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A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

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wayne burdick

A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

Administrator

Suppose we provide a menu option that, when engaged, results in this behavior:

- If you're NOT in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "NON.SPLT" on VFO B. (A is TX in this case.)

- If you ARE in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "SPLIT" on VFO A. (B is TX in this case.)

So, during keying in either case, the TX frequency is still displayed (you need to know that), but the RX display is used to provide a warning.

The time constant for these displayed messages would coincide with the change in metering from RX to TX. Thus the "NON.SPLT" or "SPLIT" would come on when you key, and stay on for at least 300 ms, the timer being retriggered each time you key. To get an idea of what that would look like, just watch the RX and TX metering scales as you key the radio.

It's not a "flashing" message, per se, but if you were calling a DX station on the order of every few seconds, the message would come and go to get your attention.

It has the advantage of being quite obvious since it changes the entire contents of one of the VFO displays, and both are very close to the VFO A knob, where the action is.

Wayne
N6KR

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Dave-7

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

I dunno . . .

What we are doing is attempting to address an op who is not paying
attention. But, if the op is not paying attention, how is any of this
going to have any effect? I think it is all a waste of time and effort.

If someone is not paying attention, they are not paying attention, and
the *only* cure is for them to being paying attention to what they are
doing.

I don't think the various band aids being discussed will help. The guy
is still not going to be paying attention. He is distracted by
something else.

I would suggest that the time spent, which might well be wasted on
this project, be used for something more productive. The K3 is fine as
it is. It is the op that is the problem, not the K3.

73 de dave
ab9ca/4

On 2/18/15 9:02 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Suppose we provide a menu option that, when engaged, results in this behavior:
>
> - If you're NOT in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "NON.SPLT" on VFO B. (A is TX in this case.)
>
> - If you ARE in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "SPLIT" on VFO A. (B is TX in this case.)
>
> So, during keying in either case, the TX frequency is still displayed (you need to know that), but the RX display is used to provide a warning.
>
> The time constant for these displayed messages would coincide with the change in metering from RX to TX. Thus the "NON.SPLT" or "SPLIT" would come on when you key, and stay on for at least 300 ms, the timer being retriggered each time you key. To get an idea of what that would look like, just watch the RX and TX metering scales as you key the radio.
>
> It's not a "flashing" message, per se, but if you were calling a DX station on the order of every few seconds, the message would come and go to get your attention.
>
> It has the advantage of being quite obvious since it changes the entire contents of one of the VFO displays, and both are very close to the VFO A knob, where the action is.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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mike

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Although I don't have a major problem the way it works now, I think the change you suggest would actually help. There are times when I have made the error of not operating split when I have wanted to, in spite of the current indicators. I do watch the frequency readouts, so emphasizing the SPLIT there I think would be a good upgrade. 73 ..mike AI6II

Carey Magee

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Hi All:

Would this be able to be set as an option in the Menu/Config Menu? I
currently am fine with split indication. If I include my logging program I
currently have 4 indicators to remind me.

Thanks

73,
Carey Magee, K2RNY
Rochester New York
Grid: FN13ef
[hidden email]

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Suppose we provide a menu option that, when engaged, results in this
> behavior:
>
> - If you're NOT in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "NON.SPLT" on VFO B. (A is
> TX in this case.)
>
> - If you ARE in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "SPLIT" on VFO A. (B is TX in
> this case.)
>
> So, during keying in either case, the TX frequency is still displayed (you
> need to know that), but the RX display is used to provide a warning.
>
> The time constant for these displayed messages would coincide with the
> change in metering from RX to TX. Thus the "NON.SPLT" or "SPLIT" would come
> on when you key, and stay on for at least 300 ms, the timer being
> retriggered each time you key. To get an idea of what that would look like,
> just watch the RX and TX metering scales as you key the radio.
>
> It's not a "flashing" message, per se, but if you were calling a DX
> station on the order of every few seconds, the message would come and go to
> get your attention.
>
> It has the advantage of being quite obvious since it changes the entire
> contents of one of the VFO displays, and both are very close to the VFO A
> knob, where the action is.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

