K3 Deposit Clarification

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

I see there has been some confusion regarding deposits in recent emails.
To clarify this, we just added the following to the shipping status web
page.
73, Eric   WA6HHQ
----

A note regarding K3 deposits:

We originally gave our customers the option of getting a low a low
serial number K3 from our first production run by including an optional
deposit with their order. Once the first production run was filled by
orders (both those with and without deposits) we changed the order form
and stopped giving priority for deposits, but kept them optional for
those who wanted to help us out.

K3 orders received with a deposit before approximately May 14th will
ship before other orders received during that period. After those first
orders are shipped, we will ship the remaining orders in the order they
were received. (Deposits placed after this group are optional and do not
effect shipping date, but we do appreciate the support!)

----
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[M0XDF]

Yes, thanks Eric, that both clarifies it and ties in with how I believe we
thought it would work. Most happy to help you guys out :-)

On 27/11/07 18:10, "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
sent:

> I see there has been some confusion regarding deposits in recent emails.
> To clarify this, we just added the following to the shipping status web
> page.
> 73, Eric   WA6HHQ
--
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried
it.
-Donald Knuth, computer scientist (1938- )


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[k6dgw]

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
> I see there has been some confusion regarding deposits in recent emails.
> To clarify this, we just added the following to the shipping status web
> page.

Just curious - other than placing an order early to get earlier
delivery, from whence cometh the obsession with a low S/N?  The guy who
flies the S/N 0001 aircraft is called a "Test Pilot" and generally makes
more money than a vanilla "Pilot," for good reasons.  I ordered my K3
last month, and with all the reflector traffic about firmware revisions,
downloading, and version control, I'm hoping my S/N will be high enough
that things Aptos-wise will have stabilized some.  Am I missing
something important here?

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2008 Cal QSO Party  4-5 Oct 08
- www.cqp.org

"When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual
who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often,
that individual is crazy."

Dave Barry
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[Simon (HB9DRV)]

Karma, Qudos and a great radio :-)

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Jensen" <[hidden email]>

> Am I missing something important here?
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[Ed Muns, W0YK]

> Just curious - other than placing an order early to get
> earlier delivery, from whence cometh the obsession with a low
> S/N?  The guy who flies the S/N 0001 aircraft is called a
> "Test Pilot" and generally makes more money than a vanilla
> "Pilot," for good reasons.  I ordered my K3 last month, and
> with all the reflector traffic about firmware revisions,
> downloading, and version control, I'm hoping my S/N will be
> high enough that things Aptos-wise will have stabilized some.
>  Am I missing something important here?

Some people place an emotional value on a low serial number.  It identifies
them as an early adopter.  Others abhor the "early adopter" scenario and
want a product already wrung out by the company and its early adopters.
Some people are just eager to get their hands on a great radio and USE it!

With the K3 and Elecraft in general, I have little worry about the integrity
of early serial numbers.  Field test hardware changes were very few and
minor.  Hardware changes since production shipments have been negligible if
at all.  Since the K3 is so heavily firmware-based, that's where the most
changes occur and will continue to occur.  The "hassle" is 2-3 minutes of
downloading, hardly a concern.**  I see no reason to wait for firmware to
"stabilize" or to somehow be more interested in a future K3 than in a
current one.

73,
Ed - W0YK

**  Recent reflector traffic regarding the Loader applet and firmware
revisions can all be ignored if one simply makes sure he is using the latest
Loader on the Elecraft web site.  The Loader automatically manages the
firmware revisions, reading the K3 and downloading the latest versions.
Going back to prior revisions is a few more steps, but easy to do if
desired.

