Fw: Need winding machine?
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I just received the following e-mail about a toroid winding machine.
Perhaps it may interest some of you Elecrafters. It was spam, so take it for what it's worth. 73, de Earl, K6SE --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Jack Feng" <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:16:21 +0800 Subject: Need winding machine? Dear sir, My name is Jack Feng. The oversea sales representative of Guangri winding machine department. Now I recommend the following toroidal winding machine to you. If those winding machine interest you, I will email you the catalog and website. Machine Type Slider wire size(AWG):43-21 Final OD(inches):1-10 Shuttle dia(inches):1-8 Speed(max rpm):1000 Belt head wire size(AWG):35-22 Final OD(inches):2-6 Shuttle dia(inches):1.5-2.5 Speed(max rpm):800 Gear head wire size(AWG):21-9 Final OD(inches):2.5-13.8 Shuttle dia(inches):8-16 Speed(max rpm):200 Main drive 0.5 to 2 HP AC motor Core rotation 0.25HP AC motor Master/slave, proportionally coupled AC inverters. Microprocessor controller: Infinitely programmable, LED display readout. Machine weight: 83-240kg. GuangRi is Chinese largest manufacturer of Toroid Coil Winding equipment, offering a full line of machines for power transformers, current transformers, chokes and inductors. It also produces machines dedicated for the production of variable voltage transformers and toroid taping machines. All equipment is microprocessor controlled. Best regards, Jack Feng Oversea sales representative Guangri Winding machine Tel:+86-757-86791200 Fax:+86-757-86791244 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Earl W Cunningham wrote:
> I just received the following e-mail about a toroid winding machine. > Perhaps it may interest some of you Elecrafters. It was spam, so take it > for what it's worth. Thanks....my local ISP traps these as spam...never figured it would get sent via the list. I can hardly wait to see low powered sexual appliance ads forwarded here. Thom www.baltimorehon.com/ Home of the Baltimore Lexicon www.tlchost.net/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Earl W Cunningham
DO NOT forward spam to a list. Most certainly DO NOT - NEVER, EVER - buy a product advertised via spam. To do so is the act of a naif, as it only encourages more spam. I'm trying to think of any reasonable criteria by which you shouldn't be immediately dispelled from the list for spamming (which you have in fact done), and can't. I've a mind to file a report with your ISP for violation of their TOS/AUP. Sorry if this seems harsh, but spam in any form cannot be tolerated.
At 07:50 PM 4/12/2005, Earl W Cunningham wrote... >I just received the following e-mail about a toroid winding machine. >Perhaps it may interest some of you Elecrafters. It was spam, so take it >for what it's worth. > >73, de Earl, K6SE > >--------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: "Jack Feng" <[xxx]> >To: [hidden email] >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:16:21 +0800 >Subject: Need winding machine? [spam removed] _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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There are always mean, bossy, overreacting people who want to be the
police of the world. Don't let them ruin your day, Earl. On Apr 12, 2005, at 8:39 PM, Mike S wrote: > DO NOT forward spam to a list. Most certainly DO NOT - NEVER, EVER - > buy a product advertised via spam. To do so is the act of a naif, as > it only encourages more spam. I'm trying to think of any reasonable > criteria by which you shouldn't be immediately dispelled from the list > for spamming (which you have in fact done), and can't. I've a mind to > file a report with your ISP for violation of their TOS/AUP. Sorry if > this seems harsh, but spam in any form cannot be tolerated. > > At 07:50 PM 4/12/2005, Earl W Cunningham wrote... >> I just received the following e-mail about a toroid winding machine. >> Perhaps it may interest some of you Elecrafters. It was spam, so >> take it >> for what it's worth. >> >> 73, de Earl, K6SE _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Fw: Need winding machine?