wayne burdick

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

Administrator

Any change we make in the way split is indicated would have to be enabled using a menu entry. The present behavior will remain the default.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Feb 18, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Carey Magee <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi All:
>
> Would this be able to be set as an option in the Menu/Config Menu? I currently am fine with split indication. If I include my logging program I currently have 4 indicators to remind me.
>
> Thanks
>
> 73,
> Carey Magee, K2RNY
> Rochester New York
> Grid: FN13ef
> [hidden email]
>
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Suppose we provide a menu option that, when engaged, results in this behavior:
>
> - If you're NOT in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "NON.SPLT" on VFO B. (A is TX in this case.)
>
> - If you ARE in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "SPLIT" on VFO A. (B is TX in this case.)
>
> So, during keying in either case, the TX frequency is still displayed (you need to know that), but the RX display is used to provide a warning.
>
> The time constant for these displayed messages would coincide with the change in metering from RX to TX. Thus the "NON.SPLT" or "SPLIT" would come on when you key, and stay on for at least 300 ms, the timer being retriggered each time you key. To get an idea of what that would look like, just watch the RX and TX metering scales as you key the radio.
>
> It's not a "flashing" message, per se, but if you were calling a DX station on the order of every few seconds, the message would come and go to get your attention.
>
> It has the advantage of being quite obvious since it changes the entire contents of one of the VFO displays, and both are very close to the VFO A knob, where the action is.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

NK7Z

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne,
If the user has a P3 connected, please consider the addition of
something on the P3 to indicate split. Most of my eye action is on the
P3 in a pileup, not on the frequency.
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 07:02 -0800, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Ted Roycraft-2

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Bingo! No amount of flashing on the K3 screen is going to correct poor
operating habits. Nothing can substitute for good operating practices
which become habits. It takes 2 seconds to check the K3 status before
sending. Make a habit. If you don't do that, you won't see anything
flashing on the screen either.

I think that one menu item that is already there that can help is "SPLIT
SV". Set it to "YES".

73, Ted, W2ZK

On 2/18/2015 10:17 AM, dave wrote:

>
> I dunno . . .
>
> What we are doing is attempting to address an op who is not paying
> attention. But, if the op is not paying attention, how is any of this
> going to have any effect? I think it is all a waste of time and effort.
>
> If someone is not paying attention, they are not paying attention, and
> the *only* cure is for them to being paying attention to what they are
> doing.
>
> I don't think the various band aids being discussed will help. The guy
> is still not going to be paying attention. He is distracted by
> something else.
>
> I would suggest that the time spent, which might well be wasted on
> this project, be used for something more productive. The K3 is fine as
> it is. It is the op that is the problem, not the K3.
>
> 73 de dave
> ab9ca/4
>
>
>
> On 2/18/15 9:02 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> Suppose we provide a menu option that, when engaged, results in this
>> behavior:
>>
>> - If you're NOT in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "NON.SPLT" on VFO B.
>> (A is TX in this case.)
>>
>> - If you ARE in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "SPLIT" on VFO A. (B is
>> TX in this case.)
>>
>> So, during keying in either case, the TX frequency is still displayed
>> (you need to know that), but the RX display is used to provide a
>> warning.
>>
>> The time constant for these displayed messages would coincide with
>> the change in metering from RX to TX. Thus the "NON.SPLT" or "SPLIT"
>> would come on when you key, and stay on for at least 300 ms, the
>> timer being retriggered each time you key. To get an idea of what
>> that would look like, just watch the RX and TX metering scales as you
>> key the radio.
>>
>> It's not a "flashing" message, per se, but if you were calling a DX
>> station on the order of every few seconds, the message would come and
>> go to get your attention.
>>
>> It has the advantage of being quite obvious since it changes the
>> entire contents of one of the VFO displays, and both are very close
>> to the VFO A knob, where the action is.
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

NK7Z

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Dave (AB9CA),

Given your logic, we should get rid of all street signs, and stop
lights, and guard rails on bridges, and roads, because the drivers are
just initiative, and the crutch o guard rails is not needed for them.