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[Alexandr Kobranov]

There are simply some of us buying low S/N´s and paying for them 100%
deposit. There are also some of us buying anything in "special price
offers". There are some of us never buying but only tyre-kicking.
And there are some of us which do not care about S/N a not waiting for
some "happy hours" - just thinking about future in ham-shack and how
to ballance budget. Not running some kind of "buyers contest"...
It is simply picture of our community with all pros and cons.
I am afraid if our friends in Aptos will be more or strictly
"commercial" there will not be any such rumors (good!) but price will
be close to ICOM/Yaesu and nobody will take care about S/N and
firmware upgrades and developers will not be in so closed loop with
"customers" as Elecraft is doing. I was in some FT-2000 mail-list and
never seen there any reaction from Yaesu excepts some good US guy
communicating and trying to keep users mailed about new FW etc. - but
no messages about one to another day responses, fast FW version u/g
reacting to errors or needs but what was very often was  replacement
of whole units (in some cases several times!) to fix something which
cannot be fixed at all :-)
I undestand that our friend in Aptos maybe made some mistake with
expected number of orders (simply under-estimated) and then
consequently there are some problems with time-table. But there is no
need to give up this as - I am afraid -  there is nothing else to
order :-)
Or is over there at least so good RIG to order now for the similar
money? I do not know, so sending order with deposit, keeping fingers
crossed, being happy to see any other S/N going into the air and
waiting for mid-late January 2008 (but being realistic :-)).

73!
Lexa, OK1DST

Fred Jensen napsal(a):

> Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
>> I see there has been some confusion regarding deposits in recent
>> emails. To clarify this, we just added the following to the shipping
>> status web page.
>
> Just curious - other than placing an order early to get earlier
> delivery, from whence cometh the obsession with a low S/N?  The guy who
> flies the S/N 0001 aircraft is called a "Test Pilot" and generally makes
> more money than a vanilla "Pilot," for good reasons.  I ordered my K3
> last month, and with all the reflector traffic about firmware revisions,
> downloading, and version control, I'm hoping my S/N will be high enough
> that things Aptos-wise will have stabilized some.  Am I missing
> something important here?
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 2008 Cal QSO Party  4-5 Oct 08
> - www.cqp.org
>
> "When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual
> who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often,
> that individual is crazy."
>
> Dave Barry
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>

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[Julian, G4ILO]

On Nov 27, 2007 6:56 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Just curious - other than placing an order early to get earlier
> delivery, from whence cometh the obsession with a low S/N?

I'm not obsessed by the number, I just wanted to get my hands on the
thing and not wait even longer for it than I have already had to.
Admittedly, at the time I placed my order, I didn't realise how much
the K3 was based around software and the extent to which I was going
to end up being a beta tester. But it can be fun being on the bleeding
edge, as long as your life or job doesn't depend on it.

--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf
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[Vic K2VCO]

Fred Jensen wrote:

> Just curious - other than placing an order early to get earlier
> delivery, from whence cometh the obsession with a low S/N?  The guy who
> flies the S/N 0001 aircraft is called a "Test Pilot" and generally makes
> more money than a vanilla "Pilot," for good reasons.  I ordered my K3
> last month, and with all the reflector traffic about firmware revisions,
> downloading, and version control, I'm hoping my S/N will be high enough
> that things Aptos-wise will have stabilized some.  Am I missing
> something important here?

The test pilots, or beta testers, took a few arrows in their backs (can
I mix metaphors or what?) but overall the problems were few considering
the complexity of the project, and Elecraft was very good about fixing them.

Also, keep in mind that reading the reflector tends to exaggerate the
problems. The firmware downloading, for example, is very simple and
reliable.

There's nothing wrong with waiting for things to stabilize, but they are
not actually very unstable now.

Anyway, test pilots don't do it for the money!
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
K3 no. 00007
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[wolfmanjack]

---- Alexandr Kobranov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...But there is no
> need to give up this as - I am afraid -  there is nothing else to
> order :-)

This is so true. This is where the party is at; enjoy the festivities!

73 John K7FD
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[Chris G3SJJ]

Thanks Eric, that confirms what I thought was intended. Hopefully then I
am in the first prodn run with deposit.

Not particularly interested in low serial numbers but wanted to get my
hands on the best contest radio ever which is why I opted to pay the
deposit for early delivery. The contests I had planned with the K3 in
July, September and October weren't so important although it would have
been a pleasant bonus, but Jan, Feb and March are very important for me,
so here's hoping!

