Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
 
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-------- Original Message -------- Subject: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:21:05 -0800 From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] I hope someone can help me as I tried to update the firmware onto my K3 this afternoon. I first tried it five times getting ERR DSE E0000202 on the K3, and xE200006 on the K3Util screen with the details as "DSP1 verification failed, and version verification number failed. Then I deleted the K3Util program, and connected an Ethernet cable to my laptop, then reloaded the K3Util software. Tried another five tines with the same error results. I read all the notes online, and I'm stumped. All the other firmware loads fine. Craig W6WL ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I needed to make a real rs232 cable to get mine to work
The usb adaptors don't work very well including the ones elecraft sell. It's time to work on robustness on the loader instead on new features. This is a problem that will damage the K3 reputation if it is not addressed. As there are not many pc's that have the real ports anymore. Don KD8NNU Sent from my Palm Pre on the Now Network from Sprint On Feb 5, 2011 8:28 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:21:05 -0800 From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] I hope someone can help me as I tried to update the firmware onto my K3 this afternoon. I first tried it five times getting ERR DSE E0000202 on the K3, and xE200006 on the K3Util screen with the details as "DSP1 verification failed, and version verification number failed. Then I deleted the K3Util program, and connected an Ethernet cable to my laptop, then reloaded the K3Util software. Tried another five tines with the same error results. I read all the notes online, and I'm stumped. All the other firmware loads fine. Craig W6WL ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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In reply to this post by Craig Smith-3
Craig,
If you are able, try using a real serial port on a desktop computer if you are able - no adapter drivers to confuse the issue. I use a real serial port and have done many firmware upgrades. The only time I had a problem was when I pushed a button during the upgrade process (that was my error, not a K3 error). If you are confined to your laptop, make sure you have the correct and current drivers for your USB to serial adapter. The older Elecraft KUSB adapters used the prolific chipset, but the newer ones (ordered in the last 6 months or so) use the FTDI chipset which seems to be more stable. The older USB to serial adapters have had some problems with Vista and Win7, so if your OS is not WinXP, and you are using the older KUSB, you may want to purchase an FTDI based adapter. The K3 firmware has been loaded by many users, so that itself is not the likely problem. USB adapters and their drivers are the most common causes of failure. 73, Don W3FPR On 2/5/2011 9:28 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download > Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:21:05 -0800 > From: [hidden email]<[hidden email]> > To: [hidden email] > > > > I hope someone can help me as I tried to update the firmware onto my K3 > this afternoon. I first tried it five times getting ERR DSE E0000202 on > the K3, and xE200006 on the K3Util screen with the details as "DSP1 > verification failed, and version verification number failed. Then I > deleted the K3Util program, and connected an Ethernet cable to my > laptop, then reloaded the K3Util software. Tried another five tines with > the same error results. I read all the notes online, and I'm stumped. > All the other firmware loads fine. > > Craig W6WL > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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In reply to this post by KD8NNU
Don,
I have trouble blaming the problem on the K3 when the real problem lies with the Operating System and properly operating drivers (or lack thereof) for the USB to serial adapters. Use of a desktop computer for the hamshack is quite desirable IMHO - mine sits under the desk and the monitor, keyboard and mouse takes up less space than a laptop. If the particular desktop does not come with serial ports, there are cards available that will add native serial ports to a desktop. Laptops are quite another story, although PCMCIA serial port cards are available and should be more reliable than USB to serial adapters. Desktop computers with serial ports are available at bargain prices in the off-lease category (I like the IBM off-lease, many of which have 2 serial ports). Most are loaded with WinXPpro and cost less than $150, and are more than adequate for a dedicated ham-station computer. Sure, you have to spend additional dollars for a monitor, but that is small change compared to laptop prices. The flexibility offered by a desktop far exceeds the "convenience" of a laptop for ham use, and is much more reliable (a laptop is a "throw-away" device if it stops working). 73, Don W3FPR On 2/5/2011 9:49 PM, don Swetzig wrote: > I needed to make a real rs232 cable to get mine to work > > The usb adaptors don't work very well including the ones elecraft sell. > > It's time to work on robustness on the loader instead on new features. > > This is a problem that will damage the K3 reputation if it is not addressed. As there are not many pc's that have the real ports anymore. > > Don > > > > > KD8NNU > > Sent from my Palm Pre on the Now Network from Sprint > On Feb 5, 2011 8:28 PM, [hidden email]<[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download > > Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:21:05 -0800 > > From: [hidden email]<[hidden email]> > > To: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > I hope someone can help me as I tried to update the firmware onto my K3 > > this afternoon. I first tried it five times getting ERR DSE E0000202 on > > the K3, and xE200006 on the K3Util screen with the details as "DSP1 > > verification failed, and version verification number failed. Then I > > deleted the K3Util program, and connected an Ethernet cable to my > > laptop, then reloaded the K3Util software. Tried another five tines with > > the same error results. I read all the notes online, and I'm stumped. > > All the other firmware loads fine. > > > > Craig W6WL > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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Thanks for the input, Don.
