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kpa1500?

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CenturyLink Customer

kpa1500?

As a 6 month Elecrafter (k3+p3) I have never seen any discussion nor requests for a legal limit compatible Elecraft amplifier with the seamless attributes of the kpa500 . It would seem that the now extablished 1000 w devices could form the basis for a commercially viable amplifier. Perhaps no one else is interested, but I wanted to ask if such a product is even on the "consideration" list?

Myron

W7LXN
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Richard Thorne-4

Re: kpa1500?

I'd be a buyer.

Rich - N5ZC

On 12/12/2014 6:17 PM, CenturyLink Customer wrote:

>
> As a 6 month Elecrafter (k3+p3) I have never seen any discussion nor requests for a legal limit compatible Elecraft amplifier with the seamless attributes of the kpa500 . It would seem that the now extablished 1000 w devices could form the basis for a commercially viable amplifier. Perhaps no one else is interested, but I wanted to ask if such a product is even on the "consideration" list?
>
>
>
> Myron
>
> W7LXN
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Phil Hystad-3

Re: kpa1500?

As others have mentioned, there were two amps built and put on display a number of years
ago. One was legal limit and I think the other was about half that (I remember more than the
current 500 Watt KPA500 though).

I probably would never spend the money for a full legal limit solid-state amp but I might pay
for a kit amp. By "kit" I mean more of a kit than typical of Elecraft's bolt-together kits. I mean
a real soldering kit with some SMTs already placed. Especially useful would be the PA boards and
heat sinks already put together. But, other parts could certainly be lower level kit pieces. Also,
the voltage levels are not too dangerously high (? 75 volts, 40 amps maybe). Maybe the power
supply can be a separately priced kit.

Not even sure how much I would pay -- I wouldn't want ham radio to cut into my book buying budget
for the year. Also, ham radio competes with my other hobby of wood working. Those Shapton glass
bottom sharpening stones are getting pricey.

73, phil, K7PEH

> On Dec 12, 2014, at 4:58 PM, Richard Thorne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'd be a buyer.
>
> Rich - N5ZC
>
> On 12/12/2014 6:17 PM, CenturyLink Customer wrote:
>>
>> As a 6 month Elecrafter (k3+p3) I have never seen any discussion nor requests for a legal limit compatible Elecraft amplifier with the seamless attributes of the kpa500 . It would seem that the now extablished 1000 w devices could form the basis for a commercially viable amplifier. Perhaps no one else is interested, but I wanted to ask if such a product is even on the "consideration" list?
>>
>>
>>
>> Myron
>>
>> W7LXN
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>>
>
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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: kpa1500?

Other issues, too. For example, not all of us have
240 VAC available in our shacks -- at least I
don't. And I suspect such an amp would want the
higher line voltage.

Phil W7OX

On 12/12/14 6:06 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

> As others have mentioned, there were two amps built and put on display a number of years
> ago. One was legal limit and I think the other was about half that (I remember more than the
> current 500 Watt KPA500 though).
>
> I probably would never spend the money for a full legal limit solid-state amp but I might pay
> for a kit amp. By "kit" I mean more of a kit than typical of Elecraft's bolt-together kits. I mean
> a real soldering kit with some SMTs already placed. Especially useful would be the PA boards and
> heat sinks already put together. But, other parts could certainly be lower level kit pieces. Also,
> the voltage levels are not too dangerously high (? 75 volts, 40 amps maybe). Maybe the power
> supply can be a separately priced kit.
>
> Not even sure how much I would pay -- I wouldn't want ham radio to cut into my book buying budget
> for the year. Also, ham radio competes with my other hobby of wood working. Those Shapton glass
> bottom sharpening stones are getting pricey.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>> On Dec 12, 2014, at 4:58 PM, Richard Thorne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'd be a buyer.
>>
>> Rich - N5ZC
>>
>> On 12/12/2014 6:17 PM, CenturyLink Customer wrote:
>>> As a 6 month Elecrafter (k3+p3) I have never seen any discussion nor requests for a legal limit compatible Elecraft amplifier with the seamless attributes of the kpa500 . It would seem that the now extablished 1000 w devices could form the basis for a commercially viable amplifier. Perhaps no one else is interested, but I wanted to ask if such a product is even on the "consideration" list?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Myron
>>>
>>> W7LXN

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: kpa1500?

