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suggested PC???

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Gary K9GS

Re: suggested PC???

Hi Jerry,

Don't use a wired network. I had my shack computer on a wired network
when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.

Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs, router,
modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the PCs), and the
Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by the road. When I
rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have never
regretted it.

On 1/5/2016 11:53 AM, Jerry wrote:

> Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm ready to interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC just for use in the shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are logging and control of the k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.
>
>
> It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 500gb SSD and wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire this). What else do I need in the box in the way of interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory (>8gb)?
>
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated
>
>
> Jerry, k1tgx
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> --
> 73,
>
> Gary K9GS
>
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
> CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org
>
> ************************************************

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: suggested PC???

While everything in my shack is wireless.......almost, I do have a USB
cable between the laptop computer and K3S. What is the recommendation
to make / convert the K3S port to wireless?

73
Bob K4TAX

On 1/5/2016 7:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
> When I rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have
> never regretted it.

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Gary K9GS

Re: suggested PC???

I probably should have worded that better. All of my COMPUTER
connections to my network are wireless. My K3, WinKey, etc are cabled
to the hamshack PC.

On 1/5/2016 7:21 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> While everything in my shack is wireless.......almost, I do have a USB
> cable between the laptop computer and K3S. What is the
> recommendation to make / convert the K3S port to wireless?
>
> 73
> Bob K4TAX
>
> On 1/5/2016 7:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
>> When I rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have
>> never regretted it.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> --
> 73,
>
> Gary K9GS
>
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
> CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org
>
> ************************************************

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: suggested PC???

OK thanks. I'm wireless with both of the laptops, wireless to the
printer, and to the house control systems. Just the radio connected via
wire to the computer.

73
Bob, K4TAX

On 1/5/2016 7:37 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
> I probably should have worded that better. All of my COMPUTER
> connections to my network are wireless. My K3, WinKey, etc are cabled
> to the hamshack PC

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Neil Zampella

Re: suggested PC???

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

FWIW ... I've got everything setup wired in the shack, but everything
(cable coax, ethernet, power) runs through an uninterruptible power
supply (ups). Many of the higher end models provide not only power
surge protection and battery, but lightning/surge protection for coax
and ethernet.

Neil Zampella
KN3ILZ

On 1/5/2016 8:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:

> Hi Jerry,
>
> Don't use a wired network. I had my shack computer on a wired network
> when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.
>
> Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs, router,
> modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the PCs), and the
> Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by the road. When I
> rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have never
> regretted it.
>
>
>
> On 1/5/2016 11:53 AM, Jerry wrote:
>> Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm
>> ready to interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC
>> just for use in the shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are
>> logging and control of the k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.
>>
>>
>> It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a
>> 500gb SSD and wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire
>> this). What else do I need in the box in the way of
>> interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory (>8gb)?
>>
>>
>> Any suggestions would be appreciated
>>
>>
>> Jerry, k1tgx
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73,
>>
>> Gary K9GS
>>
>> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
>> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>> CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org
>>
>> ************************************************
>

Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: suggested PC???

Sign me up for wireless - all those network cables are just too
effective antennas for lightning surges, and not just for direct hits.
I am on my 3d serial transceiver in my K3 I now have a surge protector
right at the port on the radio, but an still uncomfortable..

73, Pete N4ZR
Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
<http://N1MM.hamdocs.com>. Check
out the Reverse Beacon Network at
<http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 1/6/2016 8:25 AM, Neil Zampella wrote:

> FWIW ... I've got everything setup wired in the shack, but everything
> (cable coax, ethernet, power) runs through an uninterruptible power
> supply (ups). Many of the higher end models provide not only power
> surge protection and battery, but lightning/surge protection for coax
> and ethernet.
>
> Neil Zampella
> KN3ILZ
>
> On 1/5/2016 8:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
>> Hi Jerry,
>>
>> Don't use a wired network. I had my shack computer on a wired
>> network when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.
>>
>> Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs, router,
>> modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the PCs), and the
>> Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by the road. When I
>> rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have never
>> regretted it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/5/2016 11:53 AM, Jerry wrote:
>>> Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm
>>> ready to interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC
>>> just for use in the shack. My only uses (that I can think of now)
>>> are logging and control of the k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a
>>> 500gb SSD and wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire
>>> this). What else do I need in the box in the way of
>>> interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory (>8gb)?
>>>
>>>
>>> Any suggestions would be appreciated
>>>
>>>
>>> Jerry, k1tgx
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Gary K9GS
>>>
>>> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
>>> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>>> CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org
>>>
>>> ************************************************
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Barry Baines

Lightning Protection (was-Re: suggested PC???)

