[K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction

[Jim Cox]

I agree fully Joe.  Also no matter how well written, illustrated, etc the
manual may be, it is worthless if the user doesn't study it in detail to
learn all the features of the equipment.  Many never look at the manual,
just ask a question on a reflector.

Jim K4JAF


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Need for advice was;(More Thorough Documentation)

>
>
>> Someone else argued that to become an expert with the K3, it
>> predominately comesfrom using the equipment. That is true.  In
> > some respects, what is forgotten there is that some of you,
> > probably many of you have benefitted from the tribal knowledge
> > of being there early when it was first introduced and having
> > been through the iterative process of refinement and feature
> > extension.  Maybe you remember the passionate pleas on the
> > reflector and the responses from the Elecraft team and other
> > users - that they'd bring more greatness to the user community.
> > You probably don't need a manual. Your mental model got spooled
> > up over some period of time. You know better why things are the
> > way they are and what you can do with those things.
>
> I need to disagree with the emotion expressed here.  While having
> been present early on may provide some insight into *why* things
> are as they are, it *in no way* provides any added insight into
> *how* things work or the best way to use the available tools in
> the K3.
>
> Just as an old-time DXer can tall the new kid on the block that
> some stations work "split" nobody can provide a newly minted no-
> code Extra knowledge and skill to actually copy the DX station
> so he knows who the station worked, find that station in the
> pile-up, learn the DX's operating habits - is he taking tail-
> enders on his listening frequency, is he moving by a fixed step
> between callers, is he moving at random, etc.  Nobody can teach
> someone who doesn't know how to zero beat how to zero beat ...
> all of those things are SKILLS learned from doing not reading
> a book.
>
> The old joke:  Q - "how do I get to Carnegie Hall?"
> A - Practice, Practice, Practice!"  Is never more true than
> with any advanced transceiver.  The manual can provide (and the
> K3 manual does) the details of what a control does but it can
> not and should not be expected to anticipate every possible
> way and circumstance under which a control might be used.
>
> The "I don't need to practice, I just bought this expensive
> Stradivarius, it should make me a star" attitude is pervasive
> in society today ... even to those who think that failures
> in the education system can't be due to the student who will
> not pay attention or study but must be due to teachers who
> are failing to "teach."
>
> Even a poorly written equipment manual (and Elecraft's are
> by no means poorly written) generally has enough information
> to operate the equipment.  No matter how simple or complex
> the equipment, it is up to the user to learn how to use the
> equipment, it is not the job of the equipment, manufacturer,
> or dealer to think for the user.
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 12/7/2010 7:47 PM, samuel ernst-fortin wrote:
>> Another Sam wrote:
>>>>
>> "When folks explain their process".
>>>>
>>
>> Ahh yes, well written. Another part of adding value is to describe
>> technique
>> with what is available.
>>
>> Strategies. Usage Scenarios. Methodology. Why something exists, not just
>> the
>> what. Communicating intent is often omitted and it's importance
>> underestimated... When someone understands the why, all of a sudden the
>> light-bulbs illuminate.
>>
>> Prescriptive information is good for somethings. Have you ever dealt with
>> a
>> Helpdesk for some product and know you were working with someone that was
>> walking down a trouble-shooting checklist? And you know you know more
>> about the
>> issue and want to short circuit that avenue? You assess early on they
>> only know
>> the product at a prescriptive level?
>>
>> On the other hand, having an grasp of the descriptive is quite a
>> different story
>> and presents the ahh-haa moments that allows people to take things apart
>> (mentally) and put them back together in ways you didn't anticipate. They
>> begin
>> to see relationships and different paths from where they are, to where
>> they want
>> to go.
>>
>> Someone else argued that to become an expert with the K3, it
>> predominately comes
>> from using the equipment. That is true. In some respects, what is
>> forgotten
>> there is that some of you, probably many of you have benefitted from the
>> tribal
>> knowledge of being there early when it was first introduced and having
>> been
>> through the iterative process of refinement and feature extension. Maybe
>> you
>> remember the passionate pleas on the reflector and the responses from the
>> Elecraft team and other users - that they'd bring more greatness to the
>> user
>> community. You probably don't need a manual. Your mental model got
>> spooled up
>> over some period of time. You know better why things are the way they are
>> an
>> what you can do with those things.
>>
>> But asking someone to search the reflector to come to that level of
>> understanding and appreciation - would be ineffective.
>>
>> There are those considering the rig, or coming fairly late to the party
>> that
>> don't have this history. They aren't cognitively loaded when they sit
>> down in
>> front of the rig with that model. They are not likely to be able to
>> contribute
>> more and something fresh and innovative unless you can bring them to
>> speed.
>> Their knowledge is shallow and narrow.
>>
>> As if an additional usage guide, technical white paper series or
>> instructional
>> DVDs weren't enough suggestions... let me stir one more time... how about
>> an
>> Elecraft Remote Learning Series or Courseware via the Web? Buy a radio,
>> attend a
>> quarterly held two or three day class presented by the designers on
>> advanced
>> topics? OK, maybe it's a four-hour class. :) Crazy Huh? Got a lot of
>> members?
>> Set up a computer and projector at someone's home... throw in some pizza
>> and
>> beverages of choice. Maybe even try some hands-on exercises. Everybody
>> gets to
>> learn about the latest and greatest features and hints, tips and tricks
>> of
>> operating the rig presented by the gurus... those pushing the envelope of
>> it's
>> capabilities.
>>
>> Besides Manual as sales vehicle. Yes, yes. It most certainly is...there
>> are MORE
>> ways you can bring additional value to and for the K3 community present
>> and
>> future...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Sam Morgan<[hidden email]>
>> To: "[hidden email]"<[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Tue, December 7, 2010 2:17:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3  Need for advice was; (More Thorough
>> Documentation)
>>
>>
>> one thing that would also help......
>> when folks explain their process,
>> how they got there, and what their setting are.....
>>
>> they really must include the relavent settings for
>> AGC DCY, AGC HLD, AGC PLS, AGC SLP, AGC THR, AGC-F and AGC-S
>>
>> with out these as a reference point
>> what ever comments are made
>> are so general as to mean very little
>> to anyone wishing to try to duplicate those results
>>
>> GB&  73
>> K5OAI
>> Sam Morgan
>>
>> On 12/7/2010 12:30 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>>
>>> I run my K3 with AGC on [usually fast for CW, slow for SSB], RF Gain at
>>> max, and I've been very pleased by it's performance.  When I still had
>>> my TS-850, I tried some A/B comparisons and signals I might just discern
>>> on the 850, I could get fairly good copy on with the K3.  Following some
>>> of the discussions recently, I've experimented with what I call the
>>> "SX-28 Method" I used nearly a lifetime ago ... AGC off, AF max, ride
>>> the RF gain.  I tried it in the Spartan Sprint last night on 40m, when
>>> all of the signals were very weak ