auto-tuner needs more radio output to tune

[Julie Royster]

The LDG tech support folks say that a 5-watt KX3 output is not enough to
trigger tuning by their product.
We will eventually have the Elecraft tuner for KX3 when it ships, but for
now what selection of modes & power etc on KX3 would give me the
highest-wattage signal for the autotuner?  If I understand it correctly, PSK
and CW are limited to 5 watts by the KX3, right?  
THANKS in advance!
Julie KT4JR
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[Neal Enault]

Just switched to the KX3 internal ATU, but I had been using 5W to tune a Z-11Pro with no problems.
 
Neal WA6OCP
 

________________________________
 From: Julie Royster <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 10:01 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] auto-tuner needs more radio output to tune
 

The LDG tech support folks say that a 5-watt KX3 output is not enough to
trigger tuning by their product.
We will eventually have the Elecraft tuner for KX3 when it ships, but for
now what selection of modes & power etc on KX3 would give me the
highest-wattage signal for the autotuner?  If I understand it correctly, PSK
and CW are limited to 5 watts by the KX3, right? 
THANKS in advance!
Julie KT4JR
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[g0hww]

I'm using 1 watt to tune a Z11-Pro.

Darren, G0HWW
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[Dave-5]

Sorry, I probably missed some previous discussion, but I too have LDG auto
tuners and one of them needed more than 5W to operate it (In fact that unit
is dead at the moment, I changed the microprocessor and all was OK until I
left it on the shelf for a few months and now it doesn't work anymore).
However, I would have thought that the one designed to be used with the
FT-817 should work with the KX3 as that Yaesu model is a 5W output rig as
well.  I can't say for certain, as I've never used a Z-11, but it would seem
logical.  Unless the Z-11 interfaces to the FT-817 via command lines other
than just RF output?

That can be a problem I know, as I also have an LDG KT-100 which I sometimes
use with my Kenwood TS-2000X and that uses control lines from the Kenwood to
get information that it needs in order to operate correctly.

To be frank, I've not had much luck with auto tuners.  They either seem to
just be designed to match out the slight discrepancy between "50 ohm"
outputs and supposedly resonant antennas, or they give up the ghost when you
upgrade them (no offence meant to Elecraft, I've not used their tuners.  In
fact I decided to avoid using an intenal tuner again after recent
experiences).  Even well known designs have their limitations.  I have
Z-Matches from various manufacturers, L and T designs and various other
stuff in storage here that I've tried and found wanting for various reasons.
Some seem to be the ultimate dummy load - 50 ohm resistive input but little
real output.  Again, I am not talking about any Elecraft designs here, but
if you look around the literature and dig under the hype, you begin to
wonder what is really going on.

Dave (G0DJA)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Royster" Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 5:01 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] auto-tuner needs more radio output to tune


> The LDG tech support folks say that a 5-watt KX3 output is not enough to
> trigger tuning by their product.
> We will eventually have the Elecraft tuner for KX3 when it ships, but for
> now what selection of modes & power etc on KX3 would give me the
> highest-wattage signal for the autotuner?  If I understand it correctly,
> PSK
> and CW are limited to 5 watts by the KX3, right?
> THANKS in advance!
> Julie KT4JR

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[pa0pje]

Dave,
I have a tuner in my K2 (built in 2005 KAT-2) and one in my KX3. they
never failed and in most if not all cases I was able to tune various
pieces of wire tossed in trees to dipoles, resonant or not.
These tuners are very unlike the "YaeComWood-tuners" you mentioned and
do tune vast ranges of impedances.

Cheers!

Peter

Dave schreef:
> In fact I decided to avoid using an intenal tuner again after recent
> experiences).
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Julie,

The KX3 power in CW and data modes is *not* limited to 5 watts (except
when running it on internal batteries).
I believe the solution to your problem can be found in the TUN PWR menu
parameter - see page 40 of the manual.  The power level set there will
be transmitted when you do a TUNE (not an ATU TUNE). Yours is most
likely set to NOR for which the TUNE power is the same as the power knob.

