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wb4jfi

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

I have two 200 amp panels, and each has a Sycom surge protector. I also have a Generac 18kW ( or 20kW?) whole house (with Nexys smart load control) generator, and companion ATS with its own protection.

Keep in mind other services, such as phone, Internet, cable, etc... Mine is bundled, with a limited surge protector on the outside. Unless you have fiber, your cable provider can be very twitchy about you providing your own surge protection.

Also, if you have underground sprinklers, or AC/DC to outside lights, that's another source of induced problems.
73, Terry, N4TLF

Sent from tfox iPad

> On Jan 6, 2016, at 5:12 PM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge protector at the main breaker?
> Frank KG9H
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by ae5ka

On Wed,1/6/2016 2:41 PM, Chip Stratton wrote:

> Despite having a whole house surge protector, I also use a series mode
> protector from SurgeX. All of the power to my ham gear and my test bench
> passes through this one surge protector.
>
> I also have one on the power to the TV/AV Receiver/DVR conglomeration.
>
> Probably should buy one for the cable modem/router/printer/desktop computer
> complex too.....
>
> Nothing like like a "belt and suspenders" approach to protecting the
> expensive toys.

It's more than "belt and suspenders" -- IEEE data shows that up to 3kV
can be generated on wiring inside our homes. So while that whole house
unit clamps stuff coming in on the power lines from outside our home,
it's good to have a SurgeX protecting branch circuits with critical
gear. I have them on my ham gear, my computer gear, my hi-fi gear, and
my XYL's sewing machines.

73, Jim K9YC
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wb4jfi

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by wb4jfi

Sorry for the double-post, but I still use smaller UPS on all electronics, i.e. Computers, TVs, etc. at least six UPS from 350w to 1.5kW. Haven't lost anything since moving into the house, in Charleston, SC.
73, Terry, N4TLF

Sent from tfox iPad

> On Jan 6, 2016, at 6:11 PM, WB4JFI <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have two 200 amp panels, and each has a Sycom surge protector. I also have a Generac 18kW ( or 20kW?) whole house (with Nexys smart load control) generator, and companion ATS with its own protection.
>
> Keep in mind other services, such as phone, Internet, cable, etc... Mine is bundled, with a limited surge protector on the outside. Unless you have fiber, your cable provider can be very twitchy about you providing your own surge protection.
>
> Also, if you have underground sprinklers, or AC/DC to outside lights, that's another source of induced problems.
> 73, Terry, N4TLF
>
> Sent from tfox iPad
>
>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 5:12 PM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge protector at the main breaker?
>> Frank KG9H
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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Fred Townsend-2

Re: Lightning Protection (was-Re: suggested PC???)

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

I would disagree with the use of MOVs at the service entrance unless there are inductors preceding.

The key words in this discussion are protection systems. There is no one component or silver bullet that will protect all. The chances are if you take a direct strike there will be damage so unplugging is still a good idea. You would like any damage to be to cheap things like surge protectors that are easily replaced. Having said that MOVs are cheap but they are not lighting protectors so it is foolhardy to build your principle lightning defense around them. For those wondering a surge is like when the secondary power line falls down on the low voltage line or a lightning strike AFTER the leading edge of the wave front is diminished. In short MOVs work in milliseconds. The leading edge of a lightning burst is in the microsecond range. Transorbs, gas protectors, capacitors, and carbon protectors are shunting devices in networks that work in the microsecond range and can be used at the service entrance.

Series Inductance is a great way to knock off the leading edge but absolutely defeats your protection system when used in the grounding system or green wire. Remember ALL conductors have inductance so shorter is better. Never coil or square a ground wire.

Maintenance of protection systems is essential too. Transorbs and carbons fail shorted. For this reason VDE sometimes requires these type components to be protected by fuses as well. Gas protectors and MOVs fail open. MOVs fail gradually too. Capacitors and inductors take physical damage too and can fail either open or shorted. After your big lightning storm these components should be inspected and replaced if you see black smudges on or around them. MOVs will physically deteriorate and are easy to spot defective ones.

