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Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

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Dave Quick - KØEKL-2

Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Below is a link to a couple photos of the new Elecraft P3 panadapter which I
took today at the Orlando Hamcation.

Eric, WA6HHQ, said he expected the price to be around $700.00 (no commitment
here - price subject to change) and he hopes to begin shipping sometime in
April. He said that production and shipping is limited by availability of
the LCD screen vendor to supply product.

Here's the link: www.flickr.com/photos/47514701@N06/

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Phil Hystad

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Well, I will be ordering one. Are orders being taken now?

73, phil, K7PEH

On Feb 12, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Dave Quick - KØEKL wrote:

> Below is a link to a couple photos of the new Elecraft P3 panadapter which I
> took today at the Orlando Hamcation.
>
> Eric, WA6HHQ, said he expected the price to be around $700.00 (no commitment
> here - price subject to change) and he hopes to begin shipping sometime in
> April. He said that production and shipping is limited by availability of
> the LCD screen vendor to supply product.
>
> Here's the link: www.flickr.com/photos/47514701@N06/
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Mike Reublin

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Dave Quick - KØEKL-2

Never mind that. How do the hats look? :-P

Seriously, thanks for the preview.

73, Mike NF4L

Dave Quick - KØEKL wrote:

Grant Youngman

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Dave Quick - KØEKL-2

On Feb 12, 2010, at 4:57 PM, Dave Quick - KØEKL wrote:
>
> Eric, WA6HHQ, said he expected the price to be around $700.00 (no commitment
> here - price subject to change) and he hopes to begin shipping sometime in
> April.

I want one. I don't need one. Crikey! -- there's not much I really NEED anymore! (Well, hair and six-pack abs would be a good thing, plus the DJ t around 20,000). But I want one! :-)

Hope it's not too long until I can place an order for another widget I don't need :-)

Grant/NQ5T
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Brett Howard

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Dave Quick - KØEKL-2

Anyone know the resolution of the display that was selected?

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Fri, 2010-02-12 at 16:57 -0600, Dave Quick - KØEKL wrote:

Bob - W0GI

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Grant Youngman

The P3 is a nice little box, after spendong hours making cables, setting up the LP-Pan, PowerSDR, and the soundcard, plug and play would have some benefits. Now that that stuff all works, I don't need a P3, but like you, I still want one. :>)

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I want one. I don't need one. Crikey! -- there's not much I really NEED anymore! (Well, hair and six-pack abs would be a good thing, plus the DJ t around 20,000). But I want one! :-)

Hope it's not too long until I can place an order for another widget I don't need :-)

Grant/NQ5T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

David Gilbert

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Dave Quick - KØEKL-2

Are the feature list and specifications now firm? And if so, what are they? I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for any box, even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does before sending off the check.

73,
Dave

------Original Mail------
From: "Dave Quick - KØEKL" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:57:13 -0600
Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Below is a link to a couple photos of the new Elecraft P3 panadapter which I
took today at the Orlando Hamcation.

Eric, WA6HHQ, said he expected the price to be around $700.00 (no commitment
here - price subject to change) and he hopes to begin shipping sometime in
April. He said that production and shipping is limited by availability of
the LCD screen vendor to supply product.

Here's the link: www.flickr.com/photos/47514701@N06/

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Julian, G4ILO

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Dave - AB7E wrote

Are the feature list and specifications now firm? And if so, what are they? I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for any box, even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does before sending off the check.

No. I think the order backlog for this will probably be even bigger than it was for the K3 when that was announced. Those who aren't quick off the mark will be lucky to see a P3 before Christmas. So the savvy will order the minute it comes up on the website and then decide if they need it. Heck, I expect some people are sending $700 cheques already to Eric to secure places at the head of the queue. You can always sell it to someone further down the waiting list!

