zero beat detector with KX1?
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I was interested in WA5ZNU’s recent post about
tri-state and side tone levels on the KX1. Can’t claim to
understand it completely—I am a lowly biologist… Anyway, I have been interested in building some version of a
visual zero beat detector that uses a PLL tone-decoder IC for use with the KX1.
I have read about the TU es 73, Eric N0HHS KX1 #670 |
Re: zero beat detector with KX1?
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>
Eric Ward wrote: > ....I have been interested in building some version of a visual zero > beat detector that uses a PLL tone-decoder IC for use with the KX1. I > have > read about the K2 guys using N0SS's PC board version of the circuit > designed > by KR5L. Has anyone tried it (or the Jackson Harbor Press kit, or any > such > similar) with the KX1? Is the side tone too fuzzy/harmonically rich > to make > it work? Hi Eric, Tom Hammond has put the tone detector in a KX1, I believe. But I think he's off-line for a few days, since he's visiting here in California. On another topic, you wrote: > I was interested in WA5ZNU's recent post about tri-state and side tone > levels on the KX1. Can't claim to understand it completely-I am a > lowly > biologist. It must be frustrating to be a biologist these days, watching species disappear, oceans warm, ice caps melt, habitat destroyed, and very little being done about it by the world's largest polluters. At least it's frustrating for me! Of course any discussion of this topic should be OFF the reflector :) 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Greetings all,
Just finished installing and adjusting Tom's zero beat detector, and I must echo others when I say that once again, Tom has a winner here. The little board was easy to assemble, SMT construction notwithstanding, and worked perfectly the first time. Real nice goin' and thanks, Tom! 73, Van W1WCG K2#2634/KX1/#306 > > > Eric Ward wrote: > > > ....I have been interested in building some version of a visual zero > > beat detector that uses a PLL tone-decoder IC for use with the KX1. I > > have > > read about the K2 guys using N0SS's PC board version of the circuit > > designed > > by KR5L. Has anyone tried it (or the Jackson Harbor Press kit, or any > > such > > similar) with the KX1? Is the side tone too fuzzy/harmonically rich > > to make > > it work? > > > Hi Eric, > > Tom Hammond has put the tone detector in a KX1, I believe. But I think > he's off-line for a few days, since he's visiting here in California. > > On another topic, you wrote: > > > I was interested in WA5ZNU's recent post about tri-state and side tone > > levels on the KX1. Can't claim to understand it completely-I am a > > lowly > > biologist. > > It must be frustrating to be a biologist these days, watching species > disappear, oceans warm, ice caps melt, habitat destroyed, and very > little being done about it by the world's largest polluters. At least > it's frustrating for me! > > Of course any discussion of this topic should be OFF the reflector :) > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > > --- > > http://www.elecraft.com > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Eric Ward-3
Greetings, Wayne and Eric -
I consider myself privileged to be one of first, if not the first, Ham to build Tom Hammond's SMD PC Board CW Tuning Indicator kit for my KX1, using the KX1 Lamp to perform double duty as both a light and a tuning lock indicator as well (no holes to drill in the KX1 enclosure!!). Tom's SMD PC board design for the K6XX CW Tuning Indicator is truly a clever and tremendously useful modification for the K2, and most recently for the KX1 as well. The SMD board can be installed easily without having to remove the ATU or the KX1 PC boards. Tom provided timely guidance to me for my KX1 project most recently with fast response to my questions and perfect suggestions for solutions to problems, some of which I didn't even know I had. Tom's SMD board *floats* very nicely beneath U1 on the bottom of the ATU board, in its protective electrical tape wrapping. Alignment is a very simple procedure because the CW Tuning Indicator *hears* your KX1 sidetone when in the STP menu mode; one simply adjust the trimpot to a position in the center of travel of the pot for the steady light state. When the Light is in the CW Tuning Indicator mode, one may use the steady light by turning on the Lamp which overrides the Tuning Indicator. BTW, one does NOT have to look directly into the Lamp during the alignment or signal lock procedures to observe when the light is flickering and when it is steady (see *LED Tests,* Item 1., on Page 28 of the KX1 Owner's Manual, that advises one not ). Wayne, thanks again for the KX1! Regards es 73, Pete NU6Q > [Original Message] > From: wayne burdick <[hidden email]> > To: Eric Ward <[hidden email]> > Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> > Date: 12/1/2004 11:49:51 AM > Subject: [Elecraft] Re: zero beat detector with KX1? > > > > Eric Ward wrote: > > > ....I have been interested in building some version of a visual zero > > beat detector that uses a PLL tone-decoder IC for use with the KX1. I > > have > > read about the K2 guys using N0SS's PC board version of the circuit > > designed > > by KR5L. Has anyone tried it (or the Jackson Harbor Press kit, or any > > such > > similar) with the KX1? Is the side tone too fuzzy/harmonically rich > > to make > > it work? > > > Hi Eric, > > Tom Hammond has put the tone detector in a KX1, I believe. But I think > he's off-line for a few days, since he's visiting here in California. > > On another topic, you wrote: > > > I was interested in WA5ZNU's recent post about tri-state and side tone > > levels on the KX1. Can't claim to understand it completely-I am a > > lowly > > biologist. > > It must be frustrating to be a biologist these days, watching species > disappear, oceans warm, ice caps melt, habitat destroyed, and very > little being done about it by the world's largest polluters. At least > it's frustrating for me! > > Of course any discussion of this topic should be OFF the reflector :) > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > > --- > > http://www.elecraft.com > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: zero beat detector with KX1?
