Windows. Sure, you can run a VM (Parallels or Fusion) on a Mac or dual-boot for Windows (or Linux or whatever) but if most of your activity is running Windows programs then why spend the premium for a Mac.

As far as Linux goes -- I use is daily because we develop systems on Linux but even the best UI on Linux sucks compared to either Windows (e.g. Windows 7 or 8) or Mac (especially Mac). I can't stand more then a few minutes using an X-Windows System UI such as Linux sports (even Ubuntu which is probably the most polished is horrible).

73, phil, K7PEH

On Aug 24, 2012, at 6:44 AM, Paul and Sue Huff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post but I know that the collective
> wisdom of the people on this list can give me a lot of good advice.
>
> My shack computer is getting a little "long in the tooth" and I am starting to
> research a replacement machine. My current ham usage for the computer consists
> of logging and some digital work, but future rig control could be something that
> I would be interested in doing. Recent experience with a new iPad has created a
> very positive impression for me regarding Apple products but I know that "in the
> old days" most ham radio software was designed for Windows only.
>
> So my question is this - Are there now good choices available for ham radio
> software (logging, digital, rig control) that will run on OSx computers?
>
> BTW, I know that Linux is a popular operating system for ham radio these days
> but I don't really know anything about it. I can certainly try to learn,
> however the computer has other uses in the family and so I would need to be able
> to easily switch it back into it's "standard" manufacturers configuration for my
> wife who is even less techie than I am.
>
> Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
>
> 73,
> Paul - N8XMS
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

M0XDF

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

Quite a lot of software is available for OSX (iMac OS) now and I think MacLoggerDx is one of the best (although not free) and has a companion version for iPad. It does a lot, including rig control. See http://www.dogparksoftware.com/MacLoggerDX.html
There is a forum too http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/dogparklist and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/macloggerdx/

For digital modes, there is cocoamodem, very good and has an interface to MacLoggerDX (via OSX scripting language - AppleScript).
See http://www.w7ay.net/site/Applications/cocoaModem/index.html (Chen is an ex Apple engineer and all his software is good).

There are plenty of other logging programs, including http://www.k1gq.com/SkookumLogger/, http://www.aetherlog.com, http://www.dl2rum.de/rumsoft/RUMLog.html (free) and many more.

A good place to look is http://machamradio.com which is "Devoted entirely to amateur radio operators using macintosh"

73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108)

Some tortures are physical / And some are mental, / But the one that is both / Is dental. -Ogden Nash, poet (1902-1971)

On 24 Aug 2012, at 14:44, Paul and Sue Huff wrote:

> Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post but I know that the collective
> wisdom of the people on this list can give me a lot of good advice.
>
> My shack computer is getting a little "long in the tooth" and I am starting to
> research a replacement machine. My current ham usage for the computer consists
> of logging and some digital work, but future rig control could be something that
> I would be interested in doing. Recent experience with a new iPad has created a
> very positive impression for me regarding Apple products but I know that "in the
> old days" most ham radio software was designed for Windows only.
>
> So my question is this - Are there now good choices available for ham radio
> software (logging, digital, rig control) that will run on OSx computers?
>
> BTW, I know that Linux is a popular operating system for ham radio these days
> but I don't really know anything about it. I can certainly try to learn,
> however the computer has other uses in the family and so I would need to be able
> to easily switch it back into it's "standard" manufacturers configuration for my
> wife who is even less techie than I am.
>
> Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
>
> 73,
> Paul - N8XMS
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

M0XDF

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

OH and then if you must use Windows, there are virtual machine systems, like Parellels, that allow you to run Windows on a Mac
73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108)
--
I am told I talk in shorthand and then smudge it. - J.R.R. Tolkien (1892 - 1973)

On 24 Aug 2012, at 14:44, Paul and Sue Huff wrote:

> Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post but I know that the collective
> wisdom of the people on this list can give me a lot of good advice.
>
> My shack computer is getting a little "long in the tooth" and I am starting to
> research a replacement machine. My current ham usage for the computer consists
> of logging and some digital work, but future rig control could be something that
> I would be interested in doing. Recent experience with a new iPad has created a
> very positive impression for me regarding Apple products but I know that "in the
> old days" most ham radio software was designed for Windows only.
>
> So my question is this - Are there now good choices available for ham radio
> software (logging, digital, rig control) that will run on OSx computers?
>
> BTW, I know that Linux is a popular operating system for ham radio these days
> but I don't really know anything about it. I can certainly try to learn,
> however the computer has other uses in the family and so I would need to be able
> to easily switch it back into it's "standard" manufacturers configuration for my
> wife who is even less techie than I am.
>
> Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
>
> 73,
> Paul - N8XMS
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Phillip Lontz