> And I suspect such an amp would want the higher line voltage.

It's not a matter of "wanting" a higher line voltage ... you simply
can't pull enough current through a typical 120V circuit to provide
enough power for a 1600W *output* amplifier. Such an amplifier is
going to need about 4 KVA or around 35 A *average* and much higher
peaks even with a power factor corrected switching supply. The
120V wiring in your shack is certainly not up to that level ... nor
are the breakers, circuit panel, etc.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-12-12 9:19 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:

> Other issues, too. For example, not all of us have 240 VAC available in
> our shacks -- at least I don't. And I suspect such an amp would want the
> higher line voltage.
>
> Phil W7OX
>
> On 12/12/14 6:06 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> As others have mentioned, there were two amps built and put on display
>> a number of years
>> ago. One was legal limit and I think the other was about half that (I
>> remember more than the
>> current 500 Watt KPA500 though).
>>
>> I probably would never spend the money for a full legal limit
>> solid-state amp but I might pay
>> for a kit amp. By "kit" I mean more of a kit than typical of
>> Elecraft's bolt-together kits. I mean
>> a real soldering kit with some SMTs already placed. Especially useful
>> would be the PA boards and
>> heat sinks already put together. But, other parts could certainly be
>> lower level kit pieces. Also,
>> the voltage levels are not too dangerously high (? 75 volts, 40 amps
>> maybe). Maybe the power
>> supply can be a separately priced kit.
>>
>> Not even sure how much I would pay -- I wouldn't want ham radio to cut
>> into my book buying budget
>> for the year. Also, ham radio competes with my other hobby of wood
>> working. Those Shapton glass
>> bottom sharpening stones are getting pricey.
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>
>>> On Dec 12, 2014, at 4:58 PM, Richard Thorne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd be a buyer.
>>>
>>> Rich - N5ZC
>>>
>>> On 12/12/2014 6:17 PM, CenturyLink Customer wrote:
>>>> As a 6 month Elecrafter (k3+p3) I have never seen any discussion nor
>>>> requests for a legal limit compatible Elecraft amplifier with the
>>>> seamless attributes of the kpa500 . It would seem that the now
>>>> extablished 1000 w devices could form the basis for a commercially
>>>> viable amplifier. Perhaps no one else is interested, but I wanted to
>>>> ask if such a product is even on the "consideration" list?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Myron
>>>>
>>>> W7LXN
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

Gary K9GS

Re: kpa1500?

In reply to this post by Richard Thorne-4

Count me in

On 12/12/2014 6:58 PM, Richard Thorne wrote:

> I'd be a buyer.
>
> Rich - N5ZC
>
> On 12/12/2014 6:17 PM, CenturyLink Customer wrote:
>>
>> As a 6 month Elecrafter (k3+p3) I have never seen any discussion nor
>> requests for a legal limit compatible Elecraft amplifier with the
>> seamless attributes of the kpa500 . It would seem that the now
>> extablished 1000 w devices could form the basis for a commercially
>> viable amplifier. Perhaps no one else is interested, but I wanted to
>> ask if such a product is even on the "consideration" list?
>>
>>
>>
>> Myron
>>
>> W7LXN
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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>
>
> --
> 73,
>
> Gary K9GS
>
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
> CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org
>
> ************************************************

Bob-5

Re: kpa1500?

I have in the past suggested a 1500 watt amplifier constructed in 500 watt
modules.

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Count me in
>
>
>
> On 12/12/2014 6:58 PM, Richard Thorne wrote:
>
>> I'd be a buyer.
>>
>> Rich - N5ZC
>>
>> On 12/12/2014 6:17 PM, CenturyLink Customer wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> As a 6 month Elecrafter (k3+p3) I have never seen any discussion nor
>>> requests for a legal limit compatible Elecraft amplifier with the seamless
>>> attributes of the kpa500 . It would seem that the now extablished 1000 w
>>> devices could form the basis for a commercially viable amplifier. Perhaps
>>> no one else is interested, but I wanted to ask if such a product is even on
>>> the "consideration" list?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Myron
>>>
>>> W7LXN
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73,
>>
>> Gary K9GS
>>
>> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
>> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>> CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org
>>
>> ************************************************
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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>

Phil Wheeler-2

Re: kpa1500?

