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another contesting how-to question

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Tim Urban

another contesting how-to question

K3 operator used to work CW contests all manually with a paddle plugged
into K3 and a pad of paper, now would like to experiment with an integrated
logging setup where I use a logging program to both log and send cw.

Trying to figure out the shortest line from here to there with least number
of software applications, cables, phantom com ports, etc.

Can N1MM or other logging program be set up to use my computer's one RS232
port to log using the vfo freq and to generate and send cw, or do I need a
separate winkeyer USB box?

73 and thx in advance for any suggestions

Tim
N5IIT
[hidden email]
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: another contesting how-to question

Tim,

If your keying speed is at 20 WPM or less you can likely get by without
the Winkeyer, but Windows does not allow the logger application to have
direct control of the serial port, so there will be some timing
differences in the keying. At slower speeds it may not be noticeable,
but as the speed increases, the timing becomes more critical - so use a
WinKey to solve that problem.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/14/2012 8:26 AM, Timothy Urban wrote:

> K3 operator used to work CW contests all manually with a paddle plugged
> into K3 and a pad of paper, now would like to experiment with an integrated
> logging setup where I use a logging program to both log and send cw.
>
> Trying to figure out the shortest line from here to there with least number
> of software applications, cables, phantom com ports, etc.
>
> Can N1MM or other logging program be set up to use my computer's one RS232
> port to log using the vfo freq and to generate and send cw, or do I need a
> separate winkeyer USB box?
>

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NW0M

Re: another contesting how-to question

In reply to this post by Tim Urban

Can N1MM or other logging program be set up to use my computer's one RS232
port to log using the vfo freq and to generate and send cw, or do I need a
separate winkeyer USB box?

Tim,

I have used N1MM with only my direct single interface between the K3 and my laptop since last August and operated in many CW contests without ANY issues. It works great. It is a newer laptop (4GB memory) with Windows 7 and 64 bit.

Mitch
WD0ECO

Chester Alderman

Re: another contesting how-to question

In reply to this post by Tim Urban

Tim,

You will probably get a lot of under-informed information about using N1MM
and Windows to send CW. I have been using Windows and several different 'CW'
programs to generate CW since the early 1970's and I can tell you from
experience that IT DOES WORK!! Some folks will refer to 'CW stutter' when
using a PC serial port to generate code, but what they don't realize is that
a PC CPU generates I/O interrupts every time the system generates a sound.
The I/O interrupts affect the serial and parallel port and if you use a
serial port to generate CW, this will cause the CW generation to 'stutter'.
The very simple solution is to go into Windows, no matter what version, and
turn Windows sound generation OFF. The beeps and boops Windows generates
were 'cute' back when Windows first hit the market, they were cute but very
worthless. So turning Windows sound generation OFF will eliminate CW
stutter.

Today most hams would rather 'buy' than use a brain cell to 'fix' a simple
problem. So you can spend in excess of $100 to buy a CW keyer, or you can
make a simple change in Windows, that cost you about three minutes, and then
use N1MM's serial port capability to send CW with your K3, using the one
serial cable from your PC to your K3 and in N1MM, setting DTR to CW and on
your K3 CONFIG, setting PTT-KEY to OFF-dtr. And that is all you need!! N1MM
can send CW much faster than your K3 can send CW, but that doesn't matter
for contesting.

I presently use Windows 7 Pro 64-bit for my operating system.

Good luck and 73,
Tom - W4BQF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Timothy Urban
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:26 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] another contesting how-to question

K3 operator used to work CW contests all manually with a paddle plugged
into K3 and a pad of paper, now would like to experiment with an integrated
logging setup where I use a logging program to both log and send cw.

Trying to figure out the shortest line from here to there with least number
of software applications, cables, phantom com ports, etc.

Can N1MM or other logging program be set up to use my computer's one RS232
port to log using the vfo freq and to generate and send cw, or do I need a
separate winkeyer USB box?

73 and thx in advance for any suggestions

Tim
N5IIT
[hidden email]
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Randy Moore

Re: another contesting how-to question

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Maybe I'm just lucky (although other data indicates otherwise!), but I
operate N1MM in contests with my N1MM keyer speed set to 25-30 wpm (usually
28 wpm) and have never detected a problem with it. I'm running Windows 7
(64-bit) on a fairly new CPU, and that probably has a lot to do with it.

