re K3 timekeeping
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My K3 clock loses about 9 seconds per day. This is not quite as bad as Arlen's clock, but it is still annoying. I run quite a few skeds and nets and I like to be spot on time.
Dear Wayne, are you listening? We need your help to write a little routine that goes like this:- When the K3 powers up, it reads an eeprom location which stores the last turn-on time. It calculates how long ago that was from the present time. It reads the correction factor in tenths of seconds per 24 hours from another eeprom location. It calculates the correction required in tenths of a second and updates the clock accordingly. It stores the tenths of seconds remainder in another location ready to be taken into account in the next calculation. Finally it updates the last turn-on time. Of course you will realize that an extra menu item will also be needed, so users can enter their clock correction factor. A single byte can store a correction factor from -12.7 to +12.7 seconds per 24 hours. With this software addition, the K3 will become a superb chronometer. Perhaps once a year the user will need to tweak the correction factor to allow for crystal aging in the real-time clock. 73 Roger, VK4YB ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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This is beginning to sound like the saying that the man with two
wristwatches never knows what time it is. Pick a 'time standard' that is appropriate for you - Cellphone time or Atomic clock as your time for skeds (those are quite accurate) as well as the time standard from WWV. The K3 clock can be reserved for those times when access to those other time standard sources are not available (such as Field Day and other similar occasions). The K3 RTC depends on the crystal and the associated capacitors. It is not a precision device, but is more than sufficient for logging purposes for outings where it is the main source of time stamping - assuming it is set correct at the beginning of the outing. My Timex watch seems to be quite accurate - I have not had to reset it in the last 3 months! In other words, I would not depend on the clock in the K3, KX3 or the K2 to be more accurate than my Timex. The need for time precision to the second is overrated IMHO - logging QSOs to the nearest minute seems to be acceptable, accuracy to the second is not required for logging purposes. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/26/2014 6:01 PM, Roger Crofts wrote: > My K3 clock loses about 9 seconds per day. This is not quite as bad as Arlen's clock, but it is still annoying. I run quite a few skeds and nets and I like to be spot on time. > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Roger Crofts
To continue dreaming: Since the K3 is a wide band receiver, it
could also automatically update itself from WWV/CHU/etc. 73 Bill AE6JV On 11/27/14 at 3:01 PM, [hidden email] (Roger Crofts) wrote: >Dear Wayne, are you listening? We need your help to write a little routine that goes like this:- >When the K3 powers up, it reads an eeprom location which stores >the last turn-on time. It calculates how long ago that was from >the present time. It reads the correction factor in tenths of >seconds per 24 hours from another eeprom location. It >calculates the correction required in tenths of a second and >updates the clock accordingly. It stores the tenths of seconds >remainder in another location ready to be taken into account in >the next calculation. Finally it updates the last turn-on time. >Of course you will realize that an extra menu item will also be >needed, so users can enter their clock correction factor. A >single byte can store a correction factor from -12.7 to +12.7 >seconds per 24 hours. >With this software addition, the K3 will become a superb >chronometer. Perhaps once a year the user will need to tweak >the correction factor to allow for crystal aging in the >real-time clock. Bill Frantz | Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten 408-356-8506 | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards. www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
My watch is a Casio Pathfinder (barometer,
altimeter, compass, and even keeps time!). It gets updated every night via Colo WWV station -- unless I turn on my TV converter from Time-Warner; then it does not update, even if the converter is 10 ft away. Phil W7OX On 11/26/14 3:54 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > This is beginning to sound like the saying that > the man with two wristwatches never knows what > time it is. Pick a 'time standard' that is > appropriate for you - Cellphone time or Atomic > clock as your time for skeds (those are quite > accurate) as well as the time standard from > WWV. The K3 clock can be reserved for those > times when access to those other time standard > sources are not available (such as Field Day and > other similar occasions). > > The K3 RTC depends on the crystal and the > associated capacitors. It is not a precision > device, but is more than sufficient for logging > purposes for outings where it is the main source > of time stamping - assuming it is set correct at > the beginning of the outing. > > My Timex watch seems to be quite accurate - I > have not had to reset it in the last 3 months! > In other words, I would not depend on the clock > in the K3, KX3 or the K2 to be more accurate > than my Timex. The need for time precision to > the second is overrated IMHO - logging QSOs to > the nearest minute seems to be acceptable, > accuracy to the second is not required for > logging purposes. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 11/26/2014 6:01 PM, Roger Crofts wrote: >> My K3 clock loses about 9 seconds per day. This >> is not quite as bad as Arlen's clock, but it is >> still annoying. I run quite a few skeds and >> nets and I like to be spot on time. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Next time you have little or nothing to do, and have a P3, set the span