I deleted the old firmware file in my local folder, and reloaded just the latest DSP files. Worked perfectly. I really don't think the USB cable is the issue. Anyway, I'm a happy camper! Craig W6WL On 2/5/2011 7:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Don, > > I have trouble blaming the problem on the K3 when the real problem > lies with the Operating System and properly operating drivers (or lack > thereof) for the USB to serial adapters. > > Use of a desktop computer for the hamshack is quite desirable IMHO - > mine sits under the desk and the monitor, keyboard and mouse takes up > less space than a laptop. If the particular desktop does not come > with serial ports, there are cards available that will add native > serial ports to a desktop. Laptops are quite another story, although > PCMCIA serial port cards are available and should be more reliable > than USB to serial adapters. > > Desktop computers with serial ports are available at bargain prices in > the off-lease category (I like the IBM off-lease, many of which have 2 > serial ports). Most are loaded with WinXPpro and cost less than $150, > and are more than adequate for a dedicated ham-station computer. > Sure, you have to spend additional dollars for a monitor, but that is > small change compared to laptop prices. The flexibility offered by a > desktop far exceeds the "convenience" of a laptop for ham use, and is > much more reliable (a laptop is a "throw-away" device if it stops > working). > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 2/5/2011 9:49 PM, don Swetzig wrote: >> I needed to make a real rs232 cable to get mine to work >> >> The usb adaptors don't work very well including the ones elecraft sell. >> >> It's time to work on robustness on the loader instead on new features. >> >> This is a problem that will damage the K3 reputation if it is not >> addressed. As there are not many pc's that have the real ports >> anymore. >> >> Don >> >> >> >> >> KD8NNU >> >> Sent from my Palm Pre on the Now Network from Sprint >> On Feb 5, 2011 8:28 PM, >> [hidden email]<[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> >> Subject: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download >> >> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:21:05 -0800 >> >> From: [hidden email]<[hidden email]> >> >> To: [hidden email] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I hope someone can help me as I tried to update the firmware onto my K3 >> >> this afternoon. I first tried it five times getting ERR DSE E0000202 on >> >> the K3, and xE200006 on the K3Util screen with the details as "DSP1 >> >> verification failed, and version verification number failed. Then I >> >> deleted the K3Util program, and connected an Ethernet cable to my >> >> laptop, then reloaded the K3Util software. Tried another five tines with >> >> the same error results. I read all the notes online, and I'm stumped. >> >> All the other firmware loads fine. >> >> >> >> Craig W6WL >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> >> Elecraft mailing list >> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > -- Craig Smith Craig W Smith Photography 831-423-5800 408-499-0864 (cell) 800-713-0864 www.thephotoman.com (Weddings) www.craigwsmithphotography.com (Commercial) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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Craig,
I am glad to hear you had success. Unfortunately, many of similar problems are OS and USB to serial driver related. The USB cable itself is not the problem, but the available drivers to support it for the various OS versions seems to be the biggest problem. From my recall, the older KUSB with the prolific chipset is problematic with Vista and Win7 OS because Prolific does not have current drivers for those OS. Is this a Microsoft problem or is it a prolific chipset problem - I am not to be a judge, but it is a problem for the end user. There is no clear indication of who to point the "blame finger" toward. Buyer Beware - real serial ports seem to cause few difficulties. If you have a choice, use the native PC serial port rather than the USB to serial adapter. 73, Don W3FPR On 2/5/2011 10:54 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > Thanks for the input, Don. > > I deleted the old firmware file in my local folder, and reloaded just > the latest DSP files. Worked perfectly. I really don't think the USB > cable is the issue. Anyway, I'm a happy camper! > > Craig W6WL > > On 2/5/2011 7:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: >> Don, >> >> I have trouble blaming the problem on the K3 when the real problem >> lies with the Operating System and properly operating drivers (or >> lack thereof) for the USB to serial adapters. >> >> Use of a desktop computer for the hamshack is quite desirable IMHO - >> mine sits under the desk and the monitor, keyboard and mouse takes up >> less space than a laptop. If the particular desktop does not come >> with serial ports, there are cards available that will add native >> serial ports to a desktop. Laptops are quite another story, although >> PCMCIA serial port cards are available and should be more reliable >> than USB to serial adapters. >> >> Desktop computers with serial ports are available at bargain prices >> in the off-lease category (I like the IBM off-lease, many of which >> have 2 serial ports). Most are loaded with WinXPpro and cost less >> than $150, and are more than adequate for a dedicated ham-station >> computer. Sure, you have to spend additional dollars for a monitor, >> but that is small change compared to laptop prices. The flexibility >> offered by a desktop far exceeds the "convenience" of a laptop for >> ham use, and is much more reliable (a laptop is a "throw-away" device >> if it stops working). >> >> 73, >> Don W3FPR >> >> On 2/5/2011 9:49 PM, don Swetzig wrote: >>> I needed to make a real rs232 cable to get mine to work >>> >>> The usb adaptors don't work very well including the ones elecraft sell. >>> >>> It's time to work on robustness on the loader instead on new features. >>> >>> This is a problem that will damage the K3 reputation if it is not >>> addressed. As there are not many pc's that have the real ports >>> anymore. >>> >>> Don >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> KD8NNU >>> >>> Sent from my Palm Pre on the Now Network from Sprint >>> On Feb 5, 2011 8:28 PM, >>> [hidden email]<[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> >>> Subject: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download >>> >>> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:21:05 -0800 >>> >>> From: [hidden email]<[hidden email]> >>> >>> To: [hidden email] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I hope someone can help me as I tried to update the firmware onto my K3 >>> >>> this afternoon. I first tried it five times getting ERR DSE E0000202 on >>> >>> the K3, and xE200006 on the K3Util screen with the details as "DSP1 >>> >>> verification failed, and version verification number failed. Then I >>> >>> deleted the K3Util program, and connected an Ethernet cable to my >>> >>> laptop, then reloaded the K3Util software. Tried another five tines >>> with >>> >>> the same error results. I read all the notes online, and I'm stumped. >>> >>> All the other firmware loads fine. >>> >>> >>> >>> Craig W6WL >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >> > > -- > Craig Smith > Craig W Smith Photography > > 831-423-5800 408-499-0864 (cell) 800-713-0864 > > www.thephotoman.com (Weddings) > > www.craigwsmithphotography.com (Commercial) Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Craig Smith-3
Craig's problem brings up a question. If, for whatever reason, one or more of the downloaded firmware files is corrupted, do you need to delete all the downloaded files from your computer, do a new download from Elecraft so that a reload doesn't just grab the corrupted file again? Thanks, Lee (K9CM)
______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Don and all,
It isn't the K3 utility's problem either. Just how is the utility's supposed lack of robustness affect the connection between radio and computer? It doesn't. The entire planet has been sold a bill of goods concerning laptops, mostly because of the "gee whiz" factor. They are compromised computers. They are comparatively expensive, they are slower, they are more prone to physical damage, They have almost zero expansion ability. The newest ones don't have MCMCIA slots anymore. If you don't know what you are doing they are a nightmare to fix.How many laptop owners out there haven't had key caps pop off the keyboard? I don't understand folks who have no compunction about spending $4K on a box full of parts that if the assembly instructions are followed and they have a minimum of mechanical ability will become the K3. Yet, some of these same folks balk and squeal about adding a $10 serial port card to their computers. Amazing. Anything USB based is going to be dependent on the quality of the drivers associated with it. Doesn't matter computer platform or OS. If you get crappy drivers the device is going to be unreliable at best. This is why I'm glad Elecraft hasn't succumbed to the uniformed pressure to add a USB hub to the K3. The day they do is the day they become responsible for every sniggeling little problems that pops up because of drivers. On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 22:07:17 -0500 Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: > Don, > > I have trouble blaming the problem on the K3 when the real problem > lies with the Operating System and properly operating drivers (or > lack thereof) for the USB to serial adapters. > > Use of a desktop computer for the hamshack is quite desirable IMHO - > mine sits under the desk and the monitor, keyboard and mouse takes up > less space than a laptop. If the particular desktop does not come > with serial ports, there are cards available that will add native > serial ports to a desktop. Laptops are quite another story, although > PCMCIA serial port cards are available and should be more reliable > than USB to serial adapters. -- R. Kevin Stover AC0H ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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In reply to this post by Craig Smith-3