TUNE will send a carrier (CW) no matter what mode the KX3 is set to.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/13/2013 1:01 PM, Julie Royster wrote:
> The LDG tech support folks say that a 5-watt KX3 output is not enough to
> trigger tuning by their product.
> We will eventually have the Elecraft tuner for KX3 when it ships, but for
> now what selection of modes & power etc on KX3 would give me the
> highest-wattage signal for the autotuner?  If I understand it correctly, PSK
> and CW are limited to 5 watts by the KX3, right?
>

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[Andrew Catanzaro]

The LDG Z-11, Z-11Pro, and RT-11 have all tuned successfully over the
years with the output of my 3-watt Sierra and my 2-4 watt KX1, let alone
my Herculean KX3.  I'm not sure where the LDG folks are coming from in
their comment about needing a higher power for their units to tune.  
That's one of the parameters that has caused me to chose LDG products
over the years as opposed to SGC.

I tried several years ago to convince Wayne of the utility of offering a
remote antenna tuner with the Elecraft name on it.  The T1 doesn't quite
fill the bill.  Something that's weather resistant and that will run on
internal batteries.  150 watt capability with SWR's as high as 10:1.  
Option of coax or single post voltage output, similar to the Icom AH-4.  
Autosense high SWR's and tune functions.  I'd buy one in a minute as I
enjoy Elecraft's quality and creative products.

I have my "coffee table special" QRP station in the middle of the family
room.  A Rose Kopp radio cover decreases the visual impact when not in
use.  A coax cable to the far side of the room energizes an LDG-Z11Pro
and that feeds a balun connecting ladderline out the basement window to
a 234' loop around the house.  Autotuning is truly automatic and I'm on
the air with no fuss 160 through 10 meters without getting out of a chair.

There's something appealing about the above station on a night I don't
feel like wandering over to the shack and firing up the big rig!  I also
run the Z11Pro with internal batteries when I'm the DX in Bonaire,
Curacao, and operating in the field in Wisconsin.  It's easier to run
coax to a non-resonant multiband antenna than ladderline.

73,

Andy W9NJY
Milwaukee


Julie, The KX3 power in CW and data modes is *not* limited to 5 watts
(except when running it on internal batteries). I believe the solution
to your problem can be found in the TUN PWR menu parameter - see page 40
of the manual. The power level set there will be transmitted when you do
a TUNE (not an ATU TUNE). Yours is most likely set to NOR for which the
TUNE power is the same as the power knob. TUNE will send a carrier (CW)
no matter what mode the KX3 is set to. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/13/2013 1:01
PM, Julie Royster wrote:

> The LDG tech support folks say that a 5-watt KX3 output is not enough to
> trigger tuning by their product.
> We will eventually have the Elecraft tuner for KX3 when it ships, but for
> now what selection of modes & power etc on KX3 would give me the
> highest-wattage signal for the autotuner?  If I understand it correctly, PSK
> and CW are limited to 5 watts by the KX3, right?
>

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[Bill Frantz]

I also think a tuner designed to be placed at the antenna feed
point is a good idea. Power over the coax to the station would
eliminate the need to lower the antenna to change batteries. For
a real Elecraft tuner, it would communicate over the coax with a
box in the station which would talk to Elecraft rigs and to
produce the functionality of a on-board tuner or the KAT500.

(A separate comm line would be OK, but I'm going for maximum elegance.)

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 10/15/13 at 6:20 AM, [hidden email] (Andrew Catanzaro) wrote:

>I tried several years ago to convince Wayne of the utility of
>offering a remote antenna tuner with the Elecraft name on it.  
>The T1 doesn't quite fill the bill.  Something that's weather
>resistant and that will run on internal batteries.  150 watt
>capability with SWR's as high as 10:1.  Option of coax or
>single post voltage output, similar to the Icom AH-4.  
>Autosense high SWR's and tune functions.  I'd buy one in a
>minute as I enjoy Elecraft's quality and creative products.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        | Re: Computer reliability, performance, and security:
408-356-8506       | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is
*not* the
www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground.  - Terence Kelly

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[David Christ]

The SGC 230 is well regarded but has serious power limitations.  It is rated at 200 W PEP and only 80 W continuous (RTTY).  The K3 alone can exceed these power limits on RTTY.  And furthermore it is inadequate for use with the KPA500.