73,
Randy, KS4L

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tim,
>
> If your keying speed is at 20 WPM or less you can likely get by without
> the Winkeyer, but Windows does not allow the logger application to have
> direct control of the serial port, so there will be some timing
> differences in the keying. At slower speeds it may not be noticeable,
> but as the speed increases, the timing becomes more critical - so use a
> WinKey to solve that problem.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 2/14/2012 8:26 AM, Timothy Urban wrote:
> > K3 operator used to work CW contests all manually with a paddle plugged
> > into K3 and a pad of paper, now would like to experiment with an
> integrated
> > logging setup where I use a logging program to both log and send cw.
> >
> > Trying to figure out the shortest line from here to there with least
> number
> > of software applications, cables, phantom com ports, etc.
> >
> > Can N1MM or other logging program be set up to use my computer's one
> RS232
> > port to log using the vfo freq and to generate and send cw, or do I need
> a
> > separate winkeyer USB box?
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: another contesting how-to question

In reply to this post by NW0M

My main shack computer is an 8-year-old Pentium 4 running Windows XP.
At various times, I have run serial port and parallel port CW, as well
as Winkey. I never had any difficulty with CW quality with any keying
method and N1MM Logger.

I have settled on Winkey, for two reasons. First, a single keyer gives
me both manual keying (for DXing and ragchewing) and flawless CW for use
with N1MM Logger. Second, using the Winkey allows me to interrupt a
"canned" message being sent with a single dit or an interjection from
the paddle, seamlessly.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 2/14/2012 9:09 AM, WD0ECO wrote:

> Can N1MM or other logging program be set up to use my computer's one RS232
> port to log using the vfo freq and to generate and send cw, or do I need a
> separate winkeyer USB box?
>
>
> Tim,
>
> I have used N1MM with only my direct single interface between the K3 and my
> laptop since last August and operated in many CW contests without ANY
> issues. It works great. It is a newer laptop (4GB memory) with Windows 7
> and 64 bit.
>
> Mitch
> WD0ECO
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/another-contesting-how-to-question-tp7283861p7283949.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>

Tony Estep

Re: another contesting how-to question

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>... never had any difficulty with CW quality with any keying
> method...
===================
Yeah, same with MixW. I have used it for years to key CW at many
speeds and never had a single timing issue.

There are very serious timing problems on CW when using certain SDR
programs, but this is a software flaw in those programs and has
nothing to do with Windows, and nothing to do with a K3.

If keying is done by asserting DTR, there is no stuttering even if an
interrupt (or more properly, a DPC) is generated in the middle of a
character element.

I'm sure that if you get your N1MM set up properly, you'll have no
problem with keying CW.

Tony KT0NY

--
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: another contesting how-to question

In reply to this post by Randy Moore

I have good results with n1mm too, with an older xp computer. Difficulties may be caused by internet activity (i don't use cluster in contests).

Vic

Sent from my phone

On Feb 14, 2012, at 5:36 PM, Randy Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Maybe I'm just lucky (although other data indicates otherwise!), but I
> operate N1MM in contests with my N1MM keyer speed set to 25-30 wpm (usually
> 28 wpm) and have never detected a problem with it. I'm running Windows 7
> (64-bit) on a fairly new CPU, and that probably has a lot to do with it.
>
> 73,
> Randy, KS4L
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Tim,
>>
>> If your keying speed is at 20 WPM or less you can likely get by without
>> the Winkeyer, but Windows does not allow the logger application to have
>> direct control of the serial port, so there will be some timing
>> differences in the keying. At slower speeds it may not be noticeable,
>> but as the speed increases, the timing becomes more critical - so use a
>> WinKey to solve that problem.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 2/14/2012 8:26 AM, Timothy Urban wrote:
>>> K3 operator used to work CW contests all manually with a paddle plugged
>>> into K3 and a pad of paper, now would like to experiment with an
>> integrated
>>> logging setup where I use a logging program to both log and send cw.
>>>
>>> Trying to figure out the shortest line from here to there with least
>> number
>>> of software applications, cables, phantom com ports, etc.
>>>
>>> Can N1MM or other logging program be set up to use my computer's one
>> RS232
>>> port to log using the vfo freq and to generate and send cw, or do I need
>> a
>>> separate winkeyer USB box?
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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David Gilbert

Re: another contesting how-to question

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

A lot depends upon your computer and what other apps you are running on
it. I have a five year old quad core Intel machine running Windows XP
and during contests both N1MM and CW Skimmer are often active. I
typically run CW speeds of 28 or 30 wpm and might get one or two minor
stutters throughout the course of a major contest. WinKey is a nice
piece of gear and I've considered buying one myself, but I've never been
able to justify it since I simply don't need it.