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In reply to this post by Earl W Cunningham
W8UR (Mike S) wrote:
"DO NOT forward spam to a list. Most certainly DO NOT - NEVER, EVER - buy a product advertised via spam. To do so is the act of a naif, as it only encourages more spam. I'm trying to think of any reasonable criteria by which you shouldn't be immediately dispelled from the list for spamming (which you have in fact done), and can't. I've a mind to file a report with your ISP for violation of their TOS/AUP. Sorry if this seems harsh, but spam in any form cannot be tolerated." ========== I included a caveat with my post, so yes, that seems excessively harsh, but please do go ahead and file your report with my ISP. Maybe they'll cut down on the amount of spam they forward to me. Although I do not embrace spamming activities, keep in mind that many spammers are legitimate businesses that find the Internet a convenient method of advertising their wares. Because many Elecrafters have a fondness(?) and a close association with toroid winding, I see nothing wrong with passing the information along to the group. If you don't like it, just bite your tongue and use the delete key. As Abraham Lincoln said, "You can please some of the people some of the time......" 73, de Earl, K6SE _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thanks for beinging that type of machine to light for me. I had never considered that such a machine would exist (don't know why, I guess I never really thought about it) That is quite a machine to watch go (found a site with a video on it showing the machien at speed HI HI Quite interesting (another item in the if I had stupid money category under neat gizmos I would buy. HI HI) 73 - ----------------------------------- John N5BSD www.N5BSD.Com Linux user #286770 Machine # 246511 http://counter.li.org - ------------------------------------ - -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Earl W Cunningham Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:27 AM To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fw: Need winding machine? W8UR (Mike S) wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQlywjT4STIkCKSUlEQJX0wCdEB+Q7nX6ofWWUYYIwRqeSDbKnMEAoNrN zXm5hTj8YVuwIx5Z9n9E1QUc =dtPg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Earl W Cunningham
In message <[hidden email]>, Earl W Cunningham
<[hidden email]> writes >I just received the following e-mail about a toroid winding machine. >Perhaps it may interest some of you Elecrafters. It was spam, so take it >for what it's worth. > >73, de Earl, K6SE Hi Earl, Interestingly I received the same mail here. I suspect that as we were both in this group when the discussion about toroid winders took place over a year ago and many of us were looking at various sites to do with these machines, this is probably targeted advertising rather than blind spam:-) I would not be surprised to find many of the regulars targeted the same way if they don't use a spam trap whilst on this list. (This is the only list I don't use a spam trap on and I intend to keep it that way:-) Trev G3ZYY -- Trevor Day UKSMG #217 www.uksmg.org _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Fw: Need winding machine?
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In reply to this post by Earl W Cunningham
Mike S wrote:
"It's exactly because of clueless newbies like you that there is a spam problem in the first place." (The rest of his e-mail censored because of foul language) ========== I have NEVER bought anything nor visited a Web site advertised by a spammer. This "clueless newbie" has been into computer hardware and software professionally since 1966. (Retired 1994.) Bought (built) my first PC in 1979. Authored much ham radio software since then, much of it used world-wide today. Member of the Elecraft e-mail list since April 2002 -- others before that. Celebrating my 51st year as a ham (first licensed as W8DGP in 1955 - Extra Class since 1963). Newbie??? 73, de Earl, K6SE (not a vanity callsign) K2/100 #2622 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Fw: Need winding machine?
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In reply to this post by Earl W Cunningham
Trev, G3ZYY wrote:
"Interestingly I received the same mail here. I suspect that as we were both in this group when the discussion about toroid winders took place over a year ago and many of us were looking at various sites to do with these machines, this is probably targeted advertising rather than blind " ========== The immediate impression I had when I received the "winder" e-mail was that the spammer somehow knew I was an Elecrafter and that other Elecrafters would possibly receive the same e-mail (apparently they have). If that is true, I wonder how he got my (or yours and others) e-mail address because I have never searched the Web for a toroid winding machine nor have I ever visited any spammer's Web site. 73, de Earl, K6SE _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 07:54:05AM -0700, Earl W Cunningham wrote:
> > If that is true, I wonder how he got my (or yours and others) e-mail > address because I have never searched the Web for a toroid winding > machine nor have I ever visited any spammer's Web site. Perhaps a web search for toroid winding machines led him to this list's archives (I got a couple of copies of the email, but my ISP's spam trap caught them). Some of these folks are pretty clever at mining email addresses. I have one address which I have only used a few times (never on a list) and it is now regularly receiving penny-stock spam. 73, Bob N7XY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Earl W Cunningham
Well, it seems that Earl has chosen to demonstrate his ignorance of accepted Internet protocol by not only spamming (itself a felony crime in the US), but by forwarding private correspondence to a public forum. I have been careful to respond to communications regarding this subject only via email and not the reflector, but if Earl wants a public discussion of the inappropriateness of his activity, so be it.