Craig,
The last few times I have attempted downloads to my K3 they failed and it took a few days to get it running again. I've ended up having to remove the K3 from my station setup, and put it on my work bench where I have a "Vintage PC" with a native serial port. Baring the remote possibility that Elecraft comes up with a more sophisticated system for doing these down loads, my plan is to limit doing these in the future to about once a year, due to their being such a PITA. The problem seems to be a general lack of robustness and intelligence in the K3's bootstrap loader. For my money, a less simple minded method of doing these updates would be a welcomed new feature. 73 Jack KZ5A K3 #4165 On 2/5/2011 8:28 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download > Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:21:05 -0800 > From: [hidden email]<[hidden email]> > To: [hidden email] > > > > I hope someone can help me as I tried to update the firmware onto my K3 > this afternoon. I first tried it five times getting ERR DSE E0000202 on > the K3, and xE200006 on the K3Util screen with the details as "DSP1 > verification failed, and version verification number failed. Then I > deleted the K3Util program, and connected an Ethernet cable to my > laptop, then reloaded the K3Util software. Tried another five tines with > the same error results. I read all the notes online, and I'm stumped. > All the other firmware loads fine. > > Craig W6WL > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Lee Trout
I would.
I don't now the inner workings of the utility but I assume there's something built in to check file integrity before the upgrade process. If not then that would be something to seriously think about adding. Easy enough to check MD5sums. On Sun, 6 Feb 2011 07:55:15 -0500 "Lee Trout" <[hidden email]> wrote: > Craig's problem brings up a question. If, for whatever reason, one > or more of the downloaded firmware files is corrupted, do you need to > delete all the downloaded files from your computer, do a new download > from Elecraft so that a reload doesn't just grab the corrupted file > again? Thanks, Lee (K9CM) -- R. Kevin Stover AC0H ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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It seems to be very few people that have a problem updating firmware.
And it's amazing that it still gets blamed on the Utility, the radio, file integrity, whatever. Of course it could be any of these, but that isn't nearly as likely as a broken USB/RS232 driver. Most of us have never had a problem that wasn't quickly resolved -- typically by ensuring that the drivers for the USB adapters are current and are properly installed. The thing to do here is not to give up or update firmware 'once a year', but to clean up your PC (which if it's anything like mine, is probably a horrendous mess of stuff, corruptions in the Registry, who know what?), uninstall and clean reinstall the drivers (paying attention to the instructions), and do it again. Punching buttons on the radio, or blaming it on not having a "real" RS-232 port or simply not solving the problem and then grumbling about it every time it doesn't work won't help much :-) Grant/NQ5T On Feb 6, 2011, at 7:54 AM, R. Kevin Stover wrote: > I would. > I don't now the inner workings of the utility but I assume there's > something built in to check file integrity before the upgrade process. > If not then that would be something to seriously think about adding. > Easy enough to check MD5sums. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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In reply to this post by ac0h
On 2/6/11 8:47 AM, R. Kevin Stover wrote:
> Don and all, > > It isn't the K3 utility's problem either. > Just how is the utility's supposed lack of robustness affect the > connection between radio and computer? It doesn't. The actual connection, no. BUT, K3 utility's lack of robustness DOES allow the problems sometimes found when using USB serial devices to prevent the K3 utility from doing it's job. Communications protocols that function properly with less than perfect communications paths have been around for decades. If the K3 utility used such a protocol (and was, therefore, more robust) people wouldn't be having these problems. 73, Ross N4RP -- FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.” ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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In reply to this post by Lee Trout
Each of the firmware files is checked for line by line checksum validity and the presence of a file end record during FTP (which isn't used in the Beta unzip process) and the firmware files are read into the PC's RAM and similarly verified before initiating firmware load. We don't access the file system during firmware load to avoid issues like network file share access problems at awkward times.
