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External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

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Craig Wissman

External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older K3.
Online equipment refs I’ve discovered are either out of date or inconsistent.
I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018 1:55min YouTube instructions. Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject matter doesn’t seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual rcvrs. Windows 10 desktop.
Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related digital modes down the line.
Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we warned not to bother…
Craig WF6Q

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

> Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older
> K3.

Any sound card with Line In and Line Out will work with the K3. I would
avoid the $5 USB dongles that are designed to work with a headset (mic
and earphones).

As long as you are not looking for voice DVK support (planning to loop
a microphone through the sound card) a simple sound card with just Line
In and Line Out will work just fine for RTTY (AFSK) and other audio
based data modes.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2021-01-01 11:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Craig Wissman

I run a Timewave PK-232sc+. Besides having an excellent quality sound card, you can run traditional FSK RTTY. If you have the 2 meter module installed, you can run VARA FM and 1200 baud packet for Winlink.

If you have an older PK-232, you can buy the sound card kit which includes USB upgrades to the PK, adds a USB to serial converter, a USB hub, and software to switch the PK between sound card decoding and tradition packet,RTTY, Pactor etc modes.

Ham made parts carries the hook up cables. If you want to make your own, I have a schematic for the sound card,FSK, and CW connections on the PK.

Hank
K4HYJ

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Craig Wissman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
> Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older K3.
> Online equipment refs I’ve discovered are either out of date or inconsistent.
> I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018 1:55min YouTube instructions. Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
> Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject matter doesn’t seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
> Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual rcvrs. Windows 10 desktop.
> Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related digital modes down the line.
> Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
> I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we warned not to bother…
> Craig WF6Q
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

For getting started, there is nothing 'wrong' about the SignaLink USB
but there are better devices out there (less noise, better sensitivity,
flatter response). There are also many mods for it to make improvements.

So for now, use what you have and when it you can (as with anything
station), make improvements.

HNY!,
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 8:38 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
>> Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older
>> K3.
>
> Any sound card with Line In and Line Out will work with the K3. I would
> avoid the $5 USB dongles that are designed to work with a headset (mic
> and earphones).
>
> As long as you are not looking for voice DVK support (planning to loop
> a microphone through the sound card) a simple sound card with just Line
> In and Line Out will work just fine for RTTY (AFSK) and other audio
> based data modes.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2021-01-01 11:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:
>> Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
>> Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older
>> K3.
>> Online equipment refs I’ve discovered are either out of date or
>> inconsistent.
>> I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018 1:55min
>> YouTube instructions. Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
>> Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject matter
>> doesn’t seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
>> Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual
>> rcvrs. Windows 10 desktop.
>> Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related
>> digital modes down the line.
>> Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
>> I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we warned
>> not to bother…
>> Craig WF6Q
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Wes Stewart-2

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Craig Wissman

One of the neatest things about a K3(S) is the ease of running sound card modes
using the built-in features. Personally I would, and did, use AFSK on RTTY.
You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer. Use two audio
cable from Line In, Line Out, VOX, AFSK and MMTTY and you're done. I use low
tones (915) since I like to "listen" to the receiver. Some will argue that a
better sound card will decode more, I have not found that to be the case, at
least comparing the Lenovo T400 to a TASCAM US-100. Of course, a K3S makes this
even easier.

I'll confess that in my desire to treat myself to one more new radio in this
lifetime, I got tired of waiting for a K4 and bought a TS-890. Putting it on
RTTY was a PITA, since it runs FSK and needs serial port keying. The radio
provides a couple of virtual serial ports via USB so it's doable and works fine
once all of the hoops are cleared.

Wes N7WS

ps. I'm still an Elecrafter, my KPA500 and KAT500 work very well with the Kenwood.

On 1/1/2021 9:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:

> Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
> Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older K3.
> Online equipment refs I’ve discovered are either out of date or inconsistent.
> I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018 1:55min YouTube instructions. Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
> Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject matter doesn’t seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
> Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual rcvrs. Windows 10 desktop.
> Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related digital modes down the line.
> Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
> I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we warned not to bother…
> Craig WF6Q
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>

N4ZR

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Craig Wissman

I've been quite comfortable with the StarTech ICUSBAUDIO7D - on my
second, and still available. Most of my audio problems are Windows 10's
fault, or mine.

