soldering suggestions?

[rellis]

Hi,

Having purchased a K1 kit, but never having soldered before, I've
been working up to it by working on some other kits, such as an
electronic die, a signal generator, and an active null modem. I'm
using a hakko 936 and I have a .05" chisel tip. The solder that
I'm using is kester SN60PB40 #66/44 .025. (It is my intention to
use this solder and the .05" tip when working on the K1.)

There are some peculiarities with soldering that I'm uncertain about.

First is the time required to hold the soldering iron tip to the
component and pc board. When working on the active null modem (from
fox delta), the pc board pad is minute (compared to the velleman
kits) and was appropriately size for the .05" tip. (They are
comparable to the pads on the K1 pc board.) However, only
rarely would the solder flow in the 3 seconds that is suggested
in the K1 manual to avoid damage to components. (I'm applying the
recommendations in the K1 manual to these other kits.) The only
occasions that the solder flowed within 3 seconds was when I'd just
finished soldering a nearby location, for example when working on
a 16 pin socket. The solder tip was clean and silvery; the temperature
was set to 700 degrees (though I did not verify that with a separate
soldering tip temperature guage). Any thoughts on what I might be  
doing wrong?

(The velleman kits that I assembled clearly needed a bigger tip than
I was using... 30 seconds was needed to solder some connections. I was
considering them to be mostly practise, as they were my first attempts
at soldering. Surprisingly, the electronic die did work. The signal
generator doesn't smoke, but there are no blinking lights to tell me
whether it is working correctly. )

I also sometimes noticed that, when soldering, a tiny piece of solder
would sometimes fly off the tip of the solder wire and would impact
the soldering iron about halfway up the metal shaft (two inches above
the solder tip). Is this indicative of a static problem? This occurred
two or three times. This made me want to wear gloves in addition to the
eye protectors that I had on.

thanks,
  robert


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[Julian, G4ILO]

There are many more experienced constructors than I on this list, and
I am sure that many will be forthcoming with suggestions.

What I would say is that I have always found soldering difficult using
such a fine soldering iron tip. I have always used a larger tip, I
guess around 0.1in, even when soldering fine stuff including Elecraft
kits for which a smaller tip is recommended. The only difficulty that
causes is the risk of bridging adjacent solder pads on the board,
which is not much of a problem if you keep the bit clean, especially
if you have a steady hand and sharp eyes (which I used to have, though
not any more unfortunately.)

I think the slight inconvenience of sometimes having to remove a
solder bridge is offset by the much reduced risk of having a bad (dry)
joint caused by not heating the component leads up enough. So I really
think you'd be better off using a chunkier bit. But see what others
advise.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf


On Nov 20, 2007 9:07 AM, rellis <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> Having purchased a K1 kit, but never having soldered before, I've
> been working up to it by working on some other kits, such as an
> electronic die, a signal generator, and an active null modem. I'm
> using a hakko 936 and I have a .05" chisel tip. The solder that
> I'm using is kester SN60PB40 #66/44 .025. (It is my intention to
> use this solder and the .05" tip when working on the K1.)
>
> There are some peculiarities with soldering that I'm uncertain about.

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[Craig Rairdin]

I think I used a 1.6 mm tip when building my kits. Your .05" falls between
my 1.2mm and 1.6mm tips so I'm not sure which they might call .05".

You might try turning up the heat a bit, say to 750F.

It shouldn't take 30 seconds to get solder to flow. My normal technique is
to wipe the tip on the sponge to clean it, then apply a little solder to the
tip. The solder on the tip helps heat to flow to the pad and the part faster
than a dry tip. Touch the tip to the pad and the part so that the edge of
the chisel tip is in contact with the pad (the more surface area is in
contact with the pad, the better and faster the heat transfer. The tip
should also contact the part. Apply a little pressure so you get good
contact with the board and the lead. Again, good contact equals good heat
transfer.

I touch the solder to either the opposite side of the lead from the tip, or
to the pad. If I don't immediately get solder flow, I touch the solder to
the tip to wet it and improve the heat transfer, then I can almost always
get solder to flow by touching either the pad or the part.