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In reply to this post by Eric Ward-3
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 9:11 am, Eric Ward wrote:
> I was interested in WA5ZNU's recent post about tri-state and side tone > levels on the KX1. Eric, My proposal requires hardware and firmware changes to the KX1 and was somewhat telegraphic as it was aimed at Elecraft. N6KR has I am sure already figured out a better way to accomplish my ask...I think all of the interest in CW zero beat on the list may help raise the priority, though. (One problem is that my proposal has some current draw as it requires biasing...maybe there is a way around it, or maybe there is another way to achieve the desired result of easier CW tuning on the KX1.) Here is my long description of the issue, with background in response to your question. When you have a QSO, you generally you want to be on the same frequency as the OM. (Ok, ignore split and repeaters.) With SSB you tune about until the OM or YL sounds good. Our brains do this fairly easily. With CW though, you need to do a little work. With separate transmitters and receivers, hams used to "spot" the signal with a low-power TX and listen at the same time, and match the pitch. Even so, after calling CQ you often had to tune up and down a few KC to find an answer. A transceiver, though, shares enough parts internally that there are shortcuts. Usually transceivers use the same pitch for the CW sidetone as the transmit offset, mimicing the sound that the OM will hear if both of you are both transmitting on the eame frequency. (You effecively listen at an offset, and this offset is the CW tone you hear, plus or minus the carrier frequency. That is what CW and CWR are about. If you were receiving and transmitting on the exact same frequency then you would hear a 0Hz tone, i.e. nothing, so the BFO offset takes care of that.) Since the RX and TX are coupled by a fixed offset in a transceiver, the question devolves to how to set the RX frequency quickly and accurately. Assuming a fixed offset (say, 600Hz default on the Elecraft KX1 and K2 rigs) then your task when tuning is to set your RX frequency such that the OM's CW tone sounds like 600Hz. Then you will be assured of transmitting on the same frequency as the OM. The trick is for you how to do this. Here are three ways: 1. Tune for loudest signal This, coupled with a bit of pitch recognition, is what most hams do. It is pretty easy and works unless your KX1 variable crystal filter is set too tightly, say below 500 Hz, in which case the maximum volume point shifts a bit and you need to use RIT to get it back to the filter center. So it is slightly less convenient to do this on the KX1 than on the K2, which lets you preset the BFO setting for each filter width to accomodate for this shift. 2 Tune until you hear 600Hz audio. 2a This is easy if you have perfect pitch. 2b If not, you can use a music tuner (see my previous message). 2c Use one of the PLL-based devices that N0SS has been providing and various folks have designed, to light up an LED. 3. Turn on the sidetone and tune until they are both the same pitch. This works FB on the K2 and many other rigs, and you just tune until you hear the OM "disappear" behind the sidetone or until you hear the minimum wah-wah-wah beating sound. Most folks use #1 or #3, but you can't use #3 on the KX1 because the KX1 mutes the sidetone during operation, and I believe it is because there weren't enough volume levels available on the KX1 sidetone to allow it to be adjusted to a comfortable level for TX sidetone and a louder level for matching that 599+ OM. So, you cannot press the sidetone test menu and tune the RX and listen for the two tones (sidetone and the OM you are listening to) to match. This is the issue that my previous message about the PIC chip was designed to address. Also, the sidetone is lightly-filtered square wave, thus having strong 3rd and 5th harmonics. Some hams are tone-deaf enough to try to beat the OM's signal at 6*3=1800Hz, or to accidently beat QRM nearby against it. The extra levels could be used to generate more of a sine wave, by stepping the output voltage during the sidetone generation, but the amount of code space and effort this would take is probably not worth it, and I suspect analog filtering with an additional capacitor would do the same job more cheaply. If you got this far, you have a lot of patience! 73, Leigh WA5ZNU _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: zero beat detector with KX1?