A Troika? Interesting concept.

Phil W7OX

On 12/12/14 6:57 PM, Bob wrote:

> I have in the past suggested a 1500 watt amplifier constructed in 500 watt
> modules.
>
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Count me in
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/12/2014 6:58 PM, Richard Thorne wrote:
>>
>>> I'd be a buyer.
>>>
>>> Rich - N5ZC
>>>
>>> On 12/12/2014 6:17 PM, CenturyLink Customer wrote:
>>>
>>>> As a 6 month Elecrafter (k3+p3) I have never seen any discussion nor
>>>> requests for a legal limit compatible Elecraft amplifier with the seamless
>>>> attributes of the kpa500 . It would seem that the now extablished 1000 w
>>>> devices could form the basis for a commercially viable amplifier. Perhaps
>>>> no one else is interested, but I wanted to ask if such a product is even on
>>>> the "consideration" list?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Myron
>>>>
>>>> W7LXN
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Gary K9GS
>>>
>>> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
>>> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>>> CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org
>>>
>>> ************************************************
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim Wiley

Re: kpa1500?

In reply to this post by Bob-5

Check the ACOM website. They have a setup that uses a hybrid coupler to
parallel 3 of their ACOM 2000A amplifiers. I know from experience that
an ACOM 2000A will deliver about 2300 watts forward power before it
kicks off on excess grid current. It would do more if the guard circuit
was readjusted, but what's the point? I think that setup is for their
Italian customers. 6000 watts is a full S-unit above a 1500 watt rig.

- Jim, KL7CC

On 12/12/2014 5:57 PM, Bob wrote:

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: kpa1500?

In reply to this post by Bob-5

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Bob <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have in the past suggested a 1500 watt amplifier constructed in 500 watt
> modules.
>

A while back someone talked about a way to put three KPA 500's (or two) in
parallel and still force equal power out of the individual amps. Buy three
KPA 500's, buy the combiner circuit made for them, and crank away. Where
did that idea disappear to?

But that still is 6K bux plus the combiner stuff.

Kind of get the idea that the problem of the missing 1500 watt amp has
something to do with price point for an amp that is brick-on-key reliable
and seamlessly integrates as does the KPA500. And then there would have to
be a KAT1500 to go with it. That last is a designer's nightmare that is
torturing more than one company trying to get a reliable ham price point
unit out there that can stand the kinds of things hams do to them.

It's like the whole problem shifts into some higher gear around 1000 watts
RTTY, and the price change for higher capacity is anything but a linear
relation to the power output.

The Ameritron ALS-1300 (PEP for SSB voice duty cycle only) is the power out
equivalent of a KPA800, if you look at actual CW and RTTY output.

1500 watts brick-on-key you have to go to the big Alpha's, like my 8410,
and other close equivalents where you have to read the fine print very
carefully.

KPA500 was below the 1000 watt price explosion point, used some reasonably
priced very reliable finals in a simple configuration, could be put in a K3
case, including its power supply, and a matching antenna tuner was well
below the point where reliability required vacuum variables (600 bux plus
each for units NEWLY manufactured to spec) and mechanical driver circuitry
to adjust them.

Friend of mine sold his Acom 2000, went to a K-line plus a pair of
KAT500's. He doesn't miss the extra 1000 watts. I'm keeping my 8410, but I
know where he's coming from. He's 7 dB over barefoot, I'm 12 dB. Two
stations with only one S-unit difference headed to the antennas will always
come down to antenna systems and operators.

Operators making the difference? Remember that there is a potential 27 dB
gain between the ears. Or stated differently, a LID operating a QRO station
with big antennas could be beaten in a pile-up by a maxi-operator running 5
or 10 watts with big antennas.

73, Guy.
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Jim Brown-10

Re: kpa1500?

On Fri,12/12/2014 10:00 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> Two
> stations with only one S-unit difference headed to the antennas will always
> come down to antenna systems and operators.