73,
Fred, AE6QL
-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 1:35 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Lightning Protection (was-Re: suggested PC???)

YES!

Another VERY important thing is to NEVER use "MOV surge protectors" on branch circuits. They're great at the service entrance, as Bob recommends, but they CAUSE equipment damage when used on branch circuit, because the MOVs dump the lightning spike onto the Green wire, which creates a high voltage spike on the Green wire. That voltage is different at every outlet and at every piece of gear, and the difference shows up as a common mode voltage between interconnected equipment.
THAT'S what blows up stuff connected by wired Ethernet. We discovered this the hard way about 25 years ago in the pro audio industry.

The ONLY safe surge protectors on branch circuits (that is, next to
equipment) are SERIES MODE protectors. They work by storing the surge in a big inductor, then slowly discharging it. They're more expensive, but they won't blow up your gear. The only mfrs I know of are Brick Wall, Zero Surge, and SurgeX.

Also critical -- bond ALL grounds together, including the shack ground, CATV ground, TELCO ground, etc., and back to the power ground.

73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,1/6/2016 11:35 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Two things I've found to be a big deterrent regarding lightning damage:
>
> (a) all driven grounds must be bonded back to the AC mains ground and
> this must be done outside of the house. I use some 1/2" flexible
> copper water line as my bonding conductor. It is trenched around the
> outside of the foundation about 6" deep from the tower ground and coax
> lightening protection system back to the AC Mains ground some 50 ft away.
>
> (b) Install a whole house surge protector at the main breaker panel.
> These are sometimes referred to as Secondary Surge Protectors.
> Usually should be installed by a qualified licensed electrician.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 1/6/2016 11:52 AM, Barry Baines wrote:
>> Neil:
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Neil Zampella <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> FWIW ... I've got everything setup wired in the shack, but
>>> everything (cable coax, ethernet, power) runs through an
>>> uninterruptible power supply (ups). Many of the higher end models
>>> provide not only power surge protection and battery, but
>>> lightning/surge protection for coax and ethernet.
>>
>> By ‘coax’ do you mean cable TV coax or are you suggesting RF coax for
>> amateur radio transceivers? Clearly, UPS surge protection is not
>> designed for anything on the order that an amateur transmitter (even
>> QRP) can produce. Further, UPS devices presume 75 ohm coax systems,
>> not 50 Ohm as used in amateur radio antennas and transmitters. They
>> are designed to protect a TV antenna or a cable setup box/cable modem.
>>
>> My shack in Georgia was impacted by an indirect hit in 2014 which
>> damaged computers, amplifiers, ethernet switches, and a myriad of
>> gear that was ’networked’ in the shack as well as the house, even
>> though I have Polyphasers on all of my RF cables going into the shack
>> from the tower with an extensive ground system for lightning surges.
>> What I didn’t have was adequate protection on my ethernet, coax from
>> DirecTV, and telco lines in the shack where presumably the surge
>> entered. I didn’t want to go wireless on the LAN because I operate
>> my station remote and wireless connections introduce a potential
>> failure point that can’t be fixed unless I’m there to reset
>> something. Wireless is also slower than wired ethernet.
>>
>> My solution was to purchase Ethernet-to-Fiber converters to isolate
>> my LAN network in the shack from the rest of the LAN in the house as
>> well as provide isolation from individual components from one
>> another. Thus, I ran dual 110 ft. fiber from the house to the
>> hamshack (through existing buried conduit that also carries telco and
>> DirecTV) that will keep surges from coming into the house through the
>> ethernet connections from the shack. I installed switches in the
>> shack that have both LAN and Fiber so that I could isolate nearby
>> components from the network in the shack. I use ethernet-to-fiber
>> converters with short fiber jumpers to individually isolate my high
>> end equipment from the network (such as a Flex-6700 and the