to about 10 KHz, go to AM, and center any of the WWV's in the display. You *should* see: 1. The carrier 2. The 100 Hz subcarrier around it that carries the IRIG-H time code 3. The pair of tone sidebands [if the tone is on]. What you *will* see depends on which WWV you're tuned to. If it's 2.5 or 20 MHz, the above pretty well describes the display. If it's 5, 10, or 15 MHz, you will see: 1. The carrier 2. The 100 Hz IRIG-H subcarrier 3. The pair of tone sidebands 4. The second and third harmonics of the tones, maybe the fourth harmonic depending on conditions and strength of the signal at your QTH 5. The 100 Hz IRIG-H subcarrier around the pair of tone sidebands and all the harmonics. There is a single combined baseband that feeds all transmitters. Apparently, the 2.5 and 20 MHz transmitters are low level modulated with linear amplification. The other three appear to be plate modulated class C PA's right out of the hamshacks of the 50's. The difference is striking and surprising. I've always thought NIST was the Gold Standard. With a single tone modulating my K3 in AM, I see the carrier, the two sidebands, and essentially nothing else on a spectrum analyzer. I sent screen shots and an explanation to WWV, and asked them about the transmitters. The reply said, "We're pretty sure we're on frequency." I have an extra Hamstack Microchip 18F46K22 CPU here looking for a project. Maybe an outboard WWV [or WWVB] timecode demodulator that sets the K3 time [I assume that's possible via serial commands, didn't look]. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015 - www.cqp.org On 11/26/2014 4:15 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: > My watch is a Casio Pathfinder (barometer, altimeter, compass, and even > keeps time!). It gets updated every night via Colo WWV station -- unless > I turn on my TV converter from Time-Warner; then it does not update, > even if the converter is 10 ft away. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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On Wed,11/26/2014 4:54 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> The second and third harmonics of the tones, maybe the fourth harmonic > depending on conditions and strength of the signal at your QTH How far down were the harmonics? -40 is 1% distortion, -50 is 0.32%. 5% is widely considered to be "communications quality." When I've listened to WWV (not often), I hear distortion. They're a Standard for Frequency and Time, not high futility. :) 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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On 11/26/2014 10:11 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Wed,11/26/2014 4:54 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: >> The second and third harmonics of the tones, maybe the fourth harmonic >> depending on conditions and strength of the signal at your QTH Another thing that should have been mentioned as appearing in the baseband are the "ticks". > > How far down were the harmonics? -40 is 1% distortion, -50 is 0.32%. 5% > is widely considered to be "communications quality." > > When I've listened to WWV (not often), I hear distortion. They're a > Standard for Frequency and Time, not high futility. :) How much of that is due to selective fading (twist) of the sidebands? It's HF, you know! :) 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
On 11/26/2014 10:11 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> How far down were the harmonics? -40 is 1% distortion, -50 is 0.32%. 5% > is widely considered to be "communications quality." The tones [500 and 600 Hz on alternate minutes] are transmitted at 50% modulation. The second harmonic of the tone on 10 MHz is about 15 to 18 dB below the fundamental tone on my P3 using the dBm scale. There is selective fading visible on the tones. The third harmonic is roughly another 15 dB below the second harmonic, and it fades more. At times, I can discern the fourth harmonic on the waterfall in monochrome mode, but can't see it on the spectrum display. The tone fundamental and each of the harmonics are surrounded by the sidebands of the 100 Hz sub-carrier and the IRIG-H time code. The striking part for me is the difference between 2.5/20 MHz and the other three. 2.5/20 are very clean, no tone harmonics, and the 100 Hz sub-carrier is where it should be and nowhere else. > > When I've listened to WWV (not often), I hear distortion. They're a > Standard for Frequency and Time, not high futility. :) The modulation that is generated at Ft. Collins [tones, ticks, time announcements] appears to be very high quality and exact. The weather, GPS status, and propagation announcements seem to come from other places and are of highly variable quality, mostly unintelligible for me. The WWV time announcements are rumored to be the voice of San Francisco area radio announcer. This may be an urban legend however. :-) 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015 - www.cqp.org ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by k6dgw
> I sent screen shots and an explanation to WWV, and asked them about the transmitters. The reply said, "We're pretty sure we're on frequency."