Dave AB7E

On 2/14/2012 7:04 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Tim,
>
> If your keying speed is at 20 WPM or less you can likely get by without
> the Winkeyer, but Windows does not allow the logger application to have
> direct control of the serial port, so there will be some timing
> differences in the keying. At slower speeds it may not be noticeable,
> but as the speed increases, the timing becomes more critical - so use a
> WinKey to solve that problem.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 2/14/2012 8:26 AM, Timothy Urban wrote:
>> K3 operator used to work CW contests all manually with a paddle plugged
>> into K3 and a pad of paper, now would like to experiment with an integrated
>> logging setup where I use a logging program to both log and send cw.
>>
>> Trying to figure out the shortest line from here to there with least number
>> of software applications, cables, phantom com ports, etc.
>>
>> Can N1MM or other logging program be set up to use my computer's one RS232
>> port to log using the vfo freq and to generate and send cw, or do I need a
>> separate winkeyer USB box?
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Matt Murphy

Re: another contesting how-to question

I have a winkeyer USB but still just use N1MM for keying. I have not had
any problems with it. I actually prefer the feel of the K3's built-in
keyer (for sending by hand), but since sending CW via CAT commands is not
supported by N1MM, the winkeyer is the only approach that allows you to
adjust one knob to set the computer + paddle speed.

Matt NQ6N

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 11:08 AM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]>wrote:

>
> A lot depends upon your computer and what other apps you are running on
> it. I have a five year old quad core Intel machine running Windows XP
> and during contests both N1MM and CW Skimmer are often active. I
> typically run CW speeds of 28 or 30 wpm and might get one or two minor
> stutters throughout the course of a major contest. WinKey is a nice
> piece of gear and I've considered buying one myself, but I've never been
> able to justify it since I simply don't need it.
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
> On 2/14/2012 7:04 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> > Tim,
> >
> > If your keying speed is at 20 WPM or less you can likely get by without
> > the Winkeyer, but Windows does not allow the logger application to have
> > direct control of the serial port, so there will be some timing
> > differences in the keying. At slower speeds it may not be noticeable,
> > but as the speed increases, the timing becomes more critical - so use a
> > WinKey to solve that problem.
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> > On 2/14/2012 8:26 AM, Timothy Urban wrote:
> >> K3 operator used to work CW contests all manually with a paddle plugged
> >> into K3 and a pad of paper, now would like to experiment with an
> integrated
> >> logging setup where I use a logging program to both log and send cw.
> >>
> >> Trying to figure out the shortest line from here to there with least
> number
> >> of software applications, cables, phantom com ports, etc.
> >>
> >> Can N1MM or other logging program be set up to use my computer's one
> RS232
> >> port to log using the vfo freq and to generate and send cw, or do I
> need a
> >> separate winkeyer USB box?
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>

Ralph Parker

Re: another contesting how-to question

In reply to this post by Tim Urban

Back in my NA days (under DOS), I used the serial and then the printer port
to key the radio via a simple transistor interface.
When I switched to N1MM (under XP), I used a microHAM interface to avoid
the stuttering, and to exchange info (frequency, etc.) with the radio, as
well as send perfect CW via the built-in Winkey interface.

I understand that N1MM can key the radio directly, but can it exchange info
with the radio via the RS-232 port? I've never tried it.

Ralph, VE7XF

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Julius Fazekas n2wn

Re: another contesting how-to question

In reply to this post by Tim Urban

Tim,

Winkeyer is a great piece of equipment and was needed for the K2 after some changes to N1MM years back, due to timing issues.

For the K3, you do not "need" Winkeyer at all, and we're talking up to 40 WPM. You do need two ports. You can use the LPT port or USB to Serial adapter from your computer, or there are serial add-on cards to be had. N1MM generates CW.

You will need to build/buy a very simple serial port keying interface to key the K3 from the program. It is in the N1MM start document, and I see there are a couple folks who have built little boards for CW/PTT/FSK for this purpose.

Winkeyer may be a cost effective option, if you don't have a usable second port option.

I traded my last built Winkeyer for an un-built kit and some aluminum tubing. The keyer is still unbuilt. The aluminum is in 40M vertical form ;o)

Check the getting started with N1MM document, it explains a lot of this in easy to read details. One of the better start=up guides I've seen...

GL in ARRL DX CW!

73,
Julius
n2wn

Julius Fazekas
N2WN

Tennessee Contest Group
http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

Tennessee QSO Party
http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2 #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366
Elecraft K3/100

NW0M

Re: another contesting how-to question

I only use one port and the single interface (USB to Serial) from N1MM generates the CW and PTT. You do not need any kind of built or external keying interface to key the K3. It's very simple and straight-forward.

73,
Mitch

Julius Fazekas n2wn wrote

Tim,

Winkeyer is a great piece of equipment and was needed for the K2 after some changes to N1MM years back, due to timing issues.

For the K3, you do not "need" Winkeyer at all, and we're talking up to 40 WPM. You do need two ports. You can use the LPT port or USB to Serial adapter from your computer, or there are serial add-on cards to be had. N1MM generates CW.