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Alas! I suppose the KX1 does not have a separate audio oscillator that you
can trigger in receive. I did this on my old OHR Spirit with a pushbutton and one or two diodes. Works like a charm. But many other QRP rigs I guess sample the transmitted signal. Wait! You said that it has a sidetone square wave. I guess with the microprocessor you can't trigger it without a software change. Too bad. OK, now I understand. Yes, having a spot tone in receive to zero beat your prey is a killer way to get someone to reply to you. Makes establishing a CW contact very efficeint. Hope you get your way with the KX1, although it is a bare bones adventure type of rig. However, I would certainly except this feature on the K1. Sorry for the rambling. Steve, W2MY Leigh said: > 3. Turn on the sidetone and tune until they are both the same pitch. > This works FB on the K2 and many other rigs, and you just tune until you hear > the OM "disappear" behind the sidetone or until you hear the minimum wah-wah-wah beating sound. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 11/26/2004 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: zero beat detector with KX1?
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In reply to this post by Eric Ward-3
"Leigh L Klotz, Jr." <[hidden email]> wrote :
>1. Tune for loudest signal >This, coupled with a bit of pitch recognition, is what most hams do. It >is pretty easy and works unless your KX1 variable crystal filter is set >too tightly, say below 500 Hz, in which case the maximum volume point >shifts a bit and you need to use RIT to get it back to the filter >center. This is the technique that I use and it works well if you set the variable filter to about 500 hz, no less. Leigh is correct that if you tighten the filter down too tight the passband center tends to shift down and this no longer works (route the audio output of the rig through Spectogram and you can clearly see this). I have found with a bit of practice I can nail the zerobeat right on almost everytime using this technique. Michael VE3WMB _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: zero beat detector with KX1?
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
>Eric Ward wrote: > >>....I have been interested in building some version of a visual zero >>beat detector that uses a PLL tone-decoder IC for use with the KX1. I have >>read about the K2 guys using N0SS's PC board version of the circuit designed >>by KR5L. Has anyone tried it (or the Jackson Harbor Press kit, or any such >>similar) with the KX1? Is the side tone too fuzzy/harmonically rich to make >>it work? Then ... At 10:51 AM 12/1/04, wayne burdick wrote: >Tom Hammond has put the tone detector in a KX1, I believe. But I think >he's off-line for a few days, since he's visiting here in California. Hi folks: Just returned home... whew! Great time out on The Left Coast, but ready to be back here as well... Regarding the CW Tuning Indicator installed in a KX1... I think Wayne nearly passed out when I told him we'd managed to get the device installed and moreover, installed using the MAP LIGHT as the indicator, so that no holes had to be drilled... and nothing was hanging out either!!! Kudos to Pete Ames, NU6Q, who actually performed the installation on his KX1 (I no longer have the KX1 I built, it want to Wayne as a 'bench rig'). Pete followed my instructions and it appears the install went without significant screaming gnashing of teeth!!! We did have a couple false starts, but things came together nicely in the end. First off... for anyone who thinks about installing the CW Tuning Indicator into their KX1, drop me a note for my (so far UNpublished) notes on the installation AND for some pics from Pete of his completed install. The connections to the KX1 for DC, GND, and LED are very straightforward. However, the AF input to the Tuning Indicator is not taken from the input to the AF amp is done for the K2 and K1.. too much digital noise... but it is taken from the OUTPUT of the AF Amp via a 50:1 voltage divider (47k and 1k) to ensure that we didn't overdrive the PLL. I'm working on a set of KX1 installation docs which will be INCLUDED in the general assembly and alignment docs for the CW Tuning Indicator. I'm also working on installation docs for the K1, but we still need to hammer out the best way of installing the LED itself WITHOUT having to drill a hole... one option will be to illuminate (with a contrasting color) one edge (or possibly a corner) of the LCD display. But this remains to be solidified a bit more. I do have connection data available as well for the asking. 73, Tom Hammond N0SS _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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