In reply to this post by Neil Zampella

Neil:

> On Jan 6, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Neil Zampella <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> FWIW ... I've got everything setup wired in the shack, but everything (cable coax, ethernet, power) runs through an uninterruptible power supply (ups). Many of the higher end models provide not only power surge protection and battery, but lightning/surge protection for coax and ethernet.

By ‘coax’ do you mean cable TV coax or are you suggesting RF coax for amateur radio transceivers? Clearly, UPS surge protection is not designed for anything on the order that an amateur transmitter (even QRP) can produce. Further, UPS devices presume 75 ohm coax systems, not 50 Ohm as used in amateur radio antennas and transmitters. They are designed to protect a TV antenna or a cable setup box/cable modem.

My shack in Georgia was impacted by an indirect hit in 2014 which damaged computers, amplifiers, ethernet switches, and a myriad of gear that was ’networked’ in the shack as well as the house, even though I have Polyphasers on all of my RF cables going into the shack from the tower with an extensive ground system for lightning surges. What I didn’t have was adequate protection on my ethernet, coax from DirecTV, and telco lines in the shack where presumably the surge entered. I didn’t want to go wireless on the LAN because I operate my station remote and wireless connections introduce a potential failure point that can’t be fixed unless I’m there to reset something. Wireless is also slower than wired ethernet.

My solution was to purchase Ethernet-to-Fiber converters to isolate my LAN network in the shack from the rest of the LAN in the house as well as provide isolation from individual components from one another. Thus, I ran dual 110 ft. fiber from the house to the hamshack (through existing buried conduit that also carries telco and DirecTV) that will keep surges from coming into the house through the ethernet connections from the shack. I installed switches in the shack that have both LAN and Fiber so that I could isolate nearby components from the network in the shack. I use ethernet-to-fiber converters with short fiber jumpers to individually isolate my high end equipment from the network (such as a Flex-6700 and the computers in the shack). These converters have no impact on the ability of the network to communicate (still 10/100/1000 MB depending upon the component that it protects). I consider this an insurance policy—the cost of the fiber being significantly less than the cost of replacement of damaged equipment. Each converter has a 5V ‘wall wart’ which is plugged into a UPS primarily for surge protection but also keeps the network up in the event of power failure or momentary power fluctuation.

I’m still in the process of installing protection for the DirecTV line coming to the shack as well as the telco lines in the shack. I have a central ground panel where I will install the protective devices for telco and DirecTV by the existing RF surge protectors. One challenge is finding a lightning protection device for DirecTV as they feed power through the cable to power the LNB at the dish. When I spoke with a DirecTV technician, he had no suggestions on what to use. There are devices out there, just need to find them. I also have a Speco Technology PTZ analog camera on the tower with 75 ohm video, 12 VDC power, and RS-485 control lines will also be protected at the same ground panel. I’ve found suitable devices for the camera’s connections.

AC power is also a concern. A UPS is adequate for 120 VAC equipment such as computers and monitors but won’t protect 220 VAC devices such as high power amplifiers. I’m still hoping to find a suitable surge protector designed for 220 VAC systems to plug between my amplifiers and the 220 VAC wall connection.

