size of radio limits? - K3

[Bill W4ZV]

W0YK:
 >No indication planned on the display.  You select the per-band memory you
want by tapping M->V followed by the appropriate M1-M4 button.  (Programmed
by V->M.)  Numbered memories 00-99 are global.

         I've got it now.  You directly access the desired stack
memory by choosing M1-M4.  So I would adopt a simple convention
M1 = CW, M2 = SSB, etc.  The stack in Orion was accessed by
pressing the band button with the 4-stack memory rotating in one
direction only.  The only way to tell which stack you were on
was to scroll through all 4.  Eventually (...after 3 years) they
added an ABCD indicator to the display.

 >How would you use an indicator?

         Given the way the K3 stack works I agree one is
unnecessary.  I also like being able to directly access
a stack memory with just 2 button presses, rather than
potentially using 4 presses via scrolling, as in Orion
and Omni VII.

         I've always been pleasantly surprised by the
ergonomics of the K2.  Translation:  It does what I
expect and doesn't do unexpected and unwanted things.
With the thought that has obviously gone into the K3,
I expect I'll continue to be pleasantly surprised and
even delighted.  I also appreciate Elecraft using some
very competent contesters (e.g. N6TR, N6XI, W0YK, etc)
as beta testers and taking their inputs seriously.

                                 73,  Bill  W4ZV





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[Don Wilhelm-3]

No wonder I was being confused by all this - HEY, if you can access any
of the 4 memories randomly, then it is no longer a 'stack'!

 From what little programming I learned, a 'stack' is accessed only from
the top - you stuff things into it, and then remove the topmost one,
throw it away if that is not what you wanted and do it over again until
you have the correct one.  (OK, my mind goes back to the 8080 PUSH and
POP instructions).

If it were me, I would have named them something like 'In-band memory'
rather than 'Band Stacking Memory', but I guess there is some precedent
for that name.  In any case, I am glad that the K3 offers random access
for these memories.

73,
Don W3FPR

Bill Tippett wrote:

>
>
> W0YK:
>  >No indication planned on the display.  You select the per-band memory you
> want by tapping M->V followed by the appropriate M1-M4 button.  (Programmed
> by V->M.)  Numbered memories 00-99 are global.
>
>         I've got it now.  You directly access the desired stack
> memory by choosing M1-M4.  So I would adopt a simple convention
> M1 = CW, M2 = SSB, etc.  The stack in Orion was accessed by
> pressing the band button with the 4-stack memory rotating in one
> direction only.  The only way to tell which stack you were on
> was to scroll through all 4.  Eventually (...after 3 years) they
> added an ABCD indicator to the display.
>
>  >How would you use an indicator?
>
>         Given the way the K3 stack works I agree one is
> unnecessary.  I also like being able to directly access
> a stack memory with just 2 button presses, rather than
> potentially using 4 presses via scrolling, as in Orion
> and Omni VII.
>

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[Augie "Gus" Hansen]

Don Wilhelm wrote:

> No wonder I was being confused by all this - HEY, if you can access
> any of the 4 memories randomly, then it is no longer a 'stack'!
>
> From what little programming I learned, a 'stack' is accessed only
> from the top - you stuff things into it, and then remove the topmost
> one, throw it away if that is not what you wanted and do it over again
> until you have the correct one.  (OK, my mind goes back to the 8080
> PUSH and POP instructions).
>
> If it were me, I would have named them something like 'In-band memory'
> rather than 'Band Stacking Memory', but I guess there is some
> precedent for that name.  In any case, I am glad that the K3 offers
> random access for these memories.

Right on, Don. It is not a stack.

The implementation of "band-stacking resisters" in most of the available
rigs today is that of a "circular queue", a first-in first-out (FIFO)
mechanism that is only accessible in one direction from the starting
point. I much prefer the Elecraft K3 random-access "array" of memories.