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

Guy, K2AV

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Dave - AB7E <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Are the feature list and specifications now firm? And if so, what are they? I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for any box, even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does before sending off the check.
>

I should note that putting a prototype, and then later a working early
model in front of the public for comment at some convention-style
event, is RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT. Early ham feedback at hamfests is
essential, and it too is R&D.

It's only the customers (and pent up demand) that are mistakenly
insisting that they are slow. You want the kind of innovation and
service they are known for, you have to wait. It's not a flaw or
laziness, or some kind of commie plot to rob us of our toys. It's
careful business. Good stuff at good prices is the hardest thing to
do. What was that thing, you can have two of the three, quick,
quality, low price? (Personally, I'm betting quality AND low price is
at the root of the amp thing, I'll wait.)

I wonder if anyone has noticed businesses going down for getting even
close to the edge these days? Hello? The early plunk for the K3 was
a VOLUNTARY early alternative financing scheme. Lot better than them
being leveraged by a bank that pulls the plug on them for completely
unrelated reasons. Any Rip Van Winkle types please check the
financials for the last couple of years for historical information and
note that Ronald Reagan is not president any more.

Personally, I want Elecraft around for a while. Conservative business
practices with no screeching tires at cliff's edge is just super
peachy fine by me. There is no TARP fund bailout for Elecraft. They go
down, we're back to getting our stuff from Yakencom and stuck with
what they decide for us, whether we like it or not.

And some folks WOULD plunk now for unfirm features (and there's no big
gorilla around MAKING anyone plunk -- it's a CHOICE one makes), with
the personal SELF-assurance that if it isn't what they want, they can
come here and sell it on the reflector, fast.

73, Guy.
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John_N1JM

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Bob - W0GI

I think for the 250 I invested in a LP-PAN and sound card that will do me fine. If the price will be around the SDR-IQ I might have second thoughts.

S Sacco

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

Guy -

Please don't forget that Elecraft sucked in quite a few of us on the K3 by
promising wildly optimistic delivery dates. I consider that to be a highly
questionable business practice.

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Dave - AB7E <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Are the feature list and specifications now firm? And if so, what are
> they? I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for any
> box, even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does
> before sending off the check.
> >
>
> I should note that putting a prototype, and then later a working early
> model in front of the public for comment at some convention-style
> event, is RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT. Early ham feedback at hamfests is
> essential, and it too is R&D.
>
> It's only the customers (and pent up demand) that are mistakenly
> insisting that they are slow. You want the kind of innovation and
> service they are known for, you have to wait. It's not a flaw or
> laziness, or some kind of commie plot to rob us of our toys. It's
> careful business. Good stuff at good prices is the hardest thing to
> do. What was that thing, you can have two of the three, quick,
> quality, low price? (Personally, I'm betting quality AND low price is
> at the root of the amp thing, I'll wait.)
>
> I wonder if anyone has noticed businesses going down for getting even
> close to the edge these days? Hello? The early plunk for the K3 was
> a VOLUNTARY early alternative financing scheme. Lot better than them
> being leveraged by a bank that pulls the plug on them for completely
> unrelated reasons. Any Rip Van Winkle types please check the
> financials for the last couple of years for historical information and
> note that Ronald Reagan is not president any more.
>
> Personally, I want Elecraft around for a while. Conservative business
> practices with no screeching tires at cliff's edge is just super
> peachy fine by me. There is no TARP fund bailout for Elecraft. They go
> down, we're back to getting our stuff from Yakencom and stuck with
> what they decide for us, whether we like it or not.
>
> And some folks WOULD plunk now for unfirm features (and there's no big
> gorilla around MAKING anyone plunk -- it's a CHOICE one makes), with
> the personal SELF-assurance that if it isn't what they want, they can
> come here and sell it on the reflector, fast.
>
> 73, Guy.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