ROTFL Thanks for that, cheered me up. 73 David Anderson GM4JJJ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
So how come a $10 watch keeps better time than a $3K xcvr (that has access to multiple time signals)? :-) Barry W2UP |
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In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2
Extract from NIST Time and Frequency Services publication 432 (2002)
The WWV transmitters consist of two types: plate modulated class C transmitters operating at 10 kW each on 5, 10 and 15 MHz, and class A transmitters operating at 2.5 kW each on 2.5 and 20 MHz. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 27/11/2014 16:22, Phil Kane wrote: > On 11/26/2014 10:11 PM, Jim Brown wrote: >> On Wed,11/26/2014 4:54 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: >>> The second and third harmonics of the tones, maybe the fourth harmonic >>> depending on conditions and strength of the signal at your QTH > > Another thing that should have been mentioned as appearing in the > baseband are the "ticks". >> >> How far down were the harmonics? -40 is 1% distortion, -50 is 0.32%. 5% >> is widely considered to be "communications quality." >> >> When I've listened to WWV (not often), I hear distortion. They're a >> Standard for Frequency and Time, not high futility. :) > > How much of that is due to selective fading (twist) of the sidebands? > It's HF, you know! :) > > 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane > Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Barry
Because the Elecraft receiver is not designed to sync with those
multiple time signals, it is only capable of receiving them, and you can use them to sync the time with the Elecraft RTC. A receiver is not a watch! The main difference is quantity of the precision crystals required to maintain a few seconds per month accuracy that can be purchased. Timex can easily purchase them at a low price based on an order of 10,000 or 100,000 or even 1 million. Elecraft could only swing a deal on a purchase quantity of 100 or 1000. The quantity pricing difference is extreme. The K2, K3, KX3 are known for having fine receivers, that does not mean they are also precision timepieces. The RTC is meant to be an aid to logging when no other means is available. When working in the home shack, use computer time or some "Atomic Clock" to provide you with accurate time. When operating portable, set the Elecraft clock to the correct time before your outing. It will be sufficiently accurate for logging purposes over the weekend event or even the weeklong event. Remember "logging accuracy" rather than precise time to the nanosecond. Alternately, wear your Timex (or whatever) and ignore the Elecraft gear clock. If I want to know the time, I instinctively look at my wrist, it is a habit developed over many years. It is much quicker and more reliable than dialing up the time on any of my radios. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/27/2014 4:58 PM, Barry wrote: > Don Wilhelm-4 wrote >> The K3 RTC depends on the crystal and the associated capacitors. It is >> not a precision device, > So how come a $10 watch keeps better time than a $3K xcvr (that has access > to multiple time signals)? :-) > Barry W2UP > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Mike Harris-9
But.. It is not WWV that the "atomic" clocks and watches sync to, it is WWVB:
http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/wwvb.cfm Somewhat different specs and certainly different than the voice and tone WWVB broadcasts. Jack Sent from my iPad > On Nov 27, 2014, at 17:04, Mike Harris <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Extract from NIST Time and Frequency Services publication 432 (2002) > > The WWV transmitters consist of two types: plate modulated class C transmitters operating at 10 kW each on 5, 10 and 15 MHz, and class A transmitters operating at 2.5 kW each on 2.5 and 20 MHz. > > Regards, > > Mike VP8NO > >> On 27/11/2014 16:22, Phil Kane wrote: >>> On 11/26/2014 10:11 PM, Jim Brown wrote: >>>> On Wed,11/26/2014 4:54 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: >>>> The second and third harmonics of the tones, maybe the fourth harmonic >>>> depending on conditions and strength of the signal at your QTH >> >> Another thing that should have been mentioned as appearing in the >> baseband are the "ticks". >>> >>> How far down were the harmonics? -40 is 1% distortion, -50 is 0.32%. 5% >>> is widely considered to be "communications quality." >>> >>> When I've listened to WWV (not often), I hear distortion. They're a >>> Standard for Frequency and Time, not high futility. :) >> >> How much of that is due to selective fading (twist) of the sidebands? >> It's HF, you know! :) >> >> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane >> Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Mike Harris-9