The MFJ-998RT claims to handle the power but the reviews on eHam are much less than glowing.  So it seems that a remote tuner the quality of the KAT500 (possibly based on it) would fill a need not currently being met.

I have severe space limitations so low band dipole and verticals with radials are not an option.  I really need a decent remote tuner

If Elecraft ever markets such an item you will find me near the front of the line

David K0LUM


On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:32 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> While an Elecraft product would have appeal, the SGC230 fits that bill
> without batteries and has a long history of reliable operation in very
> severe environments such as on board ships where it's enveloped in corrosive
> stack gasses and doused with sea water regularly, baked under tropical suns
> and frozen with coats of polar ice.
>
> Not much interface needed. IIRC, it tunes when commanded (or SWR exceeds a
> threshold) and remembers settings. You know it is working because the SWR on
> the coax is low at the rig, which means it's providing a 50 ohm non-reactive
> load at the antenna end.
>
> I worked with a lot of them on ships in the early 1990's where they were
> used primarily at the base of a 22 foot whip to load it up on the SSB marine
> distress frequency of 2182 kHz. At 100 watts, that was really pushing them
> hard because of the very short radiator for that frequency, but they worked
> FB in that service.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC

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[NY6C]

I have the MFJ-998RT and use it everyday with an Alpha (and my K3). When I first got the tuner I tested it in the shack with 20 second key downs at 1.5KW into the dummy load. I had the cover off so I could feel how warm it was getting - no issues at all. It's been a very good tuner for me. It's best to setup the memories for your particular antenna ahead of time before you put the cover on and leave it. You can manually tweak the SWR to 'dial it in' and then record that setting. In the future it will quickly tune to that spot without doing any searching for a match. I've even thought about buying a second one.

-Greg NY6C

On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:24 PM, David Christ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The SGC 230 is well regarded but has serious power limitations.  It is rated at 200 W PEP and only 80 W continuous (RTTY).  The K3 alone can exceed these power limits on RTTY.  And furthermore it is inadequate for use with the KPA500.
>
> The MFJ-998RT claims to handle the power but the reviews on eHam are much less than glowing.  So it seems that a remote tuner the quality of the KAT500 (possibly based on it) would fill a need not currently being met.
>
> I have severe space limitations so low band dipole and verticals with radials are not an option.  I really need a decent remote tuner
>
> If Elecraft ever markets such an item you will find me near the front of the line
>
> David K0LUM
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:32 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>
>> While an Elecraft product would have appeal, the SGC230 fits that bill
>> without batteries and has a long history of reliable operation in very
>> severe environments such as on board ships where it's enveloped in corrosive
>> stack gasses and doused with sea water regularly, baked under tropical suns
>> and frozen with coats of polar ice.
>>
>> Not much interface needed. IIRC, it tunes when commanded (or SWR exceeds a
>> threshold) and remembers settings. You know it is working because the SWR on
>> the coax is low at the rig, which means it's providing a 50 ohm non-reactive
>> load at the antenna end.
>>
>> I worked with a lot of them on ships in the early 1990's where they were
>> used primarily at the base of a 22 foot whip to load it up on the SSB marine
>> distress frequency of 2182 kHz. At 100 watts, that was really pushing them
>> hard because of the very short radiator for that frequency, but they worked
>> FB in that service.
>>
>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

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[Julie Royster]

THANKS to each of the kind folks who let me know that KX3 power can go to 10
watts for tuning using CW or FM.
Evidently I had misunderstood some earlier list content about PSK being
limited to 5 watts.
I appreciate the feedback!
Julie KT4JR
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[dw-4]

I had the SGC 100 watt unit for many years feeding a classic 130'
doublet.
Upgraded to the 500 watt model 3 years ago.

Both of them take around 6 seconds to find sweet spot with this antenna
with 15 watts applied from the K2/qrp.
160m to 10m



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