From an Elecraft perspective, I use fiber-to-ethernet interfaces between the Remote Rig devices and my network. Thus, if a surge were to go from the K3’s RS-232 port to the RemoteRig RCC-1258MKII, the surge won’t be extended through the Remote Rig to the LAN. My KPA-500 is attached to a RC-1216H (which provides a web interface for controlling the amplifier) which in turn has a ethernet-to-fiber interface which protects the network from a surge coming through the RC-1216H. My KAT-500’s serial line is attached to a Lantronix Serial-to-Ethernet interface device which in turn is attached to an ethernet-to-fiber interface. As my rotor controller RS-232 line is attached to the same Lantronix box, any surge coming from the rotor interface will also not go through the LAN network. Thus, there are no RS-232 line connections directly from my ham equipment to a computer, providing additional isolation for the computers. I can’t say the same thing about USB connections, as some devices such as a Fun Cube Dongle won’t work if attached to a USB-to-Ethernet interface. However, I do use a USB-to-Ethernet device for my Wavenode WN-2.

73,

Barry Baines, WD4ASW
Westborough, MA
Folkston, GA

>
> Neil Zampella
> KN3ILZ
>
> On 1/5/2016 8:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
>> Hi Jerry,
>>
>> Don't use a wired network. I had my shack computer on a wired network when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.
>>
>> Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs, router, modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the PCs), and the Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by the road. When I rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have never regretted it.

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Lightning Protection (was-Re: suggested PC???)

Two things I've found to be a big deterrent regarding lightning damage:

(a) all driven grounds must be bonded back to the AC mains ground and
this must be done outside of the house. I use some 1/2" flexible
copper water line as my bonding conductor. It is trenched around the
outside of the foundation about 6" deep from the tower ground and coax
lightening protection system back to the AC Mains ground some 50 ft away.

(b) Install a whole house surge protector at the main breaker panel.
These are sometimes referred to as Secondary Surge Protectors. Usually
should be installed by a qualified licensed electrician.

73
Bob, K4TAX

On 1/6/2016 11:52 AM, Barry Baines wrote:

> Neil:
>
>
>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Neil Zampella <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> FWIW ... I've got everything setup wired in the shack, but everything (cable coax, ethernet, power) runs through an uninterruptible power supply (ups). Many of the higher end models provide not only power surge protection and battery, but lightning/surge protection for coax and ethernet.
>
> By ‘coax’ do you mean cable TV coax or are you suggesting RF coax for amateur radio transceivers? Clearly, UPS surge protection is not designed for anything on the order that an amateur transmitter (even QRP) can produce. Further, UPS devices presume 75 ohm coax systems, not 50 Ohm as used in amateur radio antennas and transmitters. They are designed to protect a TV antenna or a cable setup box/cable modem.
>
> My shack in Georgia was impacted by an indirect hit in 2014 which damaged computers, amplifiers, ethernet switches, and a myriad of gear that was ’networked’ in the shack as well as the house, even though I have Polyphasers on all of my RF cables going into the shack from the tower with an extensive ground system for lightning surges. What I didn’t have was adequate protection on my ethernet, coax from DirecTV, and telco lines in the shack where presumably the surge entered. I didn’t want to go wireless on the LAN because I operate my station remote and wireless connections introduce a potential failure point that can’t be fixed unless I’m there to reset something. Wireless is also slower than wired ethernet.
>
> My solution was to purchase Ethernet-to-Fiber converters to isolate my LAN network in the shack from the rest of the LAN in the house as well as provide isolation from individual components from one another. Thus, I ran dual 110 ft. fiber from the house to the hamshack (through existing buried conduit that also carries telco and DirecTV) that will keep surges from coming into the house through the ethernet connections from the shack. I installed switches in the shack that have both LAN and Fiber so that I could isolate nearby components from the network in the shack. I use ethernet-to-fiber converters with short fiber jumpers to individually isolate my high end equipment from the network (such as a Flex-6700 and the computers in the shack). These converters have no impact on the ability of the network to communicate (still 10/100/1000 MB depending upon the component that it protects). I consider this an insurance policy—the cost of the fiber being significantly less than the cost of replacement of damaged equipment. Each converter has a 5V ‘wall wart’ which is plugged into a UPS primarily for surge protection but also keeps the network up in the event of power failure or momentary power fluctuation.
>
> I’m still in the process of installing protection for the DirecTV line coming to the shack as well as the telco lines in the shack. I have a central ground panel where I will install the protective devices for telco and DirecTV by the existing RF surge protectors. One challenge is finding a lightning protection device for DirecTV as they feed power through the cable to power the LNB at the dish. When I spoke with a DirecTV technician, he had no suggestions on what to use. There are devices out there, just need to find them. I also have a Speco Technology PTZ analog camera on the tower with 75 ohm video, 12 VDC power, and RS-485 control lines will also be protected at the same ground panel. I’ve found suitable devices for the camera’s connections.
>
> AC power is also a concern. A UPS is adequate for 120 VAC equipment such as computers and monitors but won’t protect 220 VAC devices such as high power amplifiers. I’m still hoping to find a suitable surge protector designed for 220 VAC systems to plug between my amplifiers and the 220 VAC wall connection.
>
> From an Elecraft perspective, I use fiber-to-ethernet interfaces between the Remote Rig devices and my network. Thus, if a surge were to go from the K3’s RS-232 port to the RemoteRig RCC-1258MKII, the surge won’t be extended through the Remote Rig to the LAN. My KPA-500 is attached to a RC-1216H (which provides a web interface for controlling the amplifier) which in turn has a ethernet-to-fiber interface which protects the network from a surge coming through the RC-1216H. My KAT-500’s serial line is attached to a Lantronix Serial-to-Ethernet interface device which in turn is attached to an ethernet-to-fiber interface. As my rotor controller RS-232 line is attached to the same Lantronix box, any surge coming from the rotor interface will also not go through the LAN network. Thus, there are no RS-232 line connections directly from my ham equipment to a computer, providing additional isolation for the computers. I can’t say the same thing about USB connections, as some devices such as a Fun Cube Dongle won’t work if attached to a USB-to-Ethernet interface. However, I do use a USB-to-Ethernet device for my Wavenode WN-2.
>
>
>
> 73,
>
> Barry Baines, WD4ASW
> Westborough, MA
> Folkston, GA
>
>
>> Neil Zampella
>> KN3ILZ
>>
>> On 1/5/2016 8:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
>>> Hi Jerry,
>>>
>>> Don't use a wired network. I had my shack computer on a wired network when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.
>>>
>>> Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs, router, modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the PCs), and the Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by the road. When I rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have never regretted it.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: Lightning Protection (was-Re: suggested PC???)