Yes, Earl, you are exhibiting the characteristics of a clueless newbie, Internet jargon for someone who doesn't understand the history and accepted practices of the Internet. My own experience with the Internet predates commercial use of any sort (Merit/NSFNet) - a time when you lost your feed if you tried to use it for business, which no one did because it was against the rules and strongly enforced by peer pressure. The spam you sent was not informational, it was commercial. More useful information is easily had by doing a simple Google search, as someone already pointed out. There's no difference between you putting "it may interest some of you" on the front of a spam and the millions of spams sent out daily which start with "Hey, I thought you might like this..." or something similar. Now you come along and try to rationalize criminal activity and theft of service (spam), unremorsefully. You've encouraged others to respond to spam, further propagating the problem. It is actions and lack of understanding such as yours which have made spam the significant problem it is today. Without an audience, spam wouldn't be profitable, and therefore wouldn't exist. By forwarding spam to a larger audience, you are both the problem and the cause, yet you continue to defend your action. This same can be said in some ways about ham radio - in the past the "self-policing" nature made it easy for the FCC to justify the (minimal) regulation necessary to support and maintain. More recently, that "self-policing" has begun to break down, and now we've got license testing fraud and Hollingsworth because hams look the other way instead of applying peer pressure when improper behavior is observed. Along that trendline, we can only expect more regulation. You're not simply ignoring improper Internet behavior, you're actively encouraging it. Yes, Earl, you've demonstrated that you are a clueless newbie with regard to the Internet, at best. If you actually knew what you were doing when you spamed the list, that just makes it worse and you do deserve censure. With your history, you should know better. At 10:41 AM 4/13/2005, Earl W Cunningham wrote... >Mike S wrote: > >"It's exactly because of clueless newbies like you that there is a spam >problem in the first place." > >(The rest of his e-mail censored because of foul language) >========== >I have NEVER bought anything nor visited a Web site advertised by a >spammer. > >This "clueless newbie" has been into computer hardware and software >professionally since 1966. (Retired 1994.) > >Bought (built) my first PC in 1979. Authored much ham radio software >since then, much of it used world-wide today. > >Member of the Elecraft e-mail list since April 2002 -- others before >that. > >Celebrating my 51st year as a ham (first licensed as W8DGP in 1955 - >Extra Class since 1963). > >Newbie??? > >73, de Earl, K6SE (not a vanity callsign) >K2/100 #2622 >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Earl W Cunningham
Just do a Google search on "toroid winding". You don't have to look far
to turn up Elecraft list posts and postings from lists.contesting.com where the subject has been mentioned, complete with full email addresses. 73, -- Julian, G4ILO G4ILO's Shack: http://www.tech-pro.net/g4ilo Earl W Cunningham <[hidden email]> wrote: The immediate impression I had when I received the "winder" e-mail was that the spammer somehow knew I was an Elecrafter and that other Elecrafters would possibly receive the same e-mail (apparently they have). If that is true, I wonder how he got my (or yours and others) e-mail address because I have never searched the Web for a toroid winding machine nor have I ever visited any spammer's Web site. 73, de Earl, K6SE _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Julian, G4ILO wrote:
> Just do a Google search on "toroid winding". You don't have to look far to > turn up Elecraft list posts and postings from lists.contesting.com where the > subject has been mentioned, complete with full email addresses. But to get back to some basics....Do you think it's appropriate to forward a spam message to a mailing list? Thom www.baltimorehon.com/ Home of the Baltimore Lexicon www.tlchost.net/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Fw: Need winding machine?
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In reply to this post by Mike S-8
So I guess if Earl had said "I ran across this torrid winding machine that
might be of interest to Elecrafters", and had made no mention of spam, it would have been okay? Or perhaps he could have inserted a link to the appropriate site. We get links to supposedly reputable profit oriented organizations on the reflector all the time: could any of these be possible spam? Hummmmm? I found the torid winding machine interesting BUT I didn't buy one! ;>) Doug W6JD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike S" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fw: Need winding machine? > Well, it seems that Earl has chosen to demonstrate his ignorance of accepted Internet protocol by not only spamming (itself a felony crime in the US), but by forwarding private correspondence to a public forum. I have been careful to respond to communications regarding this subject only via email and not the reflector, but if Earl wants a public discussion of the inappropriateness of his activity, so be it. > > > The spam you sent was not informational, it was commercial. More useful information is easily had by doing a simple Google search, as someone already pointed out. There's no difference between you putting "it may interest some of you" on the front of a spam and the millions of spams sent out daily which start with "Hey, I thought you might like this..." or something similar. > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Douglas Westover wrote:
> So I guess if Earl had said "I ran across this torrid winding machine that > might > be of interest to Elecrafters", and had made no mention of spam, it would > have > been okay? Would that involve forwarding the spam message to the list? > Or perhaps he could have inserted a link to the appropriate site. Sure....and perhaps instead of telling him he spammed the list with a spam message, some folks might point out to him that he referenced a site that uses Spam to market its products. > We get links to supposedly reputable profit oriented organizations on the > reflector all the time: could any of these be possible spam? Hummmmm? If those organizations used Spam to market their products/services than one could advance the premise that be mentioning them, one is condoning their use of Spam. I beleive there are some folks who simply refuse to purchase goods/services from organizations that use Spam to market those items. Thom _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Fw: Need winding machine? END OF THREAD.