>> computers in the shack). These converters have no impact on the
>> ability of the network to communicate (still 10/100/1000 MB depending
>> upon the component that it protects). I consider this an insurance
>> policy—the cost of the fiber being significantly less than the cost
>> of replacement of damaged equipment. Each converter has a 5V ‘wall
>> wart’ which is plugged into a UPS primarily for surge protection but
>> also keeps the network up in the event of power failure or momentary
>> power fluctuation.
>>
>> I’m still in the process of installing protection for the DirecTV
>> line coming to the shack as well as the telco lines in the shack. I
>> have a central ground panel where I will install the protective
>> devices for telco and DirecTV by the existing RF surge protectors.
>> One challenge is finding a lightning protection device for DirecTV as
>> they feed power through the cable to power the LNB at the dish. When
>> I spoke with a DirecTV technician, he had no suggestions on what to
>> use. There are devices out there, just need to find them. I also
>> have a Speco Technology PTZ analog camera on the tower with 75 ohm
>> video, 12 VDC power, and RS-485 control lines will also be protected
>> at the same ground panel. I’ve found suitable devices for the
>> camera’s connections.
>>
>> AC power is also a concern. A UPS is adequate for 120 VAC equipment
>> such as computers and monitors but won’t protect 220 VAC devices such
>> as high power amplifiers. I’m still hoping to find a suitable surge
>> protector designed for 220 VAC systems to plug between my amplifiers
>> and the 220 VAC wall connection.
>>
>> From an Elecraft perspective, I use fiber-to-ethernet interfaces
>> between the Remote Rig devices and my network. Thus, if a surge were
>> to go from the K3’s RS-232 port to the RemoteRig RCC-1258MKII, the
>> surge won’t be extended through the Remote Rig to the LAN. My
>> KPA-500 is attached to a RC-1216H (which provides a web interface for
>> controlling the amplifier) which in turn has a ethernet-to-fiber
>> interface which protects the network from a surge coming through the
>> RC-1216H. My KAT-500’s serial line is attached to a Lantronix
>> Serial-to-Ethernet interface device which in turn is attached to an
>> ethernet-to-fiber interface. As my rotor controller RS-232 line is
>> attached to the same Lantronix box, any surge coming from the rotor
>> interface will also not go through the LAN network. Thus, there are
>> no RS-232 line connections directly from my ham equipment to a
>> computer, providing additional isolation for the computers. I can’t
>> say the same thing about USB connections, as some devices such as a
>> Fun Cube Dongle won’t work if attached to a USB-to-Ethernet
>> interface. However, I do use a USB-to-Ethernet device for my
>> Wavenode WN-2.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Barry Baines, WD4ASW
>> Westborough, MA
>> Folkston, GA
>>
>>
>>> Neil Zampella
>>> KN3ILZ
>>>
>>> On 1/5/2016 8:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
>>>> Hi Jerry,
>>>>
>>>> Don't use a wired network. I had my shack computer on a wired
>>>> network when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs,
>>>> router, modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the
>>>> PCs), and the Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by
>>>> the road. When I rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my
>>>> PCs and have never regretted it.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> [hidden email]

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Lyle Johnson

Lets end this thread now and take it to direct email between posters, if needed,
as we're flooding the list with a huge number of single topic postings. Its
certainly exceeding the near term topic posting limit.

Please remember that this is the Elecraft list and that most posts shuld pertain
directly to Elecraft product topics. Other more general ham radio postings are
certainly allowed, but please limit those postings and replies to a much smaller
total - typically 5-10.

73,

Eric
Your generally friendly moderator
/elecraft.com/
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by wb4jfi

On Wed,1/6/2016 3:19 PM, WB4JFI wrote:
> Sorry for the double-post, but I still use smaller UPS on all electronics, i.e. Computers, TVs, etc. at least six UPS from 350w to 1.5kW. Haven't lost anything since moving into the house, in Charleston, SC.