Chris G3SJJ



Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:

> I see there has been some confusion regarding deposits in recent
> emails. To clarify this, we just added the following to the shipping
> status web page.
> 73, Eric   WA6HHQ
> ----
>
> A note regarding K3 deposits:
>
> We originally gave our customers the option of getting a low a low
> serial number K3 from our first production run by including an
> optional deposit with their order. Once the first production run was
> filled by orders (both those with and without deposits) we changed the
> order form and stopped giving priority for deposits, but kept them
> optional for those who wanted to help us out.
>
> K3 orders received with a deposit before approximately May 14th will
> ship before other orders received during that period. After those
> first orders are shipped, we will ship the remaining orders in the
> order they were received. (Deposits placed after this group are
> optional and do not effect shipping date, but we do appreciate the
> support!)
>
> ----
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

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[Jerry Flanders]

I waited until last month also, Fred. I wanted one that already had
the important hardware fixes that are almost always needed in new
products. Let the early adopters beta test the hardware and get the
final circuits perfected BEFORE they ship mine in January (come to
think of it, Lisa didn't say _which_ January - I hope she meant 2008...).

Jerry W4UK

At 01:56 PM 11/27/2007, Fred Jensen wrote:


><SNIP>  I ordered my K3 last month, and with all the reflector
>traffic about firmware revisions, downloading, and version control,
>I'm hoping my S/N will be high enough that things Aptos-wise will
>have stabilized some.  Am I missing something important here?
>
>73,
>
>Fred K6DGW

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[Bill Johnson-9]

Fred and co,

I was a K2 tester.  It may be of value to wait... if one isn't that
interested in the effort to follow development and stay up-to-date with the
equipment works. But that is the fun! I was a tester for the KX1, even
though I requested serial #35 for my KX1 to match my K2.  (My KX1 would have
been within the first serial #10 , otherwise but it did not matter to me.)
I have also bought a later model K2 in the 5000+ range which includes all
the updated board changes, etc.  I am using the later model K2 and the KX1.
The earliest model K2 #35 just sits, but not collecting dust as I have
covered it.  I even replaced the battery.  It was a wonderful experience to
build and update.  It is up-to-date for what I wanted.

Now I am thinking that I don't need 2 K2's fully loaded, but would like a K3
fully loaded.  The initial K2 has all the options except the high power...
and has the new battery.  So to finance the K3 which I would like to acquire
and would also like to get a K1 to fill the "stable"   I am in a dilemma as
to which K2 I should sell.  I am thinking the early one which has been
modified more the later one and give someone a deal. So I dream and ponder.

I send this email as I hope it will help others try to figure out what to do
with equipment they might want to buy but also what fits in with what they
want to do.  A collector wants the early edition... the operator wants the
later?  I am not sure since I fit both.

Bill
K9YEQ
K2 #35, K2 # 5279, KX1 #35, Mini Modules, etc.  

-----Original Message-----

I waited until last month also, Fred. I wanted one that already had
the important hardware fixes that are almost always needed in new
products. Let the early adopters beta test the hardware and get the
final circuits perfected BEFORE they ship mine in January (come to
think of it, Lisa didn't say _which_ January - I hope she meant 2008...).

Jerry W4UK


><SNIP>  I ordered my K3 last month, and with all the reflector
>traffic about firmware revisions, downloading, and version control,
>I'm hoping my S/N will be high enough that things Aptos-wise will
>have stabilized some.  Am I missing something important here?
>
>73,
>
>Fred K6DGW

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[Craig Rairdin]

> Just curious - other than placing an order early to get earlier
> delivery, from whence cometh the obsession with a low S/N?  The guy
> who flies the S/N 0001 aircraft is called a "Test Pilot" and
> generally makes more money than a vanilla "Pilot," for good reasons.  

As a pilot, I'd be happy to fly S/N 0001 of just about any general aviation
airplane. At Oshkosh this year, Cessna introduced a entry-level 2-seat
airplane that's not going to ship for about two years. They took something
like 720 $5000 deposits in the first two weeks. Go figure.