I've never noticed the flying-solder problem that you've seen. I've never
worn gloves and I haven't been burned even after building all four of the
Elecraft radios and several of the mini-kits. (I guess I shouldn't count the
K3 when talking about not getting burned.) :-)

So I think the secret is to use a little more heat, prime the tip with
solder, make sure you're laying the edge of the tip flat against the board,
use a little pressure, and make sure you have contact with the lead. Touch
the tip if necessary to get the solder flowing.

When it works right you should clearly see solder flowing on the lead and on
the pad, not just one or the other.

Hope this helps. There are others here who are professionals who might give
better advice. I just know that what I'm doing is working.

Craig
NZ0R
K3/100 #25
K2/100 #4941
K1 #1966
KX1 #1499

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of rellis
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 3:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] soldering suggestions?



Hi,

Having purchased a K1 kit, but never having soldered before, I've
been working up to it by working on some other kits, such as an
electronic die, a signal generator, and an active null modem. I'm
using a hakko 936 and I have a .05" chisel tip. The solder that
I'm using is kester SN60PB40 #66/44 .025. (It is my intention to
use this solder and the .05" tip when working on the K1.)

There are some peculiarities with soldering that I'm uncertain about.

First is the time required to hold the soldering iron tip to the
component and pc board. When working on the active null modem (from
fox delta), the pc board pad is minute (compared to the velleman
kits) and was appropriately size for the .05" tip. (They are
comparable to the pads on the K1 pc board.) However, only
rarely would the solder flow in the 3 seconds that is suggested
in the K1 manual to avoid damage to components. (I'm applying the
recommendations in the K1 manual to these other kits.) The only
occasions that the solder flowed within 3 seconds was when I'd just
finished soldering a nearby location, for example when working on
a 16 pin socket. The solder tip was clean and silvery; the temperature
was set to 700 degrees (though I did not verify that with a separate
soldering tip temperature guage). Any thoughts on what I might be  
doing wrong?

(The velleman kits that I assembled clearly needed a bigger tip than
I was using... 30 seconds was needed to solder some connections. I was
considering them to be mostly practise, as they were my first attempts
at soldering. Surprisingly, the electronic die did work. The signal
generator doesn't smoke, but there are no blinking lights to tell me
whether it is working correctly. )

I also sometimes noticed that, when soldering, a tiny piece of solder
would sometimes fly off the tip of the solder wire and would impact
the soldering iron about halfway up the metal shaft (two inches above
the solder tip). Is this indicative of a static problem? This occurred
two or three times. This made me want to wear gloves in addition to the
eye protectors that I had on.

thanks,
  robert


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[AJSOENKE]

Robert,  From the description of the tools you have been using I wouldn't
even guess you are a "beginner" at soldering. You've made all the right choices
and have spent some time learning the vast range of devices that will confront
you. The .05 chisel tip is a good choice, especially for the Elecraft devices.
It is helpful to make sure the tip has been been wiped clean on the sponge to
get good contact with the surface. But, it is also important that tip have a
small amount of solder freshly applied to the tip to enhance wetting contact
and to improve the thermal transfer to the pad/wire. Not too much, not too
little solder to wet the tip.  A common error is to use a sponge that is too wet
and to bury the tip in it. This chills the tip and may delay the readiness to
solder. The three seconds is a pretty vague figure - I rather rely on the time
it takes to cause the solder 'break and flow' causing the solder to wet the
metal surfaces.  Since the tip may not cause the solder to flow immediately, it
is also likely there is not a lot of heat going into the component that would
cause damage. If you can't get the solder to flow in a reasonable time 4 - 6
seconds or so, you may not have ggod contact and might need to apply a little
more pressure while gently moving the tip around in a scrubbing motion. That
has always worked for me. It helps to have a flat side of the chisel tip against
the pad to increase the contact area with the surface. Working off the end of
a fine tip, like you are writing with a pencil, may not provide for good heat
transfer.  One last thing - to get solder to flow to a surface and alloy, it
must be hot, so make sure you have contact with the pad and the wire to get
things moving right. Avoid movement that will fracture the semi-solid solder
yielding what is sometimes called a "cold" solder joint. The have a dull granular
appearance. A well done solder joint will reveal the features of the wire and
the pad (not excess solder) and will have a bright shiny appearance. Commmon
rubbing alcohol can be used to clean the solder of flux residue if you need to
do a close inspection, otherwise I wouldn't do it. It's often needed after
doing a remove and replace repair, becaus eof the buildup of flux. A cotton
q-tip can be used for a small job, but you'll get cotton fibres that need to be
picked off. A better choice is a small swatch of cotton fabric, like a piece of
old t-shirt. You can also use that to dry off excess. Avoid synthetic
materials, they are good static generators and can cause ESD damage. My choice is a
natural bristle brush. You can use an "acid-brush" with pure bristle or boar
bristle, but not plastic. They are usually about a 1/2 inch of bristle, but I
trim mine to less than 1/4 inch to give it a little scrubbing strength. These can
usually be found in auto parts and tool stores. Also, you can sometimes find
detail brushes or artists brushes that have stiff bristles - they just cost a
little more.