You will need to build/buy a very simple serial port keying interface to key the K3 from the program. It is in the N1MM start document, and I see there are a couple folks who have built little boards for CW/PTT/FSK for this purpose.

Winkeyer may be a cost effective option, if you don't have a usable second port option.

I traded my last built Winkeyer for an un-built kit and some aluminum tubing. The keyer is still unbuilt. The aluminum is in 40M vertical form ;o)

Check the getting started with N1MM document, it explains a lot of this in easy to read details. One of the better start=up guides I've seen...

GL in ARRL DX CW!

73,
Julius
n2wn

Ted Bryant

Re: another contesting how-to question

In reply to this post by Ralph Parker

Ralph,

http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Interfacing+Basics&structure=N1M
M+Logger+Documentation

73, Ted W4NZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Ralph Parker
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:53 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] another contesting how-to question

Back in my NA days (under DOS), I used the serial and then the printer port
to key the radio via a simple transistor interface.
When I switched to N1MM (under XP), I used a microHAM interface to avoid
the stuttering, and to exchange info (frequency, etc.) with the radio, as
well as send perfect CW via the built-in Winkey interface.

I understand that N1MM can key the radio directly, but can it exchange info
with the radio via the RS-232 port? I've never tried it.

Ralph, VE7XF
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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David Christ

Re: another contesting how-to question

A suggestion to all when including longer links in your message.

I apologize to Tom but as you see below when longer URLs exceed the
line length they may be truncated. To prevent this put your lin
between angle brackets <link>

Many mail readers will recognize the full URL

Example:

<http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Interfacing+Basics&structure=N1M
M+Logger+Documentation>

David K0LUM

At 5:16 PM -0500 2/14/12, Ted Bryant wrote:
>Ralph,
>
>http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Interfacing+Basics&structure=N1M
>M+Logger+Documentation
>
>73, Ted W4NZ
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Tony Estep

Re: another contesting how-to question

In reply to this post by Ted Bryant

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 5:06 PM, David Christ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>... put your link between angle brackets <link>
>
> Example:
>
> <http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Interfacing+Basics&structure=N1M
> M+Logger+Documentation>
>
===================
Unfortunately, that doesn't work either, sad to say. Ah well....

Tony KT0NY
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Ted Bryant

Re: another contesting how-to question

So, how do you avoid the truncation?

Btw, copy and paste works.

Ted W4NZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Tony Estep
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:25 PM
To: Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] another contesting how-to question

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 5:06 PM, David Christ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>... put your link between angle brackets <link>
>
> Example:
>
>
<http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Interfacing+Basics&structure=N1
M
> M+Logger+Documentation>
>
===================
Unfortunately, that doesn't work either, sad to say. Ah well....

Tony KT0NY

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k6dgw

Re: another contesting how-to question

On 2/14/2012 4:08 PM, Ted Bryant wrote:
> So, how do you avoid the truncation?

tinyurl.com? There are others

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

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Ted Bryant

Re: another contesting how-to question

Thanks, Fred. Let's try it out.

N1MM documentation on radio control interfacing:

http://tinyurl.com/6ngd9xp

73, Ted W4NZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Fred Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 7:16 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] another contesting how-to question

On 2/14/2012 4:08 PM, Ted Bryant wrote:
> So, how do you avoid the truncation?

tinyurl.com? There are others

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

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Julius Fazekas n2wn

Re: another contesting how-to question

In reply to this post by NW0M

With N1MM??

or do you log another way?

Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://k4tcg.org/ http://groups.google.com/group/tcg1?hl=en Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3/100 #

From: WD0ECO [via Elecraft] <[hidden email]>
To: Julius Fazekas n2wn <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: another contesting how-to question

Julius Fazekas n2wn wrote

Tim,

Winkeyer is a great piece of equipment and was needed for the K2 after some changes to N1MM years back, due to timing issues.

For the K3, you do not "need" Winkeyer at all, and we're talking up to 40 WPM. You do need two ports. You can use the LPT port or USB to Serial adapter from your computer, or there are serial add-on cards to be had. N1MM generates CW.

You will need to build/buy a very simple serial port keying interface to key the K3 from the program. It is in the N1MM start document, and I see there are a couple folks who have built little boards for CW/PTT/FSK for this purpose.

Winkeyer may be a cost effective option, if you don't have a usable second port option.

I traded my last built Winkeyer for an un-built kit and some aluminum tubing. The keyer is still unbuilt. The aluminum is in 40M vertical form ;o)

Check the getting started with N1MM document, it explains a lot of this in easy to read details. One of the better start=up guides I've seen...

GL in ARRL DX CW!

73,
Julius
n2wn

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Julius Fazekas
N2WN

Tennessee Contest Group
http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

Tennessee QSO Party
http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2 #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366
Elecraft K3/100