YES!

Another VERY important thing is to NEVER use "MOV surge protectors" on
branch circuits. They're great at the service entrance, as Bob
recommends, but they CAUSE equipment damage when used on branch circuit,
because the MOVs dump the lightning spike onto the Green wire, which
creates a high voltage spike on the Green wire. That voltage is
different at every outlet and at every piece of gear, and the difference
shows up as a common mode voltage between interconnected equipment.
THAT'S what blows up stuff connected by wired Ethernet. We discovered
this the hard way about 25 years ago in the pro audio industry.

The ONLY safe surge protectors on branch circuits (that is, next to
equipment) are SERIES MODE protectors. They work by storing the surge
in a big inductor, then slowly discharging it. They're more expensive,
but they won't blow up your gear. The only mfrs I know of are Brick
Wall, Zero Surge, and SurgeX.

Also critical -- bond ALL grounds together, including the shack ground,
CATV ground, TELCO ground, etc., and back to the power ground.

73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,1/6/2016 11:35 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Two things I've found to be a big deterrent regarding lightning damage:
>
> (a) all driven grounds must be bonded back to the AC mains ground and
> this must be done outside of the house. I use some 1/2" flexible
> copper water line as my bonding conductor. It is trenched around the
> outside of the foundation about 6" deep from the tower ground and coax
> lightening protection system back to the AC Mains ground some 50 ft away.
>
> (b) Install a whole house surge protector at the main breaker panel.
> These are sometimes referred to as Secondary Surge Protectors.
> Usually should be installed by a qualified licensed electrician.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 1/6/2016 11:52 AM, Barry Baines wrote:
>> Neil:
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Neil Zampella <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> FWIW ... I've got everything setup wired in the shack, but
>>> everything (cable coax, ethernet, power) runs through an
>>> uninterruptible power supply (ups). Many of the higher end models
>>> provide not only power surge protection and battery, but
>>> lightning/surge protection for coax and ethernet.
>>
>> By ‘coax’ do you mean cable TV coax or are you suggesting RF coax for
>> amateur radio transceivers? Clearly, UPS surge protection is not
>> designed for anything on the order that an amateur transmitter (even
>> QRP) can produce. Further, UPS devices presume 75 ohm coax systems,
>> not 50 Ohm as used in amateur radio antennas and transmitters. They
>> are designed to protect a TV antenna or a cable setup box/cable modem.
>>
>> My shack in Georgia was impacted by an indirect hit in 2014 which
>> damaged computers, amplifiers, ethernet switches, and a myriad of
>> gear that was ’networked’ in the shack as well as the house, even
>> though I have Polyphasers on all of my RF cables going into the shack
>> from the tower with an extensive ground system for lightning surges.
>> What I didn’t have was adequate protection on my ethernet, coax from
>> DirecTV, and telco lines in the shack where presumably the surge
>> entered. I didn’t want to go wireless on the LAN because I operate
>> my station remote and wireless connections introduce a potential
>> failure point that can’t be fixed unless I’m there to reset
>> something. Wireless is also slower than wired ethernet.
>>
>> My solution was to purchase Ethernet-to-Fiber converters to isolate
>> my LAN network in the shack from the rest of the LAN in the house as
>> well as provide isolation from individual components from one
>> another. Thus, I ran dual 110 ft. fiber from the house to the
>> hamshack (through existing buried conduit that also carries telco and
>> DirecTV) that will keep surges from coming into the house through the