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

I have used Macs since 1984... From the the earliest 128k machines to the newest 27" imac's. They all have served me well with out any virus contamination. Four or five years ago I started running windows software on some of my machines. In general that has been a success and I have been pretty happy with the results. Currently I use a program called Crossover to run windows apps. The point of Crossover is that you do not need any Microsoft software running in the background.
I suspect that the Apple iPad will find it's way into the ham radio world more and more as time passes.... Wht? Because it simply works... Really well. Tight integration between the development software and the hardware. Love to write for the iPad and iPhone.

Phil
Santa Fe
KF5ROJ

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 24, 2012, at 8:20 AM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Apple hardware has a very good reputation for reliability and
> ability to work in harsh environments. There are several ways to
> run at least two operating systems on one computer, so having
> dual-boot, windows and OSx is a common way of using the hardware.
>
> Make sure the system you get has the I/O configuration you need.
> My MacBook Pro has a single audio port, which can be configured
> for either input or output. I havent' figured out how to use it
> for computer digital modes (my favorite modes), so I use a
> SignaLink USB as an interface.
>
> I use RUMlog for logging, and cocoaModem for digital modes under
> OSx. I used RUMped for contest logging during field day and
> liked it. I don't have any experience with any of the Windows
> ham radio software, so don't ask for comparisons. :-)
>
> Cheers - Bill, AE6JV
>
> On 8/24/12 at 6:44, [hidden email] (Paul and Sue Huff) wrote:
>
>> Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz | The first thing you need when | Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506 | using a perimeter defense is a | 16345
> Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com | perimeter. | Los Gatos,
> CA 95032
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jack Berry

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

I have a Mac Mini as well as a Win7 Dell laptop. The Dell is the ham machine but the Mac could easily fill the bill using Windows 7. I boot it directly to Win7 and no problems.
If you are used to a desktop with serial ports you will need to get a good USB/RS232 multi port. There are some good ones.

On Aug 24, 2012, at 8:44 AM, "Paul and Sue Huff" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post but I know that the collective
> wisdom of the people on this list can give me a lot of good advice.
>
> My shack computer is getting a little "long in the tooth" and I am starting to
> research a replacement machine. My current ham usage for the computer consists
> of logging and some digital work, but future rig control could be something that
> I would be interested in doing. Recent experience with a new iPad has created a
> very positive impression for me regarding Apple products but I know that "in the
> old days" most ham radio software was designed for Windows only.
>
> So my question is this - Are there now good choices available for ham radio
> software (logging, digital, rig control) that will run on OSx computers?
>
> BTW, I know that Linux is a popular operating system for ham radio these days
> but I don't really know anything about it. I can certainly try to learn,
> however the computer has other uses in the family and so I would need to be able
> to easily switch it back into it's "standard" manufacturers configuration for my
> wife who is even less techie than I am.
>
> Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
>
> 73,
> Paul - N8XMS
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

> Apple hardware has a very good reputation for reliability and
> ability to work in harsh environments.

While Apple has a good reputation for reliable hardware, their
software policies make that long term reliability useless. Apple
simply updates the operating system so often - and requires that
all users purchase each incremental update. In addition, each
major version upgrade will not run on less than current hardware
(e.g. "Mountain Lion" will not run on Intel "Core2 Duo" systems
that are only a four years old) and many application updates
require the current OS version.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 8/24/2012 10:20 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:

Andy McMullin

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

Paul,

The subject of Mac or PC can sometimes start religious wars; however these days it is possible to have the best of all worlds!

A modern Mac can not only run Apple's operating system and software, it can also run either Windows or Linux at the same time.

There are excellent applications for the Mac but if you need a windows app, just run one if the virtual machines. The only thing is to remember to specify a lot of memory in your machine.

I hope this helps.