Several comments. First, while the "official" definition of an S-unit is
6dB, one S-unit on most receivers is more like 3-4 dB. While I haven't
done a linearity test on the K3 S-meter, I suspect it's a bit better.
Second, our contest club's leading statistician, N6ZFO, did an analysis
of our ARRL Sweepstakes scores and came to the conclusion that 3 dB was
worth about 8% in the score of THAT contest. Those dB can come from a
lot of places -- power amps, feedlines, antennas, and even QTH. I've run
Field Day QRP from a 5,000 ft peak, where I can hold a run frequency
with 5 W -- nothing like a 5,000 ft tower!

Third, a dB or two is a very big deal when conditions are marginal (for
example, the other guy has RX noise). From my own personal experience,
I've many MANY marginal QSOs by increasing my output power by 2 dB (by
retuning the rig after a wide QSY).

Bottom line -- I'll take my dB any way I can get them, and I'll take all
I can get. My "weekday" amp is a KPA500, but my weekend (contesting)
amps are '80s vintage legal limit Ten Tec Titans, The latest improvement
in my shack was adding an LP100A wattmeter that reads true peak power.
Because it's more accurate than the other wattmeters (SWR indicators,
built into rigs) that has allowed me to operate 1-2 dB closer to the
legal limit.

73, Jim K9YC
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Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: kpa1500?

Well, I'm with you, but the dB's you are referencing have to be *radiated*
power in the needed direction and elevation. I have worked with hams with
wonderful, immaculate stations that made errors in the antenna system that
cost them a lot if not most of what they sent toward the antenna. This is
particularly true on the low bands, and most particularly true on 160.

As to LIDs, some of the operating I've heard could not be rescued by any
amount of effective radiated power. When one is transmitting on top of the
DX one is trying to work, nothing good is going to happen. Or a loud
station is consistently calling on frequency when the DX is listening UP,
despite numerous urges on frequency to go UP. Or.... The list is long.

Given who your club is, the universe of scores in use by your stat guy is a
special case on the good side, that's for sure. I would never expect to see
that result at large.

73, Guy.

On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> On Fri,12/12/2014 10:00 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>
>> Two
>> stations with only one S-unit difference headed to the antennas will
>> always
>> come down to antenna systems and operators.
>>
>
> Several comments. First, while the "official" definition of an S-unit is
> 6dB, one S-unit on most receivers is more like 3-4 dB. While I haven't done
> a linearity test on the K3 S-meter, I suspect it's a bit better.
> Second, our contest club's leading statistician, N6ZFO, did an analysis of
> our ARRL Sweepstakes scores and came to the conclusion that 3 dB was worth
> about 8% in the score of THAT contest. Those dB can come from a lot of
> places -- power amps, feedlines, antennas, and even QTH. I've run Field Day
> QRP from a 5,000 ft peak, where I can hold a run frequency with 5 W --
> nothing like a 5,000 ft tower!
>
>
> Third, a dB or two is a very big deal when conditions are marginal (for
> example, the other guy has RX noise). From my own personal experience, I've
> many MANY marginal QSOs by increasing my output power by 2 dB (by retuning
> the rig after a wide QSY).
>
> Bottom line -- I'll take my dB any way I can get them, and I'll take all I
> can get. My "weekday" amp is a KPA500, but my weekend (contesting) amps are
> '80s vintage legal limit Ten Tec Titans, The latest improvement in my shack
> was adding an LP100A wattmeter that reads true peak power. Because it's
> more accurate than the other wattmeters (SWR indicators, built into rigs)
> that has allowed me to operate 1-2 dB closer to the legal limit.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: kpa1500?

On Fri,12/12/2014 10:41 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> Given who your club is, the universe of scores in use by your stat guy
> is a special case on the good side, that's for sure. I would never
> expect to see that result at large.

Obviously, this is an "all things being equal" sort of analysis. Given a
good operator, what's a dB worth.

I've since done some analysis of antenna system design, and answered the
question, what is 10 ft worth?

http://k9yc.com/VertOrHorizontal-Slides.pdf Many may be surprised by
the results. I wanted to answer the question, If I pay tree climbers
$800 to raise my 80/40 dipoles 30 ft, what does that buy me? You
probably will not. :)

A real world answer -- in one weekend, three new band countries on both
80M and on 40M when I already had 195 on 80 and 245 on 40M.