I placed my K3 order within 15 minutes of the posting of the announcement to
the reflector because I have completely enjoyed my experience with the KX1,
K1 and K2 and wanted to get my hands on a K3 ASAP.

In addition to having it in time for CW SS, it was pretty cool to see one of
the manual errata sheets look like it was copied from my email comments
after building the kit. There's a certain pleasure that comes from plowing
the ground and making it easier for the next bunch of pioneers to move in.
It's like being on the development team but after all the really hard work
is done. :-)

There will come a time when my K3 will be hard to sell because it has a low
serial number. Fortunately, I'll be dead then and I won't care. My kids
already know they're pretty much screwed. They'll inherit a bunch of geezer
gear (ham radio equipment) and of course the Sunbeam toaster museum
(http://www.automaticbeyondbelief.org). Serves 'em right for making fun of
my hobbies. :-)

Craig
NZ0R
K3/100 #25

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[Dave Martin-2]

On Nov 28, 2007 1:14 AM, Craig Rairdin <[hidden email]> wrote:
....

> There will come a time when my K3 will be hard to sell because it has a low
> serial number. Fortunately, I'll be dead then and I won't care. My kids
> already know they're pretty much screwed. They'll inherit a bunch of geezer
> gear (ham radio equipment) and of course the Sunbeam toaster museum
> (http://www.automaticbeyondbelief.org). Serves 'em right for making fun of
> my hobbies. :-)

Hey, I have two of those toasters, one as a parts car and the other a
daily driver.  Thanks for the link.  I expect my K3 to last as long as
they have.

Dave  W5DHM
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[M0XDF]

I had a colleague who collected and repaired them too - that was back in
late 80's

On 28/11/07 13:17, "Dave Martin" <[hidden email]> sent:

> On Nov 28, 2007 1:14 AM, Craig Rairdin <[hidden email]> wrote:
and of course the Sunbeam toaster museum
>> (http://www.automaticbeyondbelief.org). Serves 'em right for making fun of
>> my hobbies. :-)
>
> Hey, I have two of those toasters, one as a parts car and the other a
> daily driver.  Thanks for the link.

How much would a new Sunbeam toaster cost today, if it was still available
retail.

--
Once upon a time a man whose axe was missing suspected his neighbour's son.
The boy walked like a thief, looked like a thief, and spoke like a thief.
But the man found his axe while digging in the valley, and the next time he
saw his neighbour's son, the boy walked, looked and spoke like any other
child. -Lao-tzu, philosopher (6th century BCE)
 


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[KENT TRIMBLE]

Nonsense.  Upgradable radios are equal in functionality regardless of
serial number.

K9ZTV



Someone wrote:

>>There will come a time when my K3 will be hard to sell because it has a low
>>serial number.
>>
>  
>
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[Craig Rairdin]

>>There will come a time when my K3 will be hard to sell because it has a
low
>>serial number.

>Nonsense.  Upgradable radios are equal in functionality regardless of
>serial number.

You know that, and I know that, but will you be around to buy my K3?

Craig
NZ0R

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[Steve Sacco NN4X]

Let's use a bit of logic here: It's not possible to pass judgement on
the future resale value of low SN units, except in retrospect.  Who
knows what the future will bring?  Perhaps, for whatever reason,
there will be hardware revisions which make the K3 mark II, mark III,
etcetera more desirable.

Even if that doesn't occur, a lower SN would denote an older unit,
and would therefore be considered less desirable, except perhaps for
the very lowest SN's.

Analagous with this, IMO, folks need to recalibrate their thinking
with respect to radios.  The days of buying a Collins S-Line, and
having a top-line rig for 30 years, are OVER.

Nowadays, radios are essential computers with enough RF hardware to
let them RX and TX.  We all know what the PC/computer/semiconductor
markets looks like: they get better/faster/cheaper every month.  A
ten year old PC?   No thanks!  It'll be the same with
radios.  Imagine what'll be possible in DSP technology ten years
hence!  Same with display technology, and networking interfaces.  Who
would want a 10 year old K3?  Not me!