Rather than FSK, I suggest you start with Data A - The K3's AFSK seems
to work very well on my S/N 4275, and there's no requirement for
external FSK hardware.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 1/1/2021 11:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:

Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating system
sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital portions of
the bands.

HNY!
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 8:50 AM, Wes wrote:
> You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer.
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N7US

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by N4ZR

I've used that successfully too. Here's a link to it on Amazon:

https://tinyurl.com/yanzfatr

I discontinued using it when I got my K3S and later my microKEYER III, which I like very much.

73, Jim N7US

-----Original Message-----

I've been quite comfortable with the StarTech ICUSBAUDIO7D - on my second, and still available. Most of my audio problems are Windows 10's fault, or mine.

Rather than FSK, I suggest you start with Data A - The K3's AFSK seems to work very well on my S/N 4275, and there's no requirement for external FSK hardware.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 1/1/2021 11:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:

Elecraft mailing list

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Rick Bates, NK7I

Not really. It all boils down to understanding what you are doing.
Windows sounds can be turned off. The best sound card in the world isn't
going to stop anyone from transmitting garbage. Understanding includes
setting the audio levels correctly throughout the system. I've used my
PC sound system with two simple audio cables for years. Now I have
upgraded my K3 with the K3s I/O and simply pipe audio, CAT, PTT and PC
CW down the one USB cable.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

On 01/01/2021 13:56, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
> A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating system
> sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital portions of
> the bands.
>
> HNY!
> Rick NK7I
>
> On 1/1/2021 8:50 AM, Wes wrote:
>> You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer.
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Bill Frantz

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

I have been quite successful with a $5 dongle from Amazon which
I use with my KX3. I had to install a attenuator which is a 1K
ohm resistor between the mic in and ground and a 47K ohm
resistor between KX3 headphone out and mic in. (Note that these
values aren's critical. Fred Cady recommends 33 ohm and 270 ohm
respectively.) Since everything fits in the shell of the 3.5mm
plug, it makes a very light, compact system which is nice with a
portable radio.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/1/21 at 11:38 AM, [hidden email] (Joe Subich, W4TV) wrote:

>Any sound card with Line In and Line Out will work with the K3. I would
>avoid the $5 USB dongles that are designed to work with a headset (mic
>and earphones).

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Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Precisely why (since MS can foul up audio settings routinely on any
random update) it's a bad idea. Leaving one small check mark in a lower
level driver setting (looping/routing audio) that leaves a mic hot is
but one example. There are too many ways to make an error. Using the
computer sound card on a radio is not 'set and forget'.

We still have a large base of folks that don't get what is required to
operate a clean (legal) station; we all learn as we go. Setting
boundaries is part of that edcucation (OS stays in OS, radio stays in
radio).

Turning off the OS sounds, one would also lose features that the OS and
apps that are useful (like JTAlert "DX" announcements, Zoom/Skype
audio). The small cost of a sound device (or second sound card) for the
radio(s) is certainly worth the gains and lowering of the risks.

73,
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 9:34 AM, Mike Harris via Elecraft wrote:

> Not really. It all boils down to _*understanding what you are doing*_.
> Windows sounds can be turned off. The best sound card in the world
> isn't going to stop anyone from transmitting garbage. Understanding
> includes setting the audio levels correctly throughout the system.
> I've used my PC sound system with two simple audio cables for years.
> Now I have upgraded my K3 with the K3s I/O and simply pipe audio, CAT,
> PTT and PC CW down the one USB cable.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike VP8NO
>

Phil Kane-2

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Rick Bates, NK7I

On 1/1/2021 8:56 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:

> A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating system
> sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital portions of
> the bands.

Please explain your comment "all illegal" concerning "operating system
sounds". As both a telecommunications engineer and a communications
attorney I have never had to deal with the legality or illegality of
"operating system sounds".

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Wes Stewart-2

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Rick Bates, NK7I

Turn off Windows sounds in Control Panel and operate.