73, Jim K9YC

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Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: kpa1500?

In reply to this post by Richard Thorne-4

One existed, in prototype form, and one of the testers told me that a
few were in the field for testing. It was shown at Dayton at least one
year, maybe 10 years ago now. I suspect it used many of the transistors
then available.

Did you guys notice that the amp in the latest QST cost $4500 for parts
- of course, it was two 1.25 KW RF decks in one box, so the cost for a
160-6M legal limit amp might be similar. Still, when you're cranking
out KX3s and K3s and P3s and KPA500s the way they are, does it make
sense to build up production facilities for a couple of hundred amps a year?

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 12/12/2014 7:58 PM, Richard Thorne wrote:

Vic Rosenthal

Re: kpa1500?

There was a KPA1500 and KPA800 shown at Visalia one year. I saw the 1500 in action, connected to a keyer sending an endless loop into a dummy load at full power. I was told later that there was no problem with performance or FCC specs. They simply wanted to concentrate their resources into the K3, which had just come out. The projected price, though, was WAY above $5000.

When they came up for air after selling a gazillion K3's, they apparently decided that an amplifier the same size as the K3 that could run on 120V and sell for less than a king's ransom was a better product. I have heard that a prototype KPA1500 is in the shack of a loud ham in California.

Vic K2VCO/4X6GP

> On Dec 13, 2014, at 12:58 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> One existed, in prototype form, and one of the testers told me that a few were in the field for testing. It was shown at Dayton at least one year, maybe 10 years ago now. I suspect it used many of the transistors then available.
>
> Did you guys notice that the amp in the latest QST cost $4500 for parts - of course, it was two 1.25 KW RF decks in one box, so the cost for a 160-6M legal limit amp might be similar. Still, when you're cranking out KX3s and K3s and P3s and KPA500s the way they are, does it make sense to build up production facilities for a couple of hundred amps a year?
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
> http://reversebeacon.net,
> blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
> For spots, please go to your favorite
> ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.
>
>> On 12/12/2014 7:58 PM, Richard Thorne wrote:
>> I'd be a buyer.
>>
>> Rich - N5ZC
>>
>>> On 12/12/2014 6:17 PM, CenturyLink Customer wrote:
>>>
>>> As a 6 month Elecrafter (k3+p3) I have never seen any discussion nor requests for a legal limit compatible Elecraft amplifier with the seamless attributes of the kpa500 . It would seem that the now extablished 1000 w devices could form the basis for a commercially viable amplifier. Perhaps no one else is interested, but I wanted to ask if such a product is even on the "consideration" list?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Myron
>>>
>>> W7LXN
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Wes (N7WS)

Re: kpa1500?

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Congratulations, but do you believe that you would have not worked them with the
antenna 30 feet lower?

Wes N7WS

On 12/13/2014 12:44 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> [snip]
>
> http://k9yc.com/VertOrHorizontal-Slides.pdf Many may be surprised by the
> results. I wanted to answer the question, If I pay tree climbers $800 to raise
> my 80/40 dipoles 30 ft, what does that buy me? You probably will not. :)
>
> A real world answer -- in one weekend, three new band countries on both 80M
> and on 40M when I already had 195 on 80 and 245 on 40M.
>
>

w7aqk

Re: kpa1500?

In reply to this post by CenturyLink Customer

Yes, Elecraft did have two prototypes fairly early on--a model "800", and a
larger model "1600", or something close to that nomenclature wise. I saw
them both at Pacificon one year, and they looked very nice. I think this
was an "Eric" project, so you probably need to speak to him as to whether or
not they might ever revive the larger amp project.

I don't know exactly what stunted the further development of these amps at
the time, but I can guess! Obviously, we eventually got a 500 watt amp,
which is a very nice fit for a lot of us. This is probably a pared down
version, but refined also, of the model 800.

I have no doubt that Elecraft could successfully produce a KW, or KW+ amp.
However, the problems of doing so are clearly substantial. As many "voices"
as we always hear asking for such a model, you might think it would be a big
success. However, a very big stumbling block would probably be price! Such
an amp would not be cheap, and I suspect it would be well beyond the budget
of a great many who would otherwise want one. As the market potential for
something like this goes down due to pricing, the pricing actually goes up
to make up some of the shortfall (and recover the development costs, etc.).
So, the ultimate price can seem inordinately high.