>> ethernet connections from the shack. I installed switches in the
>> shack that have both LAN and Fiber so that I could isolate nearby
>> components from the network in the shack. I use ethernet-to-fiber
>> converters with short fiber jumpers to individually isolate my high
>> end equipment from the network (such as a Flex-6700 and the
>> computers in the shack). These converters have no impact on the
>> ability of the network to communicate (still 10/100/1000 MB depending
>> upon the component that it protects). I consider this an insurance
>> policy—the cost of the fiber being significantly less than the cost
>> of replacement of damaged equipment. Each converter has a 5V ‘wall
>> wart’ which is plugged into a UPS primarily for surge protection but
>> also keeps the network up in the event of power failure or momentary
>> power fluctuation.
>>
>> I’m still in the process of installing protection for the DirecTV
>> line coming to the shack as well as the telco lines in the shack. I
>> have a central ground panel where I will install the protective
>> devices for telco and DirecTV by the existing RF surge protectors.
>> One challenge is finding a lightning protection device for DirecTV as
>> they feed power through the cable to power the LNB at the dish. When
>> I spoke with a DirecTV technician, he had no suggestions on what to
>> use. There are devices out there, just need to find them. I also
>> have a Speco Technology PTZ analog camera on the tower with 75 ohm
>> video, 12 VDC power, and RS-485 control lines will also be protected
>> at the same ground panel. I’ve found suitable devices for the
>> camera’s connections.
>>
>> AC power is also a concern. A UPS is adequate for 120 VAC equipment
>> such as computers and monitors but won’t protect 220 VAC devices such
>> as high power amplifiers. I’m still hoping to find a suitable surge
>> protector designed for 220 VAC systems to plug between my amplifiers
>> and the 220 VAC wall connection.
>>
>> From an Elecraft perspective, I use fiber-to-ethernet interfaces
>> between the Remote Rig devices and my network. Thus, if a surge were
>> to go from the K3’s RS-232 port to the RemoteRig RCC-1258MKII, the
>> surge won’t be extended through the Remote Rig to the LAN. My
>> KPA-500 is attached to a RC-1216H (which provides a web interface for
>> controlling the amplifier) which in turn has a ethernet-to-fiber
>> interface which protects the network from a surge coming through the
>> RC-1216H. My KAT-500’s serial line is attached to a Lantronix
>> Serial-to-Ethernet interface device which in turn is attached to an
>> ethernet-to-fiber interface. As my rotor controller RS-232 line is
>> attached to the same Lantronix box, any surge coming from the rotor
>> interface will also not go through the LAN network. Thus, there are
>> no RS-232 line connections directly from my ham equipment to a
>> computer, providing additional isolation for the computers. I can’t
>> say the same thing about USB connections, as some devices such as a
>> Fun Cube Dongle won’t work if attached to a USB-to-Ethernet
>> interface. However, I do use a USB-to-Ethernet device for my
>> Wavenode WN-2.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Barry Baines, WD4ASW
>> Westborough, MA
>> Folkston, GA
>>
>>
>>> Neil Zampella
>>> KN3ILZ
>>>
>>> On 1/5/2016 8:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
>>>> Hi Jerry,
>>>>
>>>> Don't use a wired network. I had my shack computer on a wired
>>>> network when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs,
>>>> router, modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the
>>>> PCs), and the Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by
>>>> the road. When I rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my
>>>> PCs and have never regretted it.
>> ______________________________________________________________
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Alan Bloom