There is a line by line checksum test and a retry protocol during the load. But we are critically dependent in receiving single byte ACK or NACK for each firmware record. Most corruption I see is based on USB / laptop combinations and is somewhat transient or due to unfortunate combinations of laptop and USB adapters. The same devices work fine at different times or with other cables or the cable works fine with another computer. The most damaging corruption the occasional introduction of a byte the program didn't send or the loss of a response ACK. I have traces of both scenarios, and application level error recovery code for "should not occur" sorts of failure like this. Most of my K3 Utility testing is done with a vintage Prolific PL2303 based KUSB with my Windows 7 64-bit desktop development system, with two 2-meter RS 232 extension cords across the room, two DB9 ABCD switches and two one-meter DB9 extension cords in line between PC and K3. When I make changes to the firmware loaders I also test with an XP laptop, Vista laptop, Windows 7 netbook, and a Windows 98 SE minitower, and a Windows XP desktop with RS232. Dick, K6KR On Feb 6, 2011, at 6:55, "Lee Trout" <[hidden email]> wrote: > Craig's problem brings up a question. If, for whatever reason, one or more of the downloaded firmware files is corrupted, do you need to delete all the downloaded files from your computer, do a new download from Elecraft so that a reload doesn't just grab the corrupted file again? Thanks, Lee (K9CM) > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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In reply to this post by Grant Youngman
Grant,
On 2/6/2011 8:20 AM, Grant Youngman wrote: > It seems to be very few people that have a problem updating firmware. Hardly a day goes by that there is not at least one "firmware download problem" string running on the reflector. > And it's amazing that it still gets blamed on the Utility, the radio, file integrity, whatever. Of course it could be any of these, but that isn't nearly as likely as a broken USB/RS232 driver. Most of us have never had a problem that wasn't quickly resolved -- typically by ensuring that the drivers for the USB adapters are current and are properl installed. Most of these USB/serial adapters work just fine for any purpose except K3 downloads. Mine is embedded in my microHam microKeyer II, and works perfectly for any other use. The issue is not a USB driver problem and will not be fixed by reloading the driver. It is a problem with the K3 bootstrap loader lacking the intelligence to ignore commands it isn't expecting, and just locking up if it gets one, at least in the case of my particular interface. You have to consider the Bootstrap loader and the K3 utility as a system. And as a system they don't work very well. If everything is not just perfect the load fails and the radio goes brain dead. > The thing to do here is not to give up or update firmware 'once a year', but to clean up your PC (which if it's anything like mine, is probably a horrendous mess of stuff, corruptions in the Registry, who know what?), uninstall and clean reinstall the drivers (paying attention to the instructions), and do it again. Punching buttons on the radio, or blaming it on not having a "real" RS-232 port or simply not solving the problem and then grumbling about it every time it doesn't work won't help much :-) Your station PC may be full of garbage but mine isn't. It also does not have a free slot that I'm willing to dedicate to a serial board that is only needed once or twice a year. It amazes me to see the lengths some people on this board go to, to blame the K3's problems on anything but the K3. This firmware loading system needs to be improved. The problem is not the entire rest of the world, it is the K3. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away, however not doing the updates will. How many potential K3 owners check out this board and see the continuous running "failed firmware download" dialogs, and think........."well... maybe not". 73 Jack KZ5A > Grant/NQ5T > > > > > On Feb 6, 2011, at 7:54 AM, R. Kevin Stover wrote: > >> I would. >> I don't now the inner workings of the utility but I assume there's >> something built in to check file integrity before the upgrade process. >> If not then that would be something to seriously think about adding. >> Easy enough to check MD5sums. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 09:36:59 -0600