Implicit in your statement, is the assumption that the provided
indicators are sufficient, which all of this traffic would seem to
indicate is not the case.
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 09:17 -0600, dave wrote:
> I dunno . . .
>
> What we are doing is attempting to address an op who is not paying
> attention. But, if the op is not paying attention, how is any of this
> going to have any effect? I think it is all a waste of time and effort.

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Chester Alderman

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Dave,

I think what you are saying is exactly the case. Bless their soul, Elecraft
is trying to solve a human issue because folks don't pay attention to what
they are doing. The K3 works just fine and it is, in my opinion, NOT
Elecrafts task to solve the human issue.

73,
Tom - W4BQF

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of dave
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 10:17 AM
To: Wayne Burdick; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

I dunno . . .

What we are doing is attempting to address an op who is not paying
attention. But, if the op is not paying attention, how is any of this going
to have any effect? I think it is all a waste of time and effort.

If someone is not paying attention, they are not paying attention, and the
*only* cure is for them to being paying attention to what they are doing.

I don't think the various band aids being discussed will help. The guy is
still not going to be paying attention. He is distracted by something else.

I would suggest that the time spent, which might well be wasted on this
project, be used for something more productive. The K3 is fine as it is. It
is the op that is the problem, not the K3.

73 de dave
ab9ca/4

On 2/18/15 9:02 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> Suppose we provide a menu option that, when engaged, results in this
behavior:
>
> - If you're NOT in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "NON.SPLT" on VFO B. (A
> is TX in this case.)
>
> - If you ARE in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "SPLIT" on VFO A. (B is TX
> in this case.)
>
> So, during keying in either case, the TX frequency is still displayed (you
need to know that), but the RX display is used to provide a warning.
>
> The time constant for these displayed messages would coincide with the
change in metering from RX to TX. Thus the "NON.SPLT" or "SPLIT" would come
on when you key, and stay on for at least 300 ms, the timer being
retriggered each time you key. To get an idea of what that would look like,
just watch the RX and TX metering scales as you key the radio.
>
> It's not a "flashing" message, per se, but if you were calling a DX
station on the order of every few seconds, the message would come and go to
get your attention.
>
> It has the advantage of being quite obvious since it changes the entire
contents of one of the VFO displays, and both are very close to the VFO A
knob, where the action is.

>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

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Chester Alderman

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Now that is a GREAT idea!
73,
Tom - W4BQF

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne
Burdick
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 10:30 AM
To: Carey Magee
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

Any change we make in the way split is indicated would have to be enabled
using a menu entry. The present behavior will remain the default.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Feb 18, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Carey Magee <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi All:
>
> Would this be able to be set as an option in the Menu/Config Menu? I
currently am fine with split indication. If I include my logging program I
currently have 4 indicators to remind me.

>
> Thanks
>
> 73,
> Carey Magee, K2RNY
> Rochester New York
> Grid: FN13ef
> [hidden email]
>
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Suppose we provide a menu option that, when engaged, results in this

behavior:
>
> - If you're NOT in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "NON.SPLT" on VFO B. (A
> is TX in this case.)
>
> - If you ARE in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "SPLIT" on VFO A. (B is TX
> in this case.)
>
> So, during keying in either case, the TX frequency is still displayed (you
need to know that), but the RX display is used to provide a warning.
>
> The time constant for these displayed messages would coincide with the
change in metering from RX to TX. Thus the "NON.SPLT" or "SPLIT" would come
on when you key, and stay on for at least 300 ms, the timer being
retriggered each time you key. To get an idea of what that would look like,
just watch the RX and TX metering scales as you key the radio.
>
> It's not a "flashing" message, per se, but if you were calling a DX
station on the order of every few seconds, the message would come and go to
get your attention.
>
> It has the advantage of being quite obvious since it changes the entire
contents of one of the VFO displays, and both are very close to the VFO A
knob, where the action is.