Then you have the plethora of issues that higher power causes. How many
prospective purchasers would have to rewire their shacks for 240 volts? How
do you keep these big gun amps "clean" spec wise? Etc. Etc.

What I'm not sure of is whether or not Elecraft could sufficiently
differentiate their big amp from those that are already out there. I can
imagine there would be a heck of a lot of "nit-picking" about this or that,
and it would be a real headache.

This high power stuff is a whole different ballgame from what I think the
focus of Elecraft has generally been so far. There are several companies
out there that concentrate on nothing else. Even though they are capable of
it, I'm not sure Elecraft wants to divert their attention this much to
effectively do battle in that arena. Besides, I get a very strong
impression that they already have more than enough ideas in their heads to
keep them busy for a long time to come. They can't do everything, nor do
they want to.

Dave W7AQK

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Edward R Cole

Re: kpa1500?

In reply to this post by CenturyLink Customer

I did not have 240vac into my shack, either, but needed it to run my
2m-8877 at 1500w, so.... I ran a 35-foot run of No.-8 3-conductor
plus No. 12 ground which I bought at HomeDepot. I also bought a
60amp service box and a 240v 30A twist-lock receptacle and plug (for
my 8877 HVPS connection). I threw the master breaker at the meter to
wire it in on the hot side of my home load box. I broke out two 120v
20A ckts to supply my shack along with 240v 20A to the amplifier.

Now maybe many of you are adverse to working on your own or concerned
about IBEW suing you? I just did it. Of course I had a full summer
working as electrician's helper when I was in college, working with
as high as 440v 500a service in industrial settings, so I knew
roughly what to do.

In the same vein I installed my cut-over switch for my 6500w Honda
Generator using the same No. 8 cable in a conduit. I did have the
power company shut down my service for an hour to do the cut over wiring.

Re: solid-state QRO, the Freescale LDMOS device is rated at 1200w and
is nearly indestructable. Many are being built for up to 1296 mostly
for eme. M2 has one for sale on 2m. W6PQL has a line in
production. Communications-Concepts sells a HF amp rated to
1200w. All require 50v at 50amps (which is 2500VA and requires 240v
as primary).

I would suggest that Elecraft determined that they would not be
competitive in that market along with all the other players. I think
Ameritron just announced an entry in that category and pretty sure
Alpha has one.

I have two amplifier kits I bought from Comm-Concepts: 300w and 140w
and spent about $500 on each. Works well for me. Someday it would
be nice to have the KPA500 for all its bells and whistles. But not
high on my list.

73, Ed - KL7UW

------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 18:19:53 -0800
From: Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] kpa1500?
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Other issues, too. For example, not all of us have
240 VAC available in our shacks -- at least I
don't. And I suspect such an amp would want the
higher line voltage.

Phil W7OX

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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Dr. William J. Schmidt, II

Re: kpa1500?

In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV

I did it. It works fine.

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ-J68HZ-8P6HK-ZF2HZ-PJ4/K9HZ-VP5/K9HZ-PJ2/K9HZ

Owner - Operator
Big Signal Ranch
Staunton, Illinois

email: [hidden email]

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Guy
Olinger K2AV
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 12:01 AM
To: Bob
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] kpa1500?

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Bob <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have in the past suggested a 1500 watt amplifier constructed in 500
watt
> modules.
>

A while back someone talked about a way to put three KPA 500's (or two) in
parallel and still force equal power out of the individual amps. Buy three
KPA 500's, buy the combiner circuit made for them, and crank away. Where
did that idea disappear to?

But that still is 6K bux plus the combiner stuff.

Kind of get the idea that the problem of the missing 1500 watt amp has
something to do with price point for an amp that is brick-on-key reliable
and seamlessly integrates as does the KPA500. And then there would have to
be a KAT1500 to go with it. That last is a designer's nightmare that is
torturing more than one company trying to get a reliable ham price point
unit out there that can stand the kinds of things hams do to them.

It's like the whole problem shifts into some higher gear around 1000 watts
RTTY, and the price change for higher capacity is anything but a linear
relation to the power output.