On 1/1/2021 9:56 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:

> A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating system sounds
> (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital portions of the bands.
>
> HNY!
> Rick NK7I
>
> On 1/1/2021 8:50 AM, Wes wrote:
>> You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2

HNY Phil,

While I'm not an attorney, I've read the rules (subject to
interpretation of course). Transmission of music is specifically
unlawful. (What is defined as music these days, also subject to
interpretation, hi hi.)

Defined in the simplest of terms, any sound transmitted other than for
the purposes of communication (voice, tones for digital) is illegal.

This includes background music in the same room as the microphone
(though generally ignored as part of the environment, in the US; same as
telephone 'hold' music in an autopatch; traffic noise etc.) and
certainly includes the 'musical' sounds from most OS (they offer no
communication).

Which, to me, means the sounds from an OS are unlawful to transmit. If
the incidental OS sound is spoken ("You have mail"), that isn't legal in
the digital, non-phone) portions of the bands. At the very least, they
use more spectrum than necessary (i.e. 3 KHz bandwidth in an area for
FT8, which uses ~60 Hz bandwidth per user) and offer nothing for
communication.

Considering the general apathy of the FCC lately (US of course), I'm not
surprised that this has never been tested by citation. I'd much rather
err on the side of caution. Turning off the OS sounds is not a complete
solution.

Using a sound card, specific and limited to the radio use, is a vast
improvement over using the OS sounds device to maintain legality.

73,
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 10:04 AM, Phil Kane wrote:

> On 1/1/2021 8:56 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
>
>> A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating
>> system sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital
>> portions of the bands.
>
> Please explain your comment "all illegal" concerning "operating system
> sounds". As both a telecommunications engineer and a communications
> attorney I have never had to deal with the legality or illegality of
> "operating system sounds".
>
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
>
> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

I disagree, most users are not adept at the trivia in the drivers, so
the chances of errant audio (monitor the microphone locally check mark)
increases the risk of transmitting 'garbage'.

The user also loses the benefits provided by the OS sounds (as said in
another email here on the list).

The average ham radio costs at least hundreds of dollars to buy, an
adequate sound card is under $10-20. It's not an economic strain. The
cost of wire for a simple antenna, costs much more.

Many newer radios come with a sound device built in; just use that and
let the OS do things as designed for audio.

73,
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 10:20 AM, Wes wrote:
> Turn off Windows sounds in Control Panel and operate.
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Wes Stewart-2

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Rick Bates, NK7I

We should go back to a toggle switch on the front panel for transmit/receive
because having VOX turned on might allow an inadvertent transmission of shack
noise. Likewise, with QSK on CW accidentally bumping the key will send unwanted
garbage. We should be protected from ourselves making mistakes.

Wes N7WS

On 1/1/2021 10:48 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:

> Precisely why (since MS can foul up audio settings routinely on any random
> update) it's a bad idea. Leaving one small check mark in a lower level driver
> setting (looping/routing audio) that leaves a mic hot is but one example.
> There are too many ways to make an error. Using the computer sound card on a
> radio is not 'set and forget'.
>
> We still have a large base of folks that don't get what is required to operate
> a clean (legal) station; we all learn as we go. Setting boundaries is part of
> that edcucation (OS stays in OS, radio stays in radio).
>
> Turning off the OS sounds, one would also lose features that the OS and apps
> that are useful (like JTAlert "DX" announcements, Zoom/Skype audio). The
> small cost of a sound device (or second sound card) for the radio(s) is
> certainly worth the gains and lowering of the risks.
>
> 73,
> Rick NK7I
>
> On 1/1/2021 9:34 AM, Mike Harris via Elecraft wrote:
>> Not really. It all boils down to _*understanding what you are doing*_.
>> Windows sounds can be turned off. The best sound card in the world isn't
>> going to stop anyone from transmitting garbage. Understanding includes
>> setting the audio levels correctly throughout the system. I've used my PC
>> sound system with two simple audio cables for years. Now I have upgraded my
>> K3 with the K3s I/O and simply pipe audio, CAT, PTT and PC CW down the one
>> USB cable.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mike VP8NO

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

That doesn't prevent other sounds - particularly VoIP (Zoom/Skype)
and steaming audio (Pandor, Podcasts, etc.) from reaching the rig
(and being transmitted if the digital program is running and/or
the VOX is enabled).