KM4VX

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Dave Quick - KØEKL-2

What drives the price of a new product more than anything is marketing. Microsoft could sell Windows 7 at profit for 50 cents but charges $149.00. The P-3 price is being defined here on the reflector by those of us who are so enthusiastic about Elecraft; hams may be called "cheap" but have considerable discretionary spending available. The P-3 could sell for a few hundred dollars at profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are talking about more than double that price. Companies recover their R&D investments over time, and the higher the selling price the shorter the R&D investment recovery period. How about a breather here? The $700 price being tossed around is a bit absurd in my view. Yeah, many of us can and will pay it, but its okay to talk about 3-400 dollars and Elecraft would do just fine. Offer the company double their profitable selling price and they are delighted to take it. Why not? Mail a check now? If the price is determined by what we are willing to pay, consider paying less. It is okay to pay less guys. 73. Ron

Phil Hystad

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

I think the estimated $700 price is cheap. I was thinking it would be
closer to $1000. There is a similar product from Yaesu, the DMU-2000
with a list price of $1400 and it does not even include the monitor which
you must supply yourself. I think the street price is possibly under $1000
though.

Now, we do not know how close or far apart the DMU-2000 is from the
P3 but it does set at least one price point. Another price point is the
LP-PAN and sound-card plus computer configuration. If you buy an
external USB sound card then you are starting to get closer to the ball
park area of the $700 (of course, depending on all kinds of factors that
are too variable to make any close comparison). I bet though that many
hams would gladly pay several hundred dollars more for the P3 to avoid
the hassle of doing up their own solution using the LP-PAN approach.

About Microsoft selling Windows 7 at a profit for 50 cents! Your joking
of course. I have a number of good friends on the Microsoft Windows
7 product team (I live about 4 miles from the Microsoft campus) and
they would beg to differ with you. They have, depending on how you
measure it which is not easy, a multi-billion dollar development effort
that they need to recapture by selling Windows 7. Or, look at it another
way, their first several million copies of Windows 7 are still being sold
at a huge loss. You can actually read their shareholders reports and
find out some of the cost for developing Windows 7.

As for me, I will buy the P3. Cost? It is not so high that it would be
totally unreasonable I am betting.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Feb 13, 2010, at 8:23 AM, KM4VX wrote:

>
> What drives the price of a new product more than anything is marketing.
> Microsoft could sell Windows 7 at profit for 50 cents but charges $149.00.
> The P-3 price is being defined here on the reflector by those of us who are
> so enthusiastic about Elecraft; hams may be called "cheap" but have
> considerable discretionary spending available. The P-3 could sell for a few
> hundred dollars at profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are
> talking about more than double that price. Companies recover their R&D
> investments over time, and the higher the selling price the shorter the R&D
> investment recovery period. How about a breather here? The $700 price being
> tossed around is a bit absurd in my view. Yeah, many of us can and will pay
> it, but its okay to talk about 3-400 dollars and Elecraft would do just
> fine. Offer the company double their profitable selling price and they are
> delighted to take it. Why not? Mail a check now? If the price is determined
> by what we are willing to pay, consider paying less. It is okay to pay less
> guys. 73. Ron
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-P3-panadapter-at-the-Orlando-Hamcation-tp4564111p4566779.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

MontyS

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

I was gonna go with my 50 megapixel Kodak, tripod, klieg lights, Powers
models, and take you all some pictures. But it's too cotton-pickin cold
here in Florida! Sorry.

Monty K2DLJ

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Jeff kb2m

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad

Don't forget that the LP Pan allows you to run the SDR-IF software suite.
To me it's like having another radio(with band stacking registers!) to
compare my K3 to. When I have my K3 on, I do all the tuning around with
SDF-IF. My K3's knobs are hardly ever used....

73 Jeff kb2m

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:40 AM
To: KM4VX
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Another price point is the LP-PAN and sound-card plus computer configuration

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HarrytheHam

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by KM4VX

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Julian, G4ILO

Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Jeff kb2m

Jeff kb2m wrote

Don't forget that the LP Pan allows you to run the SDR-IF software suite.
To me it's like having another radio(with band stacking registers!) to
compare my K3 to. When I have my K3 on, I do all the tuning around with
SDF-IF. My K3's knobs are hardly ever used....