The Ameritron ALS-1300 (PEP for SSB voice duty cycle only) is the power out
equivalent of a KPA800, if you look at actual CW and RTTY output.

1500 watts brick-on-key you have to go to the big Alpha's, like my 8410,
and other close equivalents where you have to read the fine print very
carefully.

KPA500 was below the 1000 watt price explosion point, used some reasonably
priced very reliable finals in a simple configuration, could be put in a K3
case, including its power supply, and a matching antenna tuner was well
below the point where reliability required vacuum variables (600 bux plus
each for units NEWLY manufactured to spec) and mechanical driver circuitry
to adjust them.

Friend of mine sold his Acom 2000, went to a K-line plus a pair of
KAT500's. He doesn't miss the extra 1000 watts. I'm keeping my 8410, but I
know where he's coming from. He's 7 dB over barefoot, I'm 12 dB. Two
stations with only one S-unit difference headed to the antennas will always
come down to antenna systems and operators.

Operators making the difference? Remember that there is a potential 27 dB
gain between the ears. Or stated differently, a LID operating a QRO station
with big antennas could be beaten in a pile-up by a maxi-operator running 5
or 10 watts with big antennas.

73, Guy.
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Gary Gregory-2

Re: kpa1500?

Good grief....guessing is becoming a favorite topic on the reflector these
days and somehow morphs into reality.

Would not hold my breath on another amp...some of us are still waiting for
features promised to be implemented in other elecraft products..but what
would i know?

Gary
Vk1ZZ
K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3.
On 14/12/2014 1:20 AM, "Dr. William J. Schmidt, II" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I did it. It works fine.
>
>
> Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ-J68HZ-8P6HK-ZF2HZ-PJ4/K9HZ-VP5/K9HZ-PJ2/K9HZ
>
> Owner - Operator
> Big Signal Ranch
> Staunton, Illinois
>
> email: [hidden email]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Guy
> Olinger K2AV
> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 12:01 AM
> To: Bob
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] kpa1500?
>
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Bob <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I have in the past suggested a 1500 watt amplifier constructed in 500
> watt
> > modules.
> >
>
> A while back someone talked about a way to put three KPA 500's (or two) in
> parallel and still force equal power out of the individual amps. Buy three
> KPA 500's, buy the combiner circuit made for them, and crank away. Where
> did that idea disappear to?
>
> But that still is 6K bux plus the combiner stuff.
>
> Kind of get the idea that the problem of the missing 1500 watt amp has
> something to do with price point for an amp that is brick-on-key reliable
> and seamlessly integrates as does the KPA500. And then there would have to
> be a KAT1500 to go with it. That last is a designer's nightmare that is
> torturing more than one company trying to get a reliable ham price point
> unit out there that can stand the kinds of things hams do to them.
>
> It's like the whole problem shifts into some higher gear around 1000 watts
> RTTY, and the price change for higher capacity is anything but a linear
> relation to the power output.
>
> The Ameritron ALS-1300 (PEP for SSB voice duty cycle only) is the power out
> equivalent of a KPA800, if you look at actual CW and RTTY output.
>
> 1500 watts brick-on-key you have to go to the big Alpha's, like my 8410,
> and other close equivalents where you have to read the fine print very
> carefully.
>
> KPA500 was below the 1000 watt price explosion point, used some reasonably
> priced very reliable finals in a simple configuration, could be put in a K3
> case, including its power supply, and a matching antenna tuner was well
> below the point where reliability required vacuum variables (600 bux plus
> each for units NEWLY manufactured to spec) and mechanical driver circuitry
> to adjust them.
>
> Friend of mine sold his Acom 2000, went to a K-line plus a pair of
> KAT500's. He doesn't miss the extra 1000 watts. I'm keeping my 8410, but I
> know where he's coming from. He's 7 dB over barefoot, I'm 12 dB. Two
> stations with only one S-unit difference headed to the antennas will always
> come down to antenna systems and operators.
>
> Operators making the difference? Remember that there is a potential 27 dB
> gain between the ears. Or stated differently, a LID operating a QRO station
> with big antennas could be beaten in a pile-up by a maxi-operator running 5
> or 10 watts with big antennas.
>
> 73, Guy.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>