Sent from my iPhone

On 24 Aug 2012, at 14:44, "Paul and Sue Huff" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post but I know that the collective
> wisdom of the people on this list can give me a lot of good advice.
>
> My shack computer is getting a little "long in the tooth" and I am starting to
> research a replacement machine. My current ham usage for the computer consists
> of logging and some digital work, but future rig control could be something that
> I would be interested in doing. Recent experience with a new iPad has created a
> very positive impression for me regarding Apple products but I know that "in the
> old days" most ham radio software was designed for Windows only.
>
> So my question is this - Are there now good choices available for ham radio
> software (logging, digital, rig control) that will run on OSx computers?
>
> BTW, I know that Linux is a popular operating system for ham radio these days
> but I don't really know anything about it. I can certainly try to learn,
> however the computer has other uses in the family and so I would need to be able
> to easily switch it back into it's "standard" manufacturers configuration for my
> wife who is even less techie than I am.
>
> Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
>
> 73,
> Paul - N8XMS
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Grant Youngman

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

>>
>
> While Apple has a good reputation for reliable hardware, their
> software policies make that long term reliability useless. Apple
> simply updates the operating system so often - and requires that
> all users purchase each incremental update.

Partly true, but with a major caveat. Point upgrades, e.g. Lion (10.7) to Mountain Lion (10.8) cost a "budget busting" $20. Updates within that point level (e.g.10.8.1 to 10.8.2) cost nothing. I can purchase a whole lot of future Apple OS upgrades for the price of one copy of Windows 8.

> In addition, each
> major version upgrade will not run on less than current hardware
> (e.g. "Mountain Lion" will not run on Intel "Core2 Duo" systems
> that are only a four years old) and many application updates
> require the current OS version.

Mountain Lion will not run on machines that have a 32-bit EFI (bios). It has nothing to do with the processor type. My going on 5 year old Core 2 Duo Mac Book Pro runs just fine with 10.8. My 2007 Quad Core Mac Pro does not, because it has a 32-bit (rather than 64-bit) EFI. Time passes, technology changes. You might be able to load Windows 8 on some ancient machine, but getting it to run in any useful way is a completely different issue. And realistically, most computer systems are getting pretty ancient at the 5 year mark.
>

Grant/NQ5T

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Bill K9YEQ

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

Check the Elecraft mail reflector archives for information.... This topic
has been beaten to death many times before. Lots of information, and tons
of misinformation. Technically, there's lots of choices, make the one best
for you.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

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Mike Reublin

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

Paul,

I'm currently using a MacBook Pro flaptop that I bought to study Apple
programming. It's currently running the latest version of OS X, Mountain
Lion. The upgrade cost 19.95 and was a non-event.

I also run Windows 7 on it under Parallels, a virtual machine. Both ML
and Win 7 run at the same time.

On the Mac side I settled on RUMLog for logging and CocoaModem for digi
work. RUMLog can use either CCM or FLDigi. No interface needed, just two
audio cables.

I tried MacLoggerDX and preferred RUMLog. IMHO, better support. Both
have rig control, RUMLog doesn't have rotor control.......yet.

The Mac's have a single jack for audio in and out. The simple solution
is a iMic dongle which splits 'em.

The Apple operating system is a civilized layer over the savagery of
Linux. I tried Linux on an extra flaptop and could never get it going to
my satisfaction.

The least expensive new Mac is the Mini.

73, Mike NF4L

On 8/24/12 9:44 AM, Paul and Sue Huff wrote:

> Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post but I know that the collective
> wisdom of the people on this list can give me a lot of good advice.
>
> My shack computer is getting a little "long in the tooth" and I am starting to
> research a replacement machine. My current ham usage for the computer consists
> of logging and some digital work, but future rig control could be something that
> I would be interested in doing. Recent experience with a new iPad has created a
> very positive impression for me regarding Apple products but I know that "in the
> old days" most ham radio software was designed for Windows only.
>
> So my question is this - Are there now good choices available for ham radio
> software (logging, digital, rig control) that will run on OSx computers?
>
> BTW, I know that Linux is a popular operating system for ham radio these days
> but I don't really know anything about it. I can certainly try to learn,
> however the computer has other uses in the family and so I would need to be able
> to easily switch it back into it's "standard" manufacturers configuration for my
> wife who is even less techie than I am.
>
> Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
>
> 73,
> Paul - N8XMS
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Jussi Eloranta

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

On 08/24/2012 06:44 AM, Paul and Sue Huff wrote:
> BTW, I know that Linux is a popular operating system for ham radio these days
> but I don't really know anything about it. I can certainly try to learn,
> however the computer has other uses in the family and so I would need to be able
> to easily switch it back into it's "standard" manufacturers configuration for my
> wife who is even less techie than I am.
You can grab a live image, put it on a USB stick and boot from there.
This way you can try it out without installing it on your hard drive.
You can even keep running it this way permanently but it would run
a bit slower than from hard drive.