Do that with great caution. Nearly all UPS units include MOVs, which,
like any other MOV surge protectors on branch circuits can CAUSE
equipment to be destroyed. If you're going to use a UPS, use a SERIES
MODE between the UPS and the outlet.

73, Jim K9YC
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Bob-270

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by Frank Krozel

Well many years ago while working in New Orleans an electrician recommended these:

http://www.deltala.com/commercial-arrestors.php

I put in an LA302 almost 25 years ago. Did it work, I can't tell as I have
never lost any equipment or any gear except an old Telephone modem. But by the
damage I'm sure to surge was on the phone line not power line. That was based on
where the shorted protection diodes were.Would I have lost anything else had the
LA302 not been there is unknown. Neighbor lost the control board on a dishwasher.

The electrician said that they put these in on the oil rigs in the gulf and they
get hit all the time.

Pick one and "feel" protected.

73,
Bob
K2TK ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR

On 1/6/2016 5:12 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> OK, I am curious, what are you guys using for the whole house surge protector at the main breaker?
> Frank KG9H
>
>

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John Severyn

Re: Lightning Protection (was-Re: suggested PC???)

In reply to this post by Fred Townsend-2

As Fred mentioned, MOVs gradually fail. And the failure mechanism is a
gradual reduction of the "trigger voltage". As the trigger voltage
slowly drops, the MOVs start disappating power at the very peak of the
AC line voltage. If you are lucky, you find a warm device. But most
often they fail sight-unseen. Once in a while if installed in a plastic
"outlet extender", they start a fire. Beware.

John AF6QO

On 1/6/2016 3:28 PM, Fred Townsend wrote:

> I would disagree with the use of MOVs at the service entrance unless there are inductors preceding.
>
> The key words in this discussion are protection systems. There is no one component or silver bullet that will protect all. The chances are if you take a direct strike there will be damage so unplugging is still a good idea. You would like any damage to be to cheap things like surge protectors that are easily replaced. Having said that MOVs are cheap but they are not lighting protectors so it is foolhardy to build your principle lightning defense around them. For those wondering a surge is like when the secondary power line falls down on the low voltage line or a lightning strike AFTER the leading edge of the wave front is diminished. In short MOVs work in milliseconds. The leading edge of a lightning burst is in the microsecond range. Transorbs, gas protectors, capacitors, and carbon protectors are shunting devices in networks that work in the microsecond range and can be used at the service entrance.
>
> Series Inductance is a great way to knock off the leading edge but absolutely defeats your protection system when used in the grounding system or green wire. Remember ALL conductors have inductance so shorter is better. Never coil or square a ground wire.
>
> Maintenance of protection systems is essential too. Transorbs and carbons fail shorted. For this reason VDE sometimes requires these type components to be protected by fuses as well. Gas protectors and MOVs fail open. MOVs fail gradually too. Capacitors and inductors take physical damage too and can fail either open or shorted. After your big lightning storm these components should be inspected and replaced if you see black smudges on or around them. MOVs will physically deteriorate and are easy to spot defective ones.
>
> 73,
> Fred, AE6QL
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
> Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 1:35 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Lightning Protection (was-Re: suggested PC???)
>
> YES!
>
> Another VERY important thing is to NEVER use "MOV surge protectors" on branch circuits. They're great at the service entrance, as Bob recommends, but they CAUSE equipment damage when used on branch circuit, because the MOVs dump the lightning spike onto the Green wire, which creates a high voltage spike on the Green wire. That voltage is different at every outlet and at every piece of gear, and the difference shows up as a common mode voltage between interconnected equipment.
> THAT'S what blows up stuff connected by wired Ethernet. We discovered this the hard way about 25 years ago in the pro audio industry.
>
> The ONLY safe surge protectors on branch circuits (that is, next to
> equipment) are SERIES MODE protectors. They work by storing the surge in a big inductor, then slowly discharging it. They're more expensive, but they won't blow up your gear. The only mfrs I know of are Brick Wall, Zero Surge, and SurgeX.
>
> Also critical -- bond ALL grounds together, including the shack ground, CATV ground, TELCO ground, etc., and back to the power ground.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> On Wed,1/6/2016 11:35 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Two things I've found to be a big deterrent regarding lightning damage:
>>
>> (a) all driven grounds must be bonded back to the AC mains ground and
>> this must be done outside of the house. I use some 1/2" flexible
>> copper water line as my bonding conductor. It is trenched around the
>> outside of the foundation about 6" deep from the tower ground and coax
>> lightening protection system back to the AC Mains ground some 50 ft away.
>>
>> (b) Install a whole house surge protector at the main breaker panel.
>> These are sometimes referred to as Secondary Surge Protectors.
>> Usually should be installed by a qualified licensed electrician.
>>
>> 73
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> On 1/6/2016 11:52 AM, Barry Baines wrote:
>>> Neil:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Neil Zampella <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> FWIW ... I've got everything setup wired in the shack, but
>>>> everything (cable coax, ethernet, power) runs through an
>>>> uninterruptible power supply (ups). Many of the higher end models
>>>> provide not only power surge protection and battery, but
>>>> lightning/surge protection for coax and ethernet.
>>> By ‘coax’ do you mean cable TV coax or are you suggesting RF coax for
>>> amateur radio transceivers? Clearly, UPS surge protection is not
>>> designed for anything on the order that an amateur transmitter (even
>>> QRP) can produce. Further, UPS devices presume 75 ohm coax systems,
>>> not 50 Ohm as used in amateur radio antennas and transmitters. They
>>> are designed to protect a TV antenna or a cable setup box/cable modem.
>>>
>>> My shack in Georgia was impacted by an indirect hit in 2014 which
>>> damaged computers, amplifiers, ethernet switches, and a myriad of