Phil Wheeler-2

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Bravo!

Phil W7OX

On 2/18/15 7:30 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> Any change we make in the way split is indicated would have to be enabled using a menu entry. The present behavior will remain the default.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by NK7Z

> Implicit in your statement, is the assumption that the provided
> indicators are sufficient, which all of this traffic would seem to
> indicate is not the case.

Implicit in your statement is that the transceiver, automobile, roadway
or whatever should make it impossible for the operator to have an
accident. That's not possible - there are those who can break an
anvil.

The current design that *THREE* separate indications of split operation.
Any *one* of those should be sufficient. *NONE* of the proposals do
anything to address the real question which should be how to notify the
operator that he *should be in split*.

The problem is that the operator *is not paying attention*. The
correct approach would be: every time the operator activates transmit,
the rig display should show a message that says "you are in transceive
(simplex) - are you sure you should not engage split? Press XMIT to
begin transmitting"

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2015-02-18 10:40 AM, David Cole wrote:

> Dave (AB9CA),
>
> Given your logic, we should get rid of all street signs, and stop
> lights, and guard rails on bridges, and roads, because the drivers are
> just initiative, and the crutch o guard rails is not needed for them.
>
> Implicit in your statement, is the assumption that the provided
> indicators are sufficient, which all of this traffic would seem to
> indicate is not the case.
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by NK7Z

> please consider the addition of something on the P3 to indicate
> split.

It's *ALREADY THERE* - the Transmit (VFO B) cursor is *RED* when
split. In addition, there is a separate (*THIRD*) red cursor
showing the transmit frequency when XIT is engaged.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2015-02-18 10:31 AM, David Cole wrote:
> Wayne,
> If the user has a P3 connected, please consider the addition of
> something on the P3 to indicate split. Most of my eye action is on the
> P3 in a pileup, not on the frequency.
>
______________________________________________________________
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alsopb

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Ted Roycraft-2

Reminds me of a snippett from a pileup:

Unknown station: "IK5XXXQ UP UP UP don't you understand English?"
Of course we have the same problem with guys trying to use code readers.
Either they are not decoding UP or don't understand what UP means.

73 de Brian/K3KO
On 2/18/2015 15:33 PM, Ted Roycraft wrote:

> Bingo! No amount of flashing on the K3 screen is going to correct poor
> operating habits. Nothing can substitute for good operating practices
> which become habits. It takes 2 seconds to check the K3 status
> before sending. Make a habit. If you don't do that, you won't see
> anything flashing on the screen either.
>
> I think that one menu item that is already there that can help is
> "SPLIT SV". Set it to "YES".
>
> 73, Ted, W2ZK
>
> On 2/18/2015 10:17 AM, dave wrote:
>>
>> I dunno . . .
>>
>> What we are doing is attempting to address an op who is not paying
>> attention. But, if the op is not paying attention, how is any of this
>> going to have any effect? I think it is all a waste of time and effort.
>>
>> If someone is not paying attention, they are not paying attention,
>> and the *only* cure is for them to being paying attention to what
>> they are doing.
>>
>> I don't think the various band aids being discussed will help. The
>> guy is still not going to be paying attention. He is distracted by
>> something else.
>>
>> I would suggest that the time spent, which might well be wasted on
>> this project, be used for something more productive. The K3 is fine
>> as it is. It is the op that is the problem, not the K3.
>>
>> 73 de dave
>> ab9ca/4
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/18/15 9:02 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>> Suppose we provide a menu option that, when engaged, results in this
>>> behavior:
>>>
>>> - If you're NOT in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "NON.SPLT" on VFO B.
>>> (A is TX in this case.)
>>>
>>> - If you ARE in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "SPLIT" on VFO A. (B is
>>> TX in this case.)
>>>
>>> So, during keying in either case, the TX frequency is still
>>> displayed (you need to know that), but the RX display is used to
>>> provide a warning.
>>>
>>> The time constant for these displayed messages would coincide with
>>> the change in metering from RX to TX. Thus the "NON.SPLT" or "SPLIT"
>>> would come on when you key, and stay on for at least 300 ms, the
>>> timer being retriggered each time you key. To get an idea of what
>>> that would look like, just watch the RX and TX metering scales as
>>> you key the radio.
>>>
>>> It's not a "flashing" message, per se, but if you were calling a DX
>>> station on the order of every few seconds, the message would come
>>> and go to get your attention.
>>>
>>> It has the advantage of being quite obvious since it changes the
>>> entire contents of one of the VFO displays, and both are very close
>>> to the VFO A knob, where the action is.
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
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wayne burdick