The two most common distros are Fedora and Ubuntu. Info
on the live images can be found from:

http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/Installation_Quick_Start_Guide/index.html#Introduction
http://www.ubuntu.com/download/help/try-ubuntu-before-you-install

Ubuntu might be a bit user friendlier but Fedora is certainly more
customizable. I believe both include hamlib that supports K2, K3/KX3 etc.

Jussi Eloranta (AA6KJ)

ps. Fedora ham radio guide is at:
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora_Draft_Documentation/0.1/html/Amateur_Radio_Guide/index.html
but it is missing important things like cqrlog (which I use with my K3;
see www.cqrlog.com). There is also a short intro for ubuntu for hams at
http://www.arrl.org/ubuntu-linux-for-hams. Also a ham oriented spin off
of ubuntu is available:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/kb1oiq-andysham/; you might be able to
run this off of a usb stick too.

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Jim Rogers, W4ATK

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Paul Huff-3

I have found the Mac to be an excellent choice. For those programs that I really need from my old PC, I run under CrossOvere ($59.95) where ther run as Mac apps with no switching back and forth. I have found the Navigator to be an excellent interface satisfying every need for serial port, cw keyer etc. Personally, I would not even consider going back to a PC.

Logging: MacLogger DX
Digital Modes: FLDigi
CW: Flwkey and WK24Mac (which I wrote)

73s Jim W4ATK
59 years of hammin' it up

On Aug 24, 2012, at 8:44 AM, "Paul and Sue Huff" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post but I know that the collective
> wisdom of the people on this list can give me a lot of good advice.
>
> My shack computer is getting a little "long in the tooth" and I am starting to
> research a replacement machine. My current ham usage for the computer consists
> of logging and some digital work, but future rig control could be something that
> I would be interested in doing. Recent experience with a new iPad has created a
> very positive impression for me regarding Apple products but I know that "in the
> old days" most ham radio software was designed for Windows only.
>
> So my question is this - Are there now good choices available for ham radio
> software (logging, digital, rig control) that will run on OSx computers?
>
> BTW, I know that Linux is a popular operating system for ham radio these days
> but I don't really know anything about it. I can certainly try to learn,
> however the computer has other uses in the family and so I would need to be able
> to easily switch it back into it's "standard" manufacturers configuration for my
> wife who is even less techie than I am.
>
> Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
>
> 73,
> Paul - N8XMS
>
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Grant Youngman

> Mountain Lion will not run on machines that have a 32-bit EFI (bios).
> It has nothing to do with the processor type. My going on 5 year old
> Core 2 Duo Mac Book Pro runs just fine with 10.8. My 2007 Quad Core
> Mac Pro does not, because it has a 32-bit (rather than 64-bit) EFI.
> Time passes, technology changes. You might be able to load Windows 8
> on some ancient machine, but getting it to run in any useful way is a
> completely different issue. And realistically, most computer systems
> are getting pretty ancient at the 5 year mark.

Windows XP was a screamer on a 2 GHz Core 2 Duo, Vista was a hotrod
on that processor, Windows 7 is the most stable operating system ever
on that platform ... all on a four year old Mac Mini that Apple will
not support with Mountain Lion. Even the Windows 8 preview runs just
fine on another system with similar processor/RAM although it could
probably benefit from another couple GB of RAM.

I certainly do not consider those systems "ancient" by any means *but*
it means that I will not be running OS-X on anything for a long time.
I will probably wipe the Apple operating systems from the Mac Minis
in the house and convert them to Windows 7 or Windows 8 and enjoy the
far greater choice of amateur software as well.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 8/24/2012 11:10 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:

>>>
>>
>> While Apple has a good reputation for reliable hardware, their
>> software policies make that long term reliability useless. Apple
>> simply updates the operating system so often - and requires that
>> all users purchase each incremental update.
>
> Partly true, but with a major caveat. Point upgrades, e.g. Lion (10.7) to Mountain Lion (10.8) cost a "budget busting" $20. Updates within that point level (e.g.10.8.1 to 10.8.2) cost nothing. I can purchase a whole lot of future Apple OS upgrades for the price of one copy of Windows 8.
>
>
>> In addition, each
>> major version upgrade will not run on less than current hardware
>> (e.g. "Mountain Lion" will not run on Intel "Core2 Duo" systems
>> that are only a four years old) and many application updates
>> require the current OS version.
>
> Mountain Lion will not run on machines that have a 32-bit EFI (bios). It has nothing to do with the processor type. My going on 5 year old Core 2 Duo Mac Book Pro runs just fine with 10.8. My 2007 Quad Core Mac Pro does not, because it has a 32-bit (rather than 64-bit) EFI. Time passes, technology changes. You might be able to load Windows 8 on some ancient machine, but getting it to run in any useful way is a completely different issue. And realistically, most computer systems are getting pretty ancient at the 5 year mark.
>>
>
> Grant/NQ5T
>
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Scott Manthe-2