Re: Lightning Protection (was-Re: suggested PC???)

>> (b) Install a whole house surge protector at the main breaker
>> panel. These are sometimes referred to as Secondary Surge
>> Protectors. Usually should be installed by a qualified licensed
>> electrician.

The buzz word for these is "TVSS" (Transient Voltage Surge Suppressor).
I recently had one installed at my house when the meter main was replaced.

(Even though we rarely get lightning in this part of California.)

Alan N1AL

On 01/06/2016 01:35 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> YES!
>
> Another VERY important thing is to NEVER use "MOV surge protectors" on
> branch circuits. They're great at the service entrance, as Bob
> recommends, but they CAUSE equipment damage when used on branch circuit,
> because the MOVs dump the lightning spike onto the Green wire, which
> creates a high voltage spike on the Green wire. That voltage is
> different at every outlet and at every piece of gear, and the difference
> shows up as a common mode voltage between interconnected equipment.
> THAT'S what blows up stuff connected by wired Ethernet. We discovered
> this the hard way about 25 years ago in the pro audio industry.
>
> The ONLY safe surge protectors on branch circuits (that is, next to
> equipment) are SERIES MODE protectors. They work by storing the surge
> in a big inductor, then slowly discharging it. They're more expensive,
> but they won't blow up your gear. The only mfrs I know of are Brick
> Wall, Zero Surge, and SurgeX.
>
> Also critical -- bond ALL grounds together, including the shack ground,
> CATV ground, TELCO ground, etc., and back to the power ground.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> On Wed,1/6/2016 11:35 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Two things I've found to be a big deterrent regarding lightning damage:
>>
>> (a) all driven grounds must be bonded back to the AC mains ground and
>> this must be done outside of the house. I use some 1/2" flexible
>> copper water line as my bonding conductor. It is trenched around the
>> outside of the foundation about 6" deep from the tower ground and coax
>> lightening protection system back to the AC Mains ground some 50 ft away.
>>
>> (b) Install a whole house surge protector at the main breaker panel.
>> These are sometimes referred to as Secondary Surge Protectors. Usually
>> should be installed by a qualified licensed electrician.
>>
>> 73
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> On 1/6/2016 11:52 AM, Barry Baines wrote:
>>> Neil:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Neil Zampella <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> FWIW ... I've got everything setup wired in the shack, but
>>>> everything (cable coax, ethernet, power) runs through an
>>>> uninterruptible power supply (ups). Many of the higher end models
>>>> provide not only power surge protection and battery, but
>>>> lightning/surge protection for coax and ethernet.
>>>
>>> By ‘coax’ do you mean cable TV coax or are you suggesting RF coax for
>>> amateur radio transceivers? Clearly, UPS surge protection is not
>>> designed for anything on the order that an amateur transmitter (even
>>> QRP) can produce. Further, UPS devices presume 75 ohm coax systems,
>>> not 50 Ohm as used in amateur radio antennas and transmitters. They
>>> are designed to protect a TV antenna or a cable setup box/cable modem.
>>>
>>> My shack in Georgia was impacted by an indirect hit in 2014 which
>>> damaged computers, amplifiers, ethernet switches, and a myriad of
>>> gear that was ’networked’ in the shack as well as the house, even
>>> though I have Polyphasers on all of my RF cables going into the shack
>>> from the tower with an extensive ground system for lightning surges.
>>> What I didn’t have was adequate protection on my ethernet, coax from
>>> DirecTV, and telco lines in the shack where presumably the surge
>>> entered. I didn’t want to go wireless on the LAN because I operate
>>> my station remote and wireless connections introduce a potential
>>> failure point that can’t be fixed unless I’m there to reset
>>> something. Wireless is also slower than wired ethernet.
>>>
>>> My solution was to purchase Ethernet-to-Fiber converters to isolate
>>> my LAN network in the shack from the rest of the LAN in the house as
>>> well as provide isolation from individual components from one