Remeber this is mainly for the fine work. If you get into 12 gauge wire and
1/4 inch terminals you'll need the 40 watt or larger iron with a 3/16 - 1/4 tip
or the old trusty "gun".

Hope that helps.

73 de WA6VNN  Al



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[gm3sek]

Craig Rairdin wrote:
>
>So I think the secret is to use a little more heat, prime the tip with
>solder, make sure you're laying the edge of the tip flat against the
>board, use a little pressure, and make sure you have contact with the
>lead. Touch the tip if necessary to get the solder flowing.
>
>When it works right you should clearly see solder flowing on the lead
>and on the pad, not just one or the other.
>
Agreed - here's another vote in favor of a higher tip temperature and
faster work.

It also helps a lot to use a stubby cone-shaped tip, and not a thin
pencil/chisel shape. The cone shape stores as much heat as possible
right behind the point, and this gives the fastest possible transfer of
heat into the joint.

Thin pencil tips are much poorer in this respect. They have a much
smaller mass of copper behind the point, and heat from the element has
make its way down that long, thin stem.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK         'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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[Mike Scott-7]

"I'm using a hakko 936 and I have a .05" chisel tip. The solder that I'm
using is kester SN60PB40 #66/44 .025. (It is my intention to use this solder
and the .05" tip when working on the K1.)"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert,

I thought of two items when I read your post. The first one is the tip the
second you have already picked up on from other posts about touching the
solder to the tip to get the solder to flow quicker if needed.

I haven't timed my solder joint contact time but I would guess it to be 2-3
seconds plus or minus.

I don't know what a Hakko.05" tip is. When I look at all the Hakko tips, all
measurements are in millimeters and .05 inches (1.27mm) doesn't cross to any
of them. Are you using the small handpiece, medium or large? Medium would be
common. It does not have a spring for cord strain relief and no holes for
heat dissipation in the element cover and the tip base outside dimensions
are 6.5 mm (0.256")

There are many tip options in the Hakko line. Getting some mass behind the
tip means to me to using the tip whose conical shape is shorter, not the 25
mm cone but 17 mm. There are tips where the tip quickly reduces to a narrow
1.5 mm cylinder then 15 mm later forms a chisel tip. If you are using one of
these you are not transferring much heat. You should have a continuous
conical shape all the way from the cylindrical tip base to the tip and the
cone is 17 mm (.669") long.

I measured the tip that I use for Elecraft kit building. It is identical to
your station I believe (Hakko 936) with medium handpiece. I use the 1.6 mm
tip (.063") with 17 mm continuous cone. I am not exactly sure as I have been
using mine for years and the tip has some solder on it so my measurement may
be off. I actually measured something closer to 2 mm and eyeballed what some
cold solder on the tip was doing to my measurement.


Mike Scott - AE6WA
Tarzana, CA (DM04 / near LA)
QRP-ARCI #12326/ KX1  #1311/ Swan 350C
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