If you want an SDR then I'm sure that's the way to go. But I'm equally sure there are a lot of people who don't want the huge ugly screen hogging resource hogging PowerSDR application just to show them a graphical display of band activity. Many of those folks probably have the second receiver already. If a standalone panadaptor is what you want, LP-Pan isn't it.

I'm wondering what extra functionality Elecraft could be building in to the P3. I see it can do a waterfall display so I'm wondering whether it has any features to allow digimode operation without a computer, such as Icom has in its latest rigs. Perhaps it could use some of the screen to display more of the decoded text than you can see on the K3 display? Perhaps you can plug a keyboard in to directly enter text? The K3 itself already has support for that functionality, and the P3 can access it through the serial port.

Just a thought.

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

KM4VX

RE: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad

Phil: Thanks you for your comments. You confirm everything I said about marketing. I stand by my comments about Microsoft and the marketing of the P-3. If you think the asking price is cheap then I guess that is what we will be paying, but we will pay it for the reasons I stated. I also like Elecraft, but like some of us seek value for my money with an empahsis on more value and less money.

Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:40:12 -0800
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

I think the estimated $700 price is cheap. I was thinking it would be
closer to $1000. There is a similar product from Yaesu, the DMU-2000
with a list price of $1400 and it does not even include the monitor which
you must supply yourself. I think the street price is possibly under $1000
though.

Now, we do not know how close or far apart the DMU-2000 is from the
P3 but it does set at least one price point. Another price point is the
LP-PAN and sound-card plus computer configuration. If you buy an
external USB sound card then you are starting to get closer to the ball
park area of the $700 (of course, depending on all kinds of factors that
are too variable to make any close comparison). I bet though that many
hams would gladly pay several hundred dollars more for the P3 to avoid
the hassle of doing up their own solution using the LP-PAN approach.

About Microsoft selling Windows 7 at a profit for 50 cents! Your joking
of course. I have a number of good friends on the Microsoft Windows
7 product team (I live about 4 miles from the Microsoft campus) and
they would beg to differ with you. They have, depending on how you
measure it which is not easy, a multi-billion dollar development effort
that they need to recapture by selling Windows 7. Or, look at it another
way, their first several million copies of Windows 7 are still being sold
at a huge loss. You can actually read their shareholders reports and
find out some of the cost for developing Windows 7.

As for me, I will buy the P3. Cost? It is not so high that it would be
totally unreasonable I am betting.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Feb 13, 2010, at 8:23 AM, KM4VX wrote:

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KM4VX

RE: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

In reply to this post by HarrytheHam

Harry: Let's keep the exchange civil. There is nothing "silly" about my views or those you put forward. You demonstrate the success of good marketing by both Microsoft and Elecraft. I am not taking anything away from either, but this is about marketing not technology. Most of these companies are on the cutting edge, whether they are here or elsewhere. How you choose to view them is called "marketing."

Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:08:14 -0800
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

"What drives the price of a new product more than anything is marketing. Microsoft could sell Windows 7 at profit for 50 cents but charges $149.00. The P-3 price is being defined here on the reflector by those of us who are so enthusiastic about Elecraft;...The P-3 could sell for a few hundred dollars at profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are talking about more than double that price."

This is just plain silly.

First, Microsoft could sell Windows 7 at $300. Why? Because it can. Because it has a by far dominant position in the market. Because people and corporate entities will pay for it. Because Microsoft is in the business to make money.

Second, I would wager that you, like most of us, have very little factual insight into Elecraft's cost structure including: R&D, manufacturing, product marketing, distribution and order fulfillment, warranty support and on-going customer support. Further, we have no insight into what return on investment Elecraft's management and investors expect to see with each new product plan and commercial launch. Subsequently, apart from market forces (competitive products and pricing, demand, etc.) P3 pricing is going to be highly dependent upon Elecraft pricing and margin requirements far beyond "price being defined here on the reflector..." I can assure you the probability is very great that if pricing was defined by the reflector Elecraft and many other vendors would not be in business.