>>> gear that was ’networked’ in the shack as well as the house, even
>>> though I have Polyphasers on all of my RF cables going into the shack
>>> from the tower with an extensive ground system for lightning surges.
>>> What I didn’t have was adequate protection on my ethernet, coax from
>>> DirecTV, and telco lines in the shack where presumably the surge
>>> entered. I didn’t want to go wireless on the LAN because I operate
>>> my station remote and wireless connections introduce a potential
>>> failure point that can’t be fixed unless I’m there to reset
>>> something. Wireless is also slower than wired ethernet.
>>>
>>> My solution was to purchase Ethernet-to-Fiber converters to isolate
>>> my LAN network in the shack from the rest of the LAN in the house as
>>> well as provide isolation from individual components from one
>>> another. Thus, I ran dual 110 ft. fiber from the house to the
>>> hamshack (through existing buried conduit that also carries telco and
>>> DirecTV) that will keep surges from coming into the house through the
>>> ethernet connections from the shack. I installed switches in the
>>> shack that have both LAN and Fiber so that I could isolate nearby
>>> components from the network in the shack. I use ethernet-to-fiber
>>> converters with short fiber jumpers to individually isolate my high
>>> end equipment from the network (such as a Flex-6700 and the
>>> computers in the shack). These converters have no impact on the
>>> ability of the network to communicate (still 10/100/1000 MB depending
>>> upon the component that it protects). I consider this an insurance
>>> policy—the cost of the fiber being significantly less than the cost
>>> of replacement of damaged equipment. Each converter has a 5V ‘wall
>>> wart’ which is plugged into a UPS primarily for surge protection but
>>> also keeps the network up in the event of power failure or momentary
>>> power fluctuation.
>>>
>>> I’m still in the process of installing protection for the DirecTV
>>> line coming to the shack as well as the telco lines in the shack. I
>>> have a central ground panel where I will install the protective
>>> devices for telco and DirecTV by the existing RF surge protectors.
>>> One challenge is finding a lightning protection device for DirecTV as
>>> they feed power through the cable to power the LNB at the dish. When
>>> I spoke with a DirecTV technician, he had no suggestions on what to
>>> use. There are devices out there, just need to find them. I also
>>> have a Speco Technology PTZ analog camera on the tower with 75 ohm
>>> video, 12 VDC power, and RS-485 control lines will also be protected
>>> at the same ground panel. I’ve found suitable devices for the
>>> camera’s connections.
>>>
>>> AC power is also a concern. A UPS is adequate for 120 VAC equipment
>>> such as computers and monitors but won’t protect 220 VAC devices such
>>> as high power amplifiers. I’m still hoping to find a suitable surge
>>> protector designed for 220 VAC systems to plug between my amplifiers
>>> and the 220 VAC wall connection.
>>>
>>> From an Elecraft perspective, I use fiber-to-ethernet interfaces
>>> between the Remote Rig devices and my network. Thus, if a surge were
>>> to go from the K3’s RS-232 port to the RemoteRig RCC-1258MKII, the
>>> surge won’t be extended through the Remote Rig to the LAN. My
>>> KPA-500 is attached to a RC-1216H (which provides a web interface for
>>> controlling the amplifier) which in turn has a ethernet-to-fiber
>>> interface which protects the network from a surge coming through the
>>> RC-1216H. My KAT-500’s serial line is attached to a Lantronix
>>> Serial-to-Ethernet interface device which in turn is attached to an
>>> ethernet-to-fiber interface. As my rotor controller RS-232 line is
>>> attached to the same Lantronix box, any surge coming from the rotor
>>> interface will also not go through the LAN network. Thus, there are
>>> no RS-232 line connections directly from my ham equipment to a
>>> computer, providing additional isolation for the computers. I can’t
>>> say the same thing about USB connections, as some devices such as a
>>> Fun Cube Dongle won’t work if attached to a USB-to-Ethernet
>>> interface. However, I do use a USB-to-Ethernet device for my
>>> Wavenode WN-2.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Barry Baines, WD4ASW
>>> Westborough, MA
>>> Folkston, GA
>>>
>>>
>>>> Neil Zampella
>>>> KN3ILZ
>>>>
>>>> On 1/5/2016 8:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jerry,
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't use a wired network. I had my shack computer on a wired
>>>>> network when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs,
>>>>> router, modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the
>>>>> PCs), and the Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by
>>>>> the road. When I rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my
>>>>> PCs and have never regretted it.
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John K9UWA-2