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In reply to this post by Thom LaCosta
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Julian, G4ILO wrote: > > Do you think it's appropriate to forward > a spam message to a mailing list? Clearly, spam should not be forwarded. But just as clearly, Earl didn't know this was spam. He thought it was legitimate and that he was potentially doing someone on the list a favor. We've all received messages that we thought were interesting, but later turned out to be urban myths that have circulated for years, or were outright spam. Let's avoid criticism of those who unintentionally forward such messages. We all have things to learn about the internet. In any case, it's time to end this thread. 73, Wayne N6KR _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Earl W Cunningham
That's an impossible question to answer, because it depends how you define
spam. To some, it's any unsolicited email. To others, it's any email they didn't ask to receive and aren't interested in. The fact that a number of people did find the email interesting seems to me to vindicate Earl's decision to forward it. The discussion about whether or not he should have done so is far more off-topic and a bigger waste of reflector bandwidth. Unsolicited mail is a long established marketing method and my doormat is a regular recipient of the paper-based version of it. Julian, G4ILO Thom R Lacosta <[hidden email]> wrote: But to get back to some basics....Do you think it's appropriate to forward a spam message to a mailing list? Thom _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Fw: Need winding machine?
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In reply to this post by Earl W Cunningham
I thought the message I forwarded to this reflector might be of interest
to other Elecrafters, and I did indicate that it was spam. It was not intended to start a controversy. I apologize to anyone it might have offended. Let's drop the subject. 73, de Earl, K6SE _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Earl W Cunningham
G3VVT suggested to K6SE:
>Interestingly I received the same mail here. I suspect that as we were >both in this group when the discussion about toroid winders took place >over a year ago and many of us were looking at various sites to do with >these machines, this is probably targeted advertising rather than blind >spam:-) > >I would not be surprised to find many of the regulars targeted the same >way if they don't use a spam trap whilst on this list. (This is the only >list I don't use a spam trap on and I intend to keep it that way:-) Not quite sure what Trev means by a spam trap, but folks just up the road from here are pretty sharp nowadays & this company in Namhoi is probably not any different. I too received a few unsolicited e-mails from Kwang Yat & in the pursuit of "socialism with Chinese characteristics", it comes as no surprise. The winding of torroids is often discussed on this list & given some of the classic spam I receive, there is a lot of creativity going into finding addresses to send stuff to. Partially serious, partially humorous & somewhat relevant - cheers, Earl. 73, VR2BrettGraham _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Trevor Day
Sorry Trev, but unsolicited email offering to sell something you've never
heard of from someone you've never heard of is SPAM. Whether you consider "targeted" spam legitimate as opposed to what you call "blind" SPAM, is irrelevant. You stop SPAM by not buying anything from an unsolicited emailer. PERIOD. I get that exact same email from Jack Feng at least once a week. I even stuck "winding machine" in my filter to immediately send any email with that term into the delete bucket. With all due respect Trev, as long as folks like you try to rationalize SPAM, the spammers will keep doing it. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution. 73 =paul= W8KC ObELECRAFT - I love my KX1. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Trevor Day Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 4:22 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fw: Need winding machine? In message <[hidden email]>, Earl W Cunningham <[hidden email]> writes >I just received the following e-mail about a toroid winding machine. >Perhaps it may interest some of you Elecrafters. It was spam, so take it >for what it's worth. > >73, de Earl, K6SE Hi Earl, Interestingly I received the same mail here. I suspect that as we were both in this group when the discussion about toroid winders took place over a year ago and many of us were looking at various sites to do with these machines, this is probably targeted advertising rather than blind spam:-) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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