Jack Brabham <[hidden email]> wrote: Jack, > Hardly a day goes by that there is not at least one "firmware > download problem" string running on the reflector. > Most of which turns out are caused by USB to Serial adapters, Those using real serial reports very rarely report failures. > Most of these USB/serial adapters work just fine for any purpose > except K3 downloads. Mine is embedded in my microHam microKeyer II, > and works perfectly for any other use. The issue is not a USB > driver problem and will not be fixed by reloading the driver. It is > a problem with the K3 bootstrap loader lacking the intelligence to > ignore commands it isn't expecting, and just locking up if it gets > one, at least in the case of my particular interface. If you are trying to load firmware via your microham mirokeyer you are in direct contravention of the expressed instructions on Microham's site and by Joe W4TV, the US distributor for Microham, who is a member of this list and a K3 owner. DON'T TRY TO LOAD K3 FIRMWARE THROUGH ANY MICROHAM DEVICE. -- R. Kevin Stover AC0H ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jack Brabham KZ5A
I am not disputing your point, but want to add that the USB->serial adapters I have had, 3 different types, were prone to lightning damage if not disconnected. I have suffered damage to a serial port, too, over 25 years ago when the discrete driver chips were replaceable. But not in 10 years in Florida, lightning capital of the US.
I am surprised that you have had no other trouble with your adapters. I have a PIC programmer that balks occasionally. Monty K2DLJ On Feb 6, 2011, at 10:36 AM, Jack Brabham wrote: > Grant, > > > On 2/6/2011 8:20 AM, Grant Youngman wrote: >> It seems to be very few people that have a problem updating firmware. > Hardly a day goes by that there is not at least one "firmware download > problem" string running on the reflector. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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In reply to this post by Jack Brabham KZ5A
On 2/6/2011 8:40 AM, K9ZTV wrote:
> > > On 2/6/2011 7:49 AM, Jack Brabham wrote: >> Baring the remote possibility that Elecraft comes up with a more >> sophisticated system for doing these down loads, my plan is to limit >> doing these in the future to about once a year, due to their being such >> a PITA. > Not a good idea, Jack. You should always run the latest firmware, > including Betas. There are tweaks and fixes in nearly every upgrade > not major enough to warrant documentation but > significant enough to have none the less. updates has bought me a improved noise gate and an APF, neither of which was a "must have" for my operating. On the other hand, doing the updates has resulted in a couple of days of down time and a lot of aggravation. Not a particularly good trade off. >> The problem seems to be a general lack of robustness and intelligence in >> the K3's bootstrap loader. For my money, a less simple minded method >> of doing these updates would be a welcomed new feature. > Not so for a variety of reasons exhaustively discussed by others on > the Elecraft reflector since the debut of the K3. I am using the > original USB-232 cable ordered at the same time I ordered the K3 > (serial number 21) which uses Prolific drivers. It is used with a > Toshiba Vista laptop and has never failed to load firmware. As > indicated by those honest enough to follow up their complaints with a > solution-report posting, the problems are seldom (if ever) K3, > Utility, or Converter-cable related. They are nearly always computer, > driver, or operator related. With 5000 K3s out there, and so few > reports of firmware issues, it is clear the problems lay on the > owner's side of the equation and not on Elecraft's side. firmware down loads and "cockpit trouble" certainly plays it's part on occasion. However when connectivity that normally works can not be used for downloads the problem is with the K3 and the downloading system. The "fix" is always elsewhere because owners are left to find a "workaround" with the things they can change. I've been following these threads for the last year. The only thing that has been done "exhaustively" is the usual making up excuses, pointing blame anywhere else, and generally questioning the intelligence of anyone who finds a fault with anything made by Elecraft. > > If I can help you at all, let me know. Thanks. 73 Jack KZ5A > > 73, > > Kent K9ZTV > > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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In reply to this post by Craig Smith-3