Thanks Mike, I was guessing just from the spectral differences. Now I know.
73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015 - www.cqp.org On 11/27/2014 2:04 PM, Mike Harris wrote: > Extract from NIST Time and Frequency Services publication 432 (2002) > > The WWV transmitters consist of two types: plate modulated class C > transmitters operating at 10 kW each on 5, 10 and 15 MHz, and class A > transmitters operating at 2.5 kW each on 2.5 and 20 MHz. > > Regards, > > Mike VP8NO ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I have no circuit diagram, what is the timebase quartz frekvency?
73' István HA4ZD ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Don:
I think there may be a design error here. First clock crystals of the variety used in the K3 are dollar items in qualities of one. I have bought them in 1000 piece quantities for 50 cents. They are available from many vendors. Second the K3 design places a 33pf capacitor (C60) on the high side of the crystal to ground. However the clock chip manufacturer (see the data sheet at http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/PCF8563.pdf) suggests a 5 to 25pf NPO variable at this node. They also specify a maximum of 25pf on the node so the 33pf fixed value is actually out of spec. Furthermore if the 33pf cap is not NPO or COG grade it will have a poor temperature coefficient. This could easily explain the wide range of accuracy seen by users. I would hope that Elecraft would offer a 5-25 NPO trimmer upgrade. When, properly trimmed, we should be able to get the same accuracy as that $10 watch. 73, Fred, AE6QL -----Original Message----- From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:33 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] re K3 timekeeping Because the Elecraft receiver is not designed to sync with those multiple time signals, it is only capable of receiving them, and you can use them to sync the time with the Elecraft RTC. A receiver is not a watch! The main difference is quantity of the precision crystals required to maintain a few seconds per month accuracy that can be purchased. Timex can easily purchase them at a low price based on an order of 10,000 or 100,000 or even 1 million. Elecraft could only swing a deal on a purchase quantity of 100 or 1000. The quantity pricing difference is extreme. The K2, K3, KX3 are known for having fine receivers, that does not mean they are also precision timepieces. The RTC is meant to be an aid to logging when no other means is available. When working in the home shack, use computer time or some "Atomic Clock" to provide you with accurate time. When operating portable, set the Elecraft clock to the correct time before your outing. It will be sufficiently accurate for logging purposes over the weekend event or even the weeklong event. Remember "logging accuracy" rather than precise time to the nanosecond. Alternately, wear your Timex (or whatever) and ignore the Elecraft gear clock. If I want to know the time, I instinctively look at my wrist, it is a habit developed over many years. It is much quicker and more reliable than dialing up the time on any of my radios. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/27/2014 4:58 PM, Barry wrote: > Don Wilhelm-4 wrote >> The K3 RTC depends on the crystal and the associated capacitors. It >> is not a precision device, > So how come a $10 watch keeps better time than a $3K xcvr (that has > access to multiple time signals)? :-) Barry W2UP > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8640 - Release Date: 11/27/14 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Barry