There *IS NO BETTER SOLUTION* than a separate sound card for the
rig connection and proper a properly configured operating system
that separates "computer audio" and "radio audio".

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2021-01-01 1:20 PM, Wes wrote:

> Turn off Windows sounds in Control Panel and operate.
>
> On 1/1/2021 9:56 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
>> A generically 'bad' idea and is the reason that voice, operating
>> system sounds (all illegal) and poor audio are often in the digital
>> portions of the bands.
>>
>> HNY!
>> Rick NK7I
>>
>> On 1/1/2021 8:50 AM, Wes wrote:
>>> You don't need a sound card beyond the one in your computer.

Jim Brown-10

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Craig Wissman

On 1/1/2021 8:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:
> Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my older K3.

Here's my writeup of a study that I did several years ago. I'm still
using the Tascam in my station, and the Numark for portable setups. A
year or two ago, I bought another of the Tascam on eBay to have as a
spare. Petr, AG6EE, swears by his ASUS Xonar for the extensive 6M grid
expeditions he does with his KX3.

73, Jim K9YC
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Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

You're making fun of care and caution?

Mistakes will happen (forgetting to turn VOX off when done with the QSO;
bumping the key, the snoring cat laying on the microphone switch) but
that is not the same level of mistake as transmitting ambient noise,
operating system sounds (of any type) or similar.

We are all liable for what is produced by our stations; we should take
that seriously and do our best to manage them. It's been clear that
there are many that don't as often found on the bands.

73,
Rick NK7I

On 1/1/2021 10:57 AM, Wes wrote:
> We should go back to a toggle switch on the front panel for
> transmit/receive because having VOX turned on might allow an
> inadvertent transmission of shack noise. Likewise, with QSK on CW
> accidentally bumping the key will send unwanted garbage. We should be
> protected from ourselves making mistakes.
>
> Wes N7WS
______________________________________________________________
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N4ZR

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by N4ZR

Joe's right - I had a brain fade.You select Data as your mode and then
select AFSK A, not DATA A, with the DATA MD button.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 1/1/2021 12:15 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> On 2021-01-01 11:52 AM, N4ZR wrote:
>
> > Rather than FSK, I suggest you start with Data A - The K3's AFSK seems
> > to work very well on my S/N 4275, and there's no requirement for
> > external FSK hardware.
>
> Better yet. Use AFSK_A for RTTY since it contains a transmit audio
> filter to keep the AFSK clean. Use DATA_A for other audio based data
> modes that require USB and some flexibility in the audio bandwidth.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2021-01-01 11:52 AM, N4ZR wrote:
>> I've been quite comfortable with the StarTech ICUSBAUDIO7D - on my
>> second, and still available. Most of my audio problems are Windows
>> 10's fault, or mine.
>>
>> Rather than FSK, I suggest you start with Data A - The K3's AFSK
>> seems to work very well on my S/N 4275, and there's no requirement
>> for external FSK hardware.
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
>> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
>> For spots, please use your favorite
>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>
>> On 1/1/2021 11:13 AM, Craig Wissman wrote:
>>> Sorry to trouble you folks. I’m sure this is a well worn path.
>>> Trying to figure out what current sound cards will work with my
>>> older K3.
>>> Online equipment refs I’ve discovered are either out of date or
>>> inconsistent.
>>> I’ve been trying to follow Max George’s(NG7M) March 2018 1:55min
>>> YouTube instructions. Also info from AA5AU and N1MM tutorials.
>>> Tried to search this post archive but find doing it by subject
>>> matter doesn’t seem to work. Having to dig through monthly summaries.
>>> Trying to get setup with N1MM/MMTTY K3 serial port vintage with dual
>>> rcvrs. Windows 10 desktop.
>>> Plan to start out with FSK and maybe dabble with other chat related
>>> digital modes down the line.
>>> Can anyone point me to current sound card best practices?
>>> I have a 2006 vintage Signalink used years back but seem to we
>>> warned not to bother…
>>> Craig WF6Q
>>>
>
>

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