I see posts like these often here, and (knock on wood) I have *never* experienced any problem whatsoever in loading firmware into my K3 (#3192) since I have owned it. I dont understand why there is so much angst regarding firmware updates! The computer I use is a Dell GX280 mini desktop. It has one "real" serial port, and a whole bunch of USB ports. Since I have a MicroKeyer2 and microHAM STRONGLY SUGGESTS folks *not* try to upload software through the MK, I have a simple, stupid, manual $3 RS232 switch set up between the computer, the MK and the radio (see the picture on my QRZ page. It makes a nice stand for my wattmeter). One side of the switch puts the MicroKeyer into the radio. The other side of the switch puts the "real" serial port into the radio. I switch the rig's input between serial devices that way, and have never had a problem with EITHER device. I have also uploaded firmware from my older Dell Lattitude C400 into #3192 (and several other K3's) using a Saelig "industrial" USB to Serial adaptor. I believe the Saelig unit has FTDI USB chips. The neat thing about the Saelig unit is that it has two red LED's inside a little window that give you visual feedback that the device is communicating. If the LED's are flashing, its talking! It also has a really long USB cable, so no extension serial cable is needed. Just plug it right in to the radio's serial port and go. I use over 40 of these Salelig adaptors at work to connect things like printers and bar code scanners to computers and have never had an issue with them controlling absolutely any device I throw at them under Win2k, Win XP and Win7. Two control a custom robotic arm in our museum and have been working reliably since 2005. OTOH, I have had lots of problems with Belkin, Radio Shack and "EBay special" USB adaptors in the same applications. The Saelig ones cost $20 delivered. YGWYPF. I find the method of updating the K3 just fine. As far as adding sophistication, I always refer back to my childhood idol, Lt Cmdr. Montgomery Scott of Starfleet: "The more complex they make the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain". -lu- W4LT K3 #3192 -------------------------------- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 07:49:15 -0600 From: Jack Brabham <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download To: [hidden email] Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Craig, The last few times I have attempted downloads to my K3 they failed and it took a few days to get it running again. I've ended up having to remove the K3 from my station setup, and put it on my work bench where I have a "Vintage PC" with a native serial port. Baring the remote possibility that Elecraft comes up with a more sophisticated system for doing these down loads, my plan is to limit doing these in the future to about once a year, due to their being such a PITA. The problem seems to be a general lack of robustness and intelligence in the K3's bootstrap loader. For my money, a less simple minded method of doing these updates would be a welcomed new feature. 73 Jack KZ5A K3 #4165 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Fwd: K3 Failed DSP Firmware Download
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In reply to this post by Craig Smith-3
My first time FW upgrade failed too. The problem? I use Router a
virtual port defining piece of software microHAM uses for their product's interfaces to such things as the microKEYER II. In their manual is a warning in Yellow to not perform FW upgrades via the microKEYER II interface which uses a port in their Router. Indeed - don't do it. microHAM support told me the problem is the Router is continually polling the radio and interferes with the download. While all other features and functions of Elecraft's Utility and Memory Editor works fine, the FW download does not. I have a desktop PC with no serial ports only lots of USB. Elecraft sells a very nice serial RS-232 to USB adapter cable with FTDI chip. Using the FTDI driver to define a separate USB port as a COM port works well. I have also used Prolific drivers for converter cables using Prolific protocol without any attention. Both work really well. It will/would be nice to have Elecraft provide a USB port in the radio like some other manufacturers. ICOM for instance - absolutely trouble free and simple. Copy a file to a thumb drive and stick it in the radio's USB jack and press Upload. Also in the case of ICOM's 7800 and 7700, you can plug a USB keyboard in and run RTTY or PSK - from the keyboard. No paddle needed. Anyway - microHAM has excellent software and hardware but as they say, do not attempt to download FW into any radio using an interface with something like microKEYER II. So when I want to perform a FW update I unplug the microKEYER II originating DB-9 from the K3 and plug in the separate USB/RS232 cable and perform the update. 73, Bob - W6OPO ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Lu Romero - W4LT
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