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Barry <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So how come a $10 watch keeps better time than a $3K xcvr (that has access > to multiple time signals)? :-) > Barry W2UP > Primarily because that is the watch's prime purpose. I would add that the watch is really poor at RX and TX but you aren't complaining about that. The K3 does *not* have continuous background access to time signals independent of VFO frequencies, unless firmware and circuity is added to do so. Then it's a marketing decision whether there would be enough K3 owners who would pay the extra money for a K3 precision internal clock board that for most duplicates multiple devices in the shack. If you are using N1MM to log contacts, it is looking to the *computer* to supply time/date for contacts. If I were paper logging, I'd be looking to my wrist watch for the time. Why do I want to spend money to put a clock in a K3? I wouldn't buy the board. Myself, I wouldn't have put the clock in the K3 in the first place, just to prevent threads like this one. Now if I could get my K3 to make me fresh coffee during the contests, that might be interesting. How come the K3 doesn't make coffee? Isn't it just a little too easy to spend someone else's time and money? 73, Guy K2AV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Not its main purpose, but if it's there, it should be accurate. From some of the comments above, it's not expensive nor difficult to implement. Firmware could be implemented to simply update the time when the radio is turned on, similar to the way Windows does periodic internet time updates for a similarly inaccurate timekeeper. We can always hope and ask for more. No harm in that. It's nice that Elecraft is so responsive to our many requests, unlike KIY. Thinking back 10 years, I never thought I'd own another American-made radio, after my Drake line. And I'm soon to own my first American car in 30 years, as well. Barry W2UP |
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On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Barry <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Not its main purpose, but if it's there, it should be accurate. > Who gets to decide "should be" and what "accurate" means? I'll give those responsibilities to whoever is doing the work and laying out the cash. Too easy to spend someone else's time and money. Tell Elecraft how much you'd be willing to pay for the feature. > From some > of the comments above, it's not expensive nor difficult to implement. > Firmware could be implemented to simply update the time when the radio is > turned on, similar to the way Windows does periodic internet time updates > Going to add internet protocols to the K3 firmware? What happened to "simple"? > for a similarly inaccurate timekeeper. > Well, your complaint is a predictable intuitive assessment for sure. But after more than four decades of being beaten to a pulp in systems design and programming for installs, hardware, planning systems, and statistical systems running on everything from mainframes to PC's: If it looks simple, it isn't. If you think you understand, you don't. If it looks really complicated, and you are convinced that it contains some awful problem beyond your current skill set, it's probably twice as complicated as it looks. But at least you are on the same planet as reality. The actual cost and time to provide actual fully debugged software is almost always more than the developing company can afford. Perfect code is never profitable. Nature could give a rat's a** whether her laws and behavior can be programmed with short, sweet, inexpensive code. She does not care whether you can feed your family on a programmer's salary. This is why hardware is such a b*tch to code for. She doesn't like you, and would just as soon smack you down. As soon as you fix one bug, the customer will find another and complain all the louder. Over a lifetime, programmers don't even get a percent of the praise they deserve. Software and firmware are reserved by the human race as a default container to receive complaints. Anyone who does not complain about software and firmware is presumed mentally deficient. Software and firmware that work perfectly are resented, never acknowledged and presumed programmed by snooty people that look down their noses at regular folk. The human race is completely confused by the idea that an SMT chip 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch could contain firmware that cost 500 bux to make in one afternoon by a single programmer, or could contain firmware that cost billions of dollars and tens of thousands of employees to develop over decades, and the only visual clue is a different unreadable number printed on the chip surface. Hams in particular will expect to pay the former price for the latter content, based on the size of the chip. This vein goes on for miles and miles, but you get the drift. 73, Guy K2AV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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