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Joe,
This is simply wrong. While Apple releases incremental OS upgrades about
once a year, Apple doesn't require anyone, let alone "all users," to buy
an upgrade. I waited over a year before I upgraded to Snow Leopard
(10.6) and have no plans to upgrade to Mountain Lion (10.8) any time
soon. My Macs run fine, and Apple is not nagging me to update the OS in
my old Mac Mini, which is running 10.5. If you have an old Mac, run the
older OSs. You'll also probably have to run some older programs on it as
well, but Apple doesn't require you to upgrade your OS.

73,
Scott, N9AA

On 8/24/12 10:56 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> > Apple hardware has a very good reputation for reliability and
> > ability to work in harsh environments.
>
> While Apple has a good reputation for reliable hardware, their
> software policies make that long term reliability useless. Apple
> simply updates the operating system so often - and requires that
> all users purchase each incremental update. In addition, each
> major version upgrade will not run on less than current hardware
> (e.g. "Mountain Lion" will not run on Intel "Core2 Duo" systems
> that are only a four years old) and many application updates
> require the current OS version.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>

M0XDF

Re: Windows vs Mac

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Sorry, I don't agree Joe - there are regular 'point' upgrades that are free, easy to download and install, but you don't have to upgrade if you don't wish too. The major version upgrades (10.5 -> 10.6 -> 10.7 -> 10.8) are paid for, but then so are the windows equivalents.
you don't have to upgrade and while it's true older hardware doesn't support the latest OS, you can go a long way with older hardware and software before it becomes a problem. The latest OSX 10.8 (Mountain Lion) will run on an iMac & a MacBook Pro from mid 2007 (other models from later dates).
I'm running an iMac Intel Core 2 Duo from Aug 2007 and ML will run on that.

There are few applications (if any) that 'require' ML, a few do require Lion, but then is been around since 2011, most apps run on 10.6 (Snow Leopard) with no problems and that’s been around since August 2009.

My experience (and it's extensive on many OS) is that windows sytems 'time out' faster than Apple ones.

73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108)

--
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we
created them. -Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel laureate (1879-1955)

On 24 Aug 2012, at 15:56, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
>> Apple hardware has a very good reputation for reliability and
>> ability to work in harsh environments.
>
> While Apple has a good reputation for reliable hardware, their
> software policies make that long term reliability useless. Apple
> simply updates the operating system so often - and requires that
> all users purchase each incremental update. In addition, each
> major version upgrade will not run on less than current hardware
> (e.g. "Mountain Lion" will not run on Intel "Core2 Duo" systems
> that are only a four years old) and many application updates
> require the current OS version.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 8/24/2012 10:20 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:
>> Apple hardware has a very good reputation for reliability and
>> ability to work in harsh environments. There are several ways to
>> run at least two operating systems on one computer, so having
>> dual-boot, windows and OSx is a common way of using the hardware.
>>
>> Make sure the system you get has the I/O configuration you need.
>> My MacBook Pro has a single audio port, which can be configured
>> for either input or output. I havent' figured out how to use it
>> for computer digital modes (my favorite modes), so I use a
>> SignaLink USB as an interface.
>>
>> I use RUMlog for logging, and cocoaModem for digital modes under
>> OSx. I used RUMped for contest logging during field day and
>> liked it. I don't have any experience with any of the Windows
>> ham radio software, so don't ask for comparisons. :-)
>>
>> Cheers - Bill, AE6JV
>>
>> On 8/24/12 at 6:44, [hidden email] (Paul and Sue Huff) wrote:
>>
>>> Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Bill Frantz | The first thing you need when | Periwinkle
>> (408)356-8506 | using a perimeter defense is a | 16345
>> Englewood Ave
>> www.pwpconsult.com | perimeter. | Los Gatos,
>> CA 95032
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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