Awhile ago, there was an angst-ridden thread here about the
firmware.  The general concern was: "What if Elecraft went out of
business in five [or some other number well into the future]?  What
would happen to the firmware code?"  I nearly fell out of my chair,
laughing.  Who cares?!  In five years, there will be even
cooler/higher performing/less expensive radios available.  Folks were
getting their panties in a knot based on 50 year old assumptions
(that the radio will be viable for a long, long time), and it was an
unfortunate waste of perfectly good energy.

I'd also hope that we're able to drag ourselves away from our 1950's,
analog-based technology, and move to digital modes.  People are
asking about AM?  Why not spark gap?  Let's move FORWARD.  We're
supposed to be on the cutting edge of technology, and we're not there
anymore.  Not even close.

All IMO.

73,
Steve NN4X
EL98jh

P.S: Also one of those folks who "misunderstood" that, by paying a
down payment, I'd get priority treatment.





  _.    _.   ...._   _.._   [hidden email]


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[Buck - k4ia]

In a message dated 12/1/2007 8:58:33 A.M.  Eastern Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:
Imagine what'll be  possible in DSP technology ten years
hence!  Same with display  technology, and networking interfaces.  Who
would want a 10 year old  K3?  Not me!

Since the K3 is modular, I would presume plugging in a  new DSP board would
supply whatever horsepower is needed.  We'll be  replacing boards and software,
not entire radios.

If I get to enjoy my K3  for 5 years and sell it for half what I paid, I
still got a bargain - my hobby  only cost $1,200/5 = $240 a year or the equivalent
of a couple of rounds of  golf, two nice dinners out or a visit to the
dentist.

Craig  "Buck"
k4ia
Fredericksburg, Virginia USA  




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[wolfmanjack]

While I'll agree we should be looking ahead, I certainly enjoy time spent with my old friends here in the shack. I still get a kick out of firing up my Drake B Line and I'm sure I could sell the twins in a heartbeat...so, no, those days aren't quite OVER yet. As long as there is someone left who appreciates the radios for what they are, they will be around...

73 John K7FD


---- Steve Sacco NN4X <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Let's use a bit of logic here: It's not possible to pass judgement on
> the future resale value of low SN units, except in retrospect.  Who
> knows what the future will bring?  Perhaps, for whatever reason,
> there will be hardware revisions which make the K3 mark II, mark III,
> etcetera more desirable.
>
> Even if that doesn't occur, a lower SN would denote an older unit,
> and would therefore be considered less desirable, except perhaps for
> the very lowest SN's.
>
> Analagous with this, IMO, folks need to recalibrate their thinking
> with respect to radios.  The days of buying a Collins S-Line, and
> having a top-line rig for 30 years, are OVER.
>
> Nowadays, radios are essential computers with enough RF hardware to
> let them RX and TX.  We all know what the PC/computer/semiconductor
> markets looks like: they get better/faster/cheaper every month.  A
> ten year old PC?   No thanks!  It'll be the same with
> radios.  Imagine what'll be possible in DSP technology ten years
> hence!  Same with display technology, and networking interfaces.  Who
> would want a 10 year old K3?  Not me!
>
> Awhile ago, there was an angst-ridden thread here about the
> firmware.  The general concern was: "What if Elecraft went out of
> business in five [or some other number well into the future]?  What
> would happen to the firmware code?"  I nearly fell out of my chair,
> laughing.  Who cares?!  In five years, there will be even
> cooler/higher performing/less expensive radios available.  Folks were
> getting their panties in a knot based on 50 year old assumptions
> (that the radio will be viable for a long, long time), and it was an
> unfortunate waste of perfectly good energy.
>
> I'd also hope that we're able to drag ourselves away from our 1950's,
> analog-based technology, and move to digital modes.  People are
> asking about AM?  Why not spark gap?  Let's move FORWARD.  We're
> supposed to be on the cutting edge of technology, and we're not there
> anymore.  Not even close.
>
> All IMO.
>
> 73,
> Steve NN4X
> EL98jh
>
> P.S: Also one of those folks who "misunderstood" that, by paying a
> down payment, I'd get priority treatment.
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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