>>> another. Thus, I ran dual 110 ft. fiber from the house to the
>>> hamshack (through existing buried conduit that also carries telco and
>>> DirecTV) that will keep surges from coming into the house through the
>>> ethernet connections from the shack. I installed switches in the
>>> shack that have both LAN and Fiber so that I could isolate nearby
>>> components from the network in the shack. I use ethernet-to-fiber
>>> converters with short fiber jumpers to individually isolate my high
>>> end equipment from the network (such as a Flex-6700 and the
>>> computers in the shack). These converters have no impact on the
>>> ability of the network to communicate (still 10/100/1000 MB depending
>>> upon the component that it protects). I consider this an insurance
>>> policy—the cost of the fiber being significantly less than the cost
>>> of replacement of damaged equipment. Each converter has a 5V ‘wall
>>> wart’ which is plugged into a UPS primarily for surge protection but
>>> also keeps the network up in the event of power failure or momentary
>>> power fluctuation.
>>>
>>> I’m still in the process of installing protection for the DirecTV
>>> line coming to the shack as well as the telco lines in the shack. I
>>> have a central ground panel where I will install the protective
>>> devices for telco and DirecTV by the existing RF surge protectors.
>>> One challenge is finding a lightning protection device for DirecTV as
>>> they feed power through the cable to power the LNB at the dish. When
>>> I spoke with a DirecTV technician, he had no suggestions on what to
>>> use. There are devices out there, just need to find them. I also
>>> have a Speco Technology PTZ analog camera on the tower with 75 ohm
>>> video, 12 VDC power, and RS-485 control lines will also be protected
>>> at the same ground panel. I’ve found suitable devices for the
>>> camera’s connections.
>>>
>>> AC power is also a concern. A UPS is adequate for 120 VAC equipment
>>> such as computers and monitors but won’t protect 220 VAC devices such
>>> as high power amplifiers. I’m still hoping to find a suitable surge
>>> protector designed for 220 VAC systems to plug between my amplifiers
>>> and the 220 VAC wall connection.
>>>
>>> From an Elecraft perspective, I use fiber-to-ethernet interfaces
>>> between the Remote Rig devices and my network. Thus, if a surge were
>>> to go from the K3’s RS-232 port to the RemoteRig RCC-1258MKII, the
>>> surge won’t be extended through the Remote Rig to the LAN. My
>>> KPA-500 is attached to a RC-1216H (which provides a web interface for
>>> controlling the amplifier) which in turn has a ethernet-to-fiber
>>> interface which protects the network from a surge coming through the
>>> RC-1216H. My KAT-500’s serial line is attached to a Lantronix
>>> Serial-to-Ethernet interface device which in turn is attached to an
>>> ethernet-to-fiber interface. As my rotor controller RS-232 line is
>>> attached to the same Lantronix box, any surge coming from the rotor
>>> interface will also not go through the LAN network. Thus, there are
>>> no RS-232 line connections directly from my ham equipment to a
>>> computer, providing additional isolation for the computers. I can’t
>>> say the same thing about USB connections, as some devices such as a
>>> Fun Cube Dongle won’t work if attached to a USB-to-Ethernet
>>> interface. However, I do use a USB-to-Ethernet device for my
>>> Wavenode WN-2.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Barry Baines, WD4ASW
>>> Westborough, MA
>>> Folkston, GA
>>>
>>>
>>>> Neil Zampella
>>>> KN3ILZ
>>>>
>>>> On 1/5/2016 8:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jerry,
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't use a wired network. I had my shack computer on a wired
>>>>> network when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs,
>>>>> router, modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the
>>>>> PCs), and the Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by
>>>>> the road. When I rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my
>>>>> PCs and have never regretted it.
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
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Frank Krozel

Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge protector at the main breaker?
Frank KG9H

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

Me too. Please post replies to the list.