Third, and related above, "the P3 could sell for a few hundred dollars at profit..." Don't know how you can make this claim. Further, what other panadaptors? SDR-IQ is a specialty device intended for a market far broader than "panadaptor" and the ham community and is highly dependent upon 3rd party software, PC processing, etc. Softrock and LP-Post implementations are more kit oriented also requiring additional 3rd party content. The P3, on the other hand, appears to be designed as (a) integrated with the K3 and (b) self-contained hardware implementation (sort of guessing here as no real specifics released). The only recent and maybe relative comparison would be the Yaesu DMU-2000(at $750 to $850) as an outboard, dedicated accessory (although I would wager the P3 implementation will be far superior with respect to technology platform and panadaptor functionality).

Keep in mind that while Elecraft's innovation, R&D quality, manufacturing quality, etc. sets the company apart from many other vendors in our hobby, the company has to make money not only to keep its owners happy but to plow back into the business. Don't think of it as a non-profit for the ham community.

Harry WE1X

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hf4me

Elecraft P3 panadapter

In reply to this post by S Sacco

I disagree. I would prefer to have them take whatever time is needed to
make the FINE products they are. I will wait for the quality they produce.
I am an Elecraft customer BECAUSE of the products, support, and ongoing
additional features that get added. My radio continues to get better long
after I get it and many of the "improvements" are those WE request. I do
get anxious about new product but that is because they are so open with
information about them. I am one that believes this process is very
advantageous to the development of some of the product features in creating
the "best" possible practical product.

----- Original Message -----
From: "S Sacco" <[hidden email]>
To: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

> Guy -
>
> Please don't forget that Elecraft sucked in quite a few of us on the K3 by
> promising wildly optimistic delivery dates. I consider that to be a
> highly
> questionable business practice.
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV
> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Dave - AB7E <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Are the feature list and specifications now firm? And if so, what are
>> they? I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for
>> any
>> box, even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does
>> before sending off the check.
>> >
>>
>> I should note that putting a prototype, and then later a working early
>> model in front of the public for comment at some convention-style
>> event, is RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT. Early ham feedback at hamfests is
>> essential, and it too is R&D.
>>
>> It's only the customers (and pent up demand) that are mistakenly
>> insisting that they are slow. You want the kind of innovation and
>> service they are known for, you have to wait. It's not a flaw or
>> laziness, or some kind of commie plot to rob us of our toys. It's
>> careful business. Good stuff at good prices is the hardest thing to
>> do. What was that thing, you can have two of the three, quick,
>> quality, low price? (Personally, I'm betting quality AND low price is
>> at the root of the amp thing, I'll wait.)
>>
>> I wonder if anyone has noticed businesses going down for getting even
>> close to the edge these days? Hello? The early plunk for the K3 was
>> a VOLUNTARY early alternative financing scheme. Lot better than them
>> being leveraged by a bank that pulls the plug on them for completely
>> unrelated reasons. Any Rip Van Winkle types please check the
>> financials for the last couple of years for historical information and
>> note that Ronald Reagan is not president any more.
>>
>> Personally, I want Elecraft around for a while. Conservative business
>> practices with no screeching tires at cliff's edge is just super
>> peachy fine by me. There is no TARP fund bailout for Elecraft. They go
>> down, we're back to getting our stuff from Yakencom and stuck with
>> what they decide for us, whether we like it or not.
>>
>> And some folks WOULD plunk now for unfirm features (and there's no big
>> gorilla around MAKING anyone plunk -- it's a CHOICE one makes), with
>> the personal SELF-assurance that if it isn't what they want, they can
>> come here and sell it on the reflector, fast.
>>
>> 73, Guy.
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