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

Administrator

In reply to this post by Chester Alderman

User interface design is often called upon to make up for human failings. We get distracted, we forget, we have trouble breaking bad habits, we easily acquire new ones. This is true no matter how much training we have. The designer tries to take such issues into account up front, but sometimes we find out later and make adjustments.

My cognitive science professor, Don Norman, put a heavy emphasis on embedding knowledge "in the world." Signs and indicators need to be as unambiguous as possible to help those of us who can't or won't pay attention. Ideally the indications are intuitive, so users adapt to them easily and don't feel oppressed by them. That distinction is in play here. And while I'd love to add a dozen more LEDs, a klaxon horn, and a Van de Graf generator to the K3's user interface, we have to work within the limits of the existing hardware.

Providing an optional means of reinforcing split/non-split state is in the tradition of design iteration -- using feedback about real errors that people make, then minimizing them. That's why we're having this conversation.

Wayne
N6KR

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wayne burdick

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

Administrator

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Joe,

Just because there are three indicators for SPLIT already doesn't mean that the problem has been solved. Even crack operators have admitted during the past few days that they occasionally forget their split state, with embarrassing consequences. This is proof that the indications can and should be improved, if possible. See my previous posting.

Wayne
N6KR

On Feb 18, 2015, at 7:58 AM, "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> please consider the addition of something on the P3 to indicate
>> split.
>
> It's *ALREADY THERE* - the Transmit (VFO B) cursor is *RED* when
> split. In addition, there is a separate (*THIRD*) red cursor
> showing the transmit frequency when XIT is engaged.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2015-02-18 10:31 AM, David Cole wrote:
>> Wayne,
>> If the user has a P3 connected, please consider the addition of
>> something on the P3 to indicate split. Most of my eye action is on the
>> P3 in a pileup, not on the frequency.
>>
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Mike Reublin NF4L

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

If it's an option, OK, but I am convinced that if an op misses the existing two indicators on the LCD display, and the Δf yellow LED, then more indicators aren't gonna help. And I am unanimous in my opinion.

I'd much rather see the effort go into separating VOX for data from VOX for SSB.

73, Mike NF4L

> On Feb 18, 2015, at 10:02 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Suppose we provide a menu option that, when engaged, results in this behavior:
>
> - If you're NOT in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "NON.SPLT" on VFO B. (A is TX in this case.)
>
> - If you ARE in SPLIT: keying the rig shows "SPLIT" on VFO A. (B is TX in this case.)
>
> So, during keying in either case, the TX frequency is still displayed (you need to know that), but the RX display is used to provide a warning.
>
> The time constant for these displayed messages would coincide with the change in metering from RX to TX. Thus the "NON.SPLT" or "SPLIT" would come on when you key, and stay on for at least 300 ms, the timer being retriggered each time you key. To get an idea of what that would look like, just watch the RX and TX metering scales as you key the radio.
>
> It's not a "flashing" message, per se, but if you were calling a DX station on the order of every few seconds, the message would come and go to get your attention.
>
> It has the advantage of being quite obvious since it changes the entire contents of one of the VFO displays, and both are very close to the VFO A knob, where the action is.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

> Providing an optional means of reinforcing split/non-split state is
> in the tradition of design iteration -- using feedback about real
> errors that people make, then minimizing them. That's why we're
> having this conversation.