Gus Hansen
KB0YH




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[Ed Muns, W0YK]

> unnecessary.  I also like being able to directly access a
> stack memory with just 2 button presses, rather than
> potentially using 4 presses via scrolling, as in Orion and Omni VII.

Exactly.  Leave it to Elecraft to thoughtfully consider the use case for
"band-stacking registers" and implement a better solution.  We should
probably stop perpetuating the name band-stacking registers since the K3 has
random access band memories.  That's just the name everyone knows the
function by since prior radios implemented it that way.

73,
Ed - W0YK

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[John-483]

At 12:15 PM 27/07/07, you wrote:
>   We should probably stop perpetuating the name band-stacking
> registers since the K3 has
>random access band memories.  That's just the name everyone knows the
>function by since prior radios implemented it that way.
>
>73,
>Ed - W0YK

How about "direct access band memories"? Random makes it sound like
when you press M1-4, you don't know what you're going to get.

John
k7up

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[Don Wilhelm-3]

John,

The 'random' goes with the 'access' and not with 'memory'.

The terms 'random access' and 'serial access' have been used since the
days computers started to move away from tape I/O devices (serial
access) to other devices where you could point to any data address and
access it (random access).

So to my computer oriented mind, random access is preferable - the fact
that the word 'stack' has been glued into the fact that such memories
exist is the problem when it should refer to the access method.

73,
Don W3FPR

John wrote:

> At 12:15 PM 27/07/07, you wrote:
>>   We should probably stop perpetuating the name band-stacking
>> registers since the K3 has
>> random access band memories.  That's just the name everyone knows the
>> function by since prior radios implemented it that way.
>>
>> 73,
>> Ed - W0YK
>
> How about "direct access band memories"? Random makes it sound like when
> you press M1-4, you don't know what you're going to get.
>

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[John-483]

My point exactly!

John
k7up

At 01:12 PM 27/07/07, you wrote:

>We have too much time on our hands.
>
>
>Bob Serwy - N9RS
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email]
>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John
>Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:03 PM
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: RE: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? - K3
>
>At 12:15 PM 27/07/07, you wrote:
> >   We should probably stop perpetuating the name band-stacking
> >registers since the K3 has random access band memories.  That's just
> >the name everyone knows the function by since prior radios implemented
> >it that way.
> >
> >73,
> >Ed - W0YK
>
>How about "direct access band memories"? Random makes it sound like when you
>press M1-4, you don't know what you're going to get.
>
>John
>k7up
>
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[John-483]

Hi Don & Gary

As a person who has been sending RAM uploads to satellites since
1964, 21 years with the Air Force and 20 years working for NASA, I
have somewhat of an idea of what RAM is. Had to build loads and send
them real time on the fly many times in emergency situations, to
ensure things like attitude control algorithms were functioning
properly . I was just adding my 2 cents worth to the thread. It just
seems like we get on a subject here and beat it to death. BTW,
retired here and enjoying radio. Been licensed since 1958 and these
Elecraft radios are about the neatest radios I've ever owned and have
had the pleasure to operate.

John
k7up

At 01:41 PM 27/07/07, you wrote:

>John,
>
>The 'random' goes with the 'access' and not with 'memory'.
>
>The terms 'random access' and 'serial access' have been used since
>the days computers started to move away from tape I/O devices
>(serial access) to other devices where you could point to any data
>address and access it (random access).
>
>So to my computer oriented mind, random access is preferable - the
>fact that the word 'stack' has been glued into the fact that such
>memories exist is the problem when it should refer to the access method.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>
>John wrote:
>>At 12:15 PM 27/07/07, you wrote:
>>>   We should probably stop perpetuating the name band-stacking
>>> registers since the K3 has
>>>random access band memories.  That's just the name everyone knows the
>>>function by since prior radios implemented it that way.
>>>
>>>73,
>>>Ed - W0YK
>>How about "direct access band memories"? Random makes it sound like
>>when you press M1-4, you don't know what you're going to get.

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