On 1/6/2016 2:12 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge protector at the main breaker?
> Frank KG9H

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ae5ka

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

Leviton makes some, amongst others. Plenty to see if you Google them. I
like the one that actually replaces your electric meter socket. This puts
the surge protector about as upstream as you can get it.More commonly they
are wired to a breaker in your load center.

Chip
AE5KA

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Me too. Please post replies to the list.
>
>
> On 1/6/2016 2:12 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge
>> protector at the main breaker?
>> Frank KG9H
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Alan Bloom

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by Frank Krozel

I used an Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA whole house surge protector. It should be
installed by a competent electrician.

https://www.platt.com/platt-electric-supply/Surge-Protection-Power-Quality-Panel-Mount/Eaton/CHSPT2ULTRA/Product.aspx?zpid=848511

Alan N1AL

On 01/06/2016 02:12 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge protector at the main breaker?
> Frank KG9H
>
>
>
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George Dubovsky

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

For the last 20 years, I have had a Joslyn 1265-85 at the panel. I'm sure
it's no longer available, but it's a 10x12x6 NEMA 4 box with fist-sized MOV
modules inside with some monitoring circuitry on a small pwb driving 2
front panel LEDs. I am at the very end of a long rural 12.4 kV run in
central VA and, so far so good. (he said, snapping his fingers to keep the
elephants away...).

73,

geo - n4ua

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Me too. Please post replies to the list.
>
> On 1/6/2016 2:12 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge
>> protector at the main breaker?
>> Frank KG9H
>>
>
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ve3ibw

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by Frank Krozel

Leviton 120/240 Single Phase
Transient Voltage Surge Protector
Catalog Number: 51120-1

Have had mine for 25 years.

Regards
Brian
VE3IBW
On Jan 6, 2016 5:13 PM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge
> protector at the main breaker?
> Frank KG9H
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

James Bennett

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

Be sure your electric utility is involved. One of those surge protectors was installed at our house, along with a "smart meter". Turns out those two particular devices, for whatever reason, we're not compatible. The meter overheated and subsequently got so hot the plastic in the housing melted. When it went, it took out the four plugs in the mains panel. Repairs ran close to $500, which the electric utility paid for, since it was one of their installers who put the darn thing in to begin with. Yikes!

Jim Bennett / W6JHB
Folsom, CA

> On Jan 6, 2016, at 2:26 PM, Alan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I used an Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA whole house surge protector. It should be installed by a competent electrician.
>
> https://www.platt.com/platt-electric-supply/Surge-Protection-Power-Quality-Panel-Mount/Eaton/CHSPT2ULTRA/Product.aspx?zpid=848511
>
> Alan N1AL
>
>
>> On 01/06/2016 02:12 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge protector at the main breaker?
>> Frank KG9H
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Lyle Johnson

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

Siemens TPS3A11 was installed here when the service entry was rewired
last summer. Yes, the electrician installed it, not me!

73,

Lyle KK7P

>
> On 01/06/2016 02:12 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge
>> protector at the main breaker?
>> Frank KG9H
>>

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ae5ka

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by ve3ibw

Despite having a whole house surge protector, I also use a series mode
protector from SurgeX. All of the power to my ham gear and my test bench
passes through this one surge protector.

I also have one on the power to the TV/AV Receiver/DVR conglomeration.

Probably should buy one for the cable modem/router/printer/desktop computer
complex too.....

Nothing like like a "belt and suspenders" approach to protecting the
expensive toys.

Chip
AE5KA

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Brian Waterworth <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> Leviton 120/240 Single Phase
> Transient Voltage Surge Protector
> Catalog Number: 51120-1
>
> Have had mine for 25 years.
>
> Regards
> Brian
> VE3IBW
> On Jan 6, 2016 5:13 PM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge
> > protector at the main breaker?
> > Frank KG9H
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Billy Cox

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by Frank Krozel

Large whole house Polyphaser unit, and had it installed by a professional.

73 de Billy, AA4NU

----- Original Message -----
From: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge
protector at the main breaker?

Frank KG9H
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