The problem is that you're still trying to reinforce a negative. The
normal operation is simplex - none of the additional indicators will
do anything to reinforce to an operator set for simplex that he
*should be* split.

These indicators only work if the operator *knows he should be split*
and if he knows that the current indicators - three on the K3, two in
the P3 - are enough to let him know that split is engaged.

Even experienced operators can get distracted. It is not the lack
of sufficient indicators that is the distraction - it is not thinking
before pressing the PTT switch and even the best can forget to look
before transmitting.

> And while I'd love to add a dozen more LEDs, a klaxon horn, and a Van
> de Graf generator to the K3's user interface, we have to work within
> the limits of the existing hardware.

Unfortunately those are all static indications *when split is engaged*
- they still do not (and can not) tell the operator that split *should*
*be* engaged when it is not. The only real solution is signal decoding
that listens for "UP" and automatically engages split.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2015-02-18 11:00 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> User interface design is often called upon to make up for human
> failings. We get distracted, we forget, we have trouble breaking bad
> habits, we easily acquire new ones. This is true no matter how much
> training we have. The designer tries to take such issues into account
> up front, but sometimes we find out later and make adjustments.
>
> My cognitive science professor, Don Norman, put a heavy emphasis on
> embedding knowledge "in the world." Signs and indicators need to be
> as unambiguous as possible to help those of us who can't or won't pay
> attention. Ideally the indications are intuitive, so users adapt to
> them easily and don't feel oppressed by them. That distinction is in
> play here. And while I'd love to add a dozen more LEDs, a klaxon
> horn, and a Van de Graf generator to the K3's user interface, we have
> to work within the limits of the existing hardware.
>
> Providing an optional means of reinforcing split/non-split state is
> in the tradition of design iteration -- using feedback about real
> errors that people make, then minimizing them. That's why we're
> having this conversation.
>
> Wayne N6KR
>
>
>
>
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wayne burdick

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

Administrator

In reply to this post by Mike Reublin NF4L

On Feb 18, 2015, at 8:18 AM, Mike Reublin NF4L <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If it's an option, OK, but I am convinced that if an op misses the existing two indicators on the LCD display, and the Δf yellow LED, then more indicators aren't gonna help. And I am unanimous in my opinion.

:)

Well, I'm not sure I agree. Yes, there are three indicators, but they're all quite small, and the delta-F LED is off to the side. These methods of indicating split all seemed like a great idea at the time, but even I miss them sometimes, so I'm interested in trying something else.

My proposed "split" and "non-split" text indications might solve the "didn't see the indicators" problem, because they occupy so much more area of the front panel (about 20 times more). That seems to be the crux of the issue: a lot of operators want something *BIG* to change stage when they transmit, and that something has to indicate whether they're in split or not.

This method also works whether you're doing "real" split (RX on VFO A, TX on VFO B) or "sub-RX implied split" (TX on VFO A, RX with sub on VFO B).

Wayne
N6KR

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

The fact that the K3 has the blessings of
Cognitive Science is most reassuring, Wayne. :-)

Phil W7OX

On 2/18/15 8:00 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> User interface design is often called upon to make up for human failings. We get distracted, we forget, we have trouble breaking bad habits, we easily acquire new ones. This is true no matter how much training we have. The designer tries to take such issues into account up front, but sometimes we find out later and make adjustments.
>
> My cognitive science professor, Don Norman, put a heavy emphasis on embedding knowledge "in the world." Signs and indicators need to be as unambiguous as possible to help those of us who can't or won't pay attention. Ideally the indications are intuitive, so users adapt to them easily and don't feel oppressed by them. That distinction is in play here. And while I'd love to add a dozen more LEDs, a klaxon horn, and a Van de Graf generator to the K3's user interface, we have to work within the limits of the existing hardware.
>
> Providing an optional means of reinforcing split/non-split state is in the tradition of design iteration -- using feedback about real errors that people make, then minimizing them. That's why we're having this conversation.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR

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