Re: Whole house surge protector at the main breaker?

In reply to this post by Billy Cox

Neil Zampella

Re: Lightning Protection (was-Re: suggested PC???)

In reply to this post by Barry Baines

Sorry, should have been more specific. I'm talking TV cable coax, which
goes though the UPS surge suppression system, rudimentary, but it works
where I'm at currently.

That said, you've given me some ideas on what to do when we eventually
move to someplace where I can put up more than a 60 foot end fed :)

73s,

Neil Z.
KN3ILZ

On 1/6/2016 12:52 PM, Barry Baines wrote:

> Neil:
>
>
>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Neil Zampella <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> FWIW ... I've got everything setup wired in the shack, but everything (cable coax, ethernet, power) runs through an uninterruptible power supply (ups). Many of the higher end models provide not only power surge protection and battery, but lightning/surge protection for coax and ethernet.
>
> By ‘coax’ do you mean cable TV coax or are you suggesting RF coax for amateur radio transceivers? Clearly, UPS surge protection is not designed for anything on the order that an amateur transmitter (even QRP) can produce. Further, UPS devices presume 75 ohm coax systems, not 50 Ohm as used in amateur radio antennas and transmitters. They are designed to protect a TV antenna or a cable setup box/cable modem.
>
> My shack in Georgia was impacted by an indirect hit in 2014 which damaged computers, amplifiers, ethernet switches, and a myriad of gear that was ’networked’ in the shack as well as the house, even though I have Polyphasers on all of my RF cables going into the shack from the tower with an extensive ground system for lightning surges. What I didn’t have was adequate protection on my ethernet, coax from DirecTV, and telco lines in the shack where presumably the surge entered. I didn’t want to go wireless on the LAN because I operate my station remote and wireless connections introduce a potential failure point that can’t be fixed unless I’m there to reset something. Wireless is also slower than wired ethernet.
>
> My solution was to purchase Ethernet-to-Fiber converters to isolate my LAN network in the shack from the rest of the LAN in the house as well as provide isolation from individual components from one another. Thus, I ran dual 110 ft. fiber from the house to the hamshack (through existing buried conduit that also carries telco and DirecTV) that will keep surges from coming into the house through the ethernet connections from the shack. I installed switches in the shack that have both LAN and Fiber so that I could isolate nearby components from the network in the shack. I use ethernet-to-fiber converters with short fiber jumpers to individually isolate my high end equipment from the network (such as a Flex-6700 and the computers in the shack). These converters have no impact on the ability of the network to communicate (still 10/100/1000 MB depending upon the component that it protects). I consider this an insurance policy—the cost of the fiber being significantly less than the cost of replacement of damaged equipment. Each converter has a 5V ‘wall wart’ which is plugged into a UPS primarily for surge protection but also keeps the network up in the event of power failure or momentary power fluctuation.
>
> I’m still in the process of installing protection for the DirecTV line coming to the shack as well as the telco lines in the shack. I have a central ground panel where I will install the protective devices for telco and DirecTV by the existing RF surge protectors. One challenge is finding a lightning protection device for DirecTV as they feed power through the cable to power the LNB at the dish. When I spoke with a DirecTV technician, he had no suggestions on what to use. There are devices out there, just need to find them. I also have a Speco Technology PTZ analog camera on the tower with 75 ohm video, 12 VDC power, and RS-485 control lines will also be protected at the same ground panel. I’ve found suitable devices for the camera’s connections.
>
> AC power is also a concern. A UPS is adequate for 120 VAC equipment such as computers and monitors but won’t protect 220 VAC devices such as high power amplifiers. I’m still hoping to find a suitable surge protector designed for 220 VAC systems to plug between my amplifiers and the 220 VAC wall connection.
>
> From an Elecraft perspective, I use fiber-to-ethernet interfaces between the Remote Rig devices and my network. Thus, if a surge were to go from the K3’s RS-232 port to the RemoteRig RCC-1258MKII, the surge won’t be extended through the Remote Rig to the LAN. My KPA-500 is attached to a RC-1216H (which provides a web interface for controlling the amplifier) which in turn has a ethernet-to-fiber interface which protects the network from a surge coming through the RC-1216H. My KAT-500’s serial line is attached to a Lantronix Serial-to-Ethernet interface device which in turn is attached to an ethernet-to-fiber interface. As my rotor controller RS-232 line is attached to the same Lantronix box, any surge coming from the rotor interface will also not go through the LAN network. Thus, there are no RS-232 line connections directly from my ham equipment to a computer, providing additional isolation for the computers. I can’t say the same thing about USB connections, as some devices such as a Fun Cube Dongle won’t work if attached to a USB-to-Ethernet interface. However, I do use a USB-to-Ethernet device for my Wavenode WN-2.
>
>
>
> 73,
>
> Barry Baines, WD4ASW
> Westborough, MA
> Folkston, GA
>
>
>> Neil Zampella
>> KN3ILZ
>>
>> On 1/5/2016 8:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
>>> Hi Jerry,
>>>
>>> Don't use a wired network. I had my shack computer on a wired network when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.
>>>
>>> Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs, router, modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the PCs), and the Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by the road. When I rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have never regretted it.
>

Mike Harris-9

KIO3B Installation Instructions

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

G'day,

Just downloaded the KIO3B installation instructions and in "Appendix A -
K144XV Cabling" page 16, the written reference to Figure 16 and 17 on
page 16 is the reverse of the illustrations Figure 16 and 17 on page 17.

Didn't notice if there was an errata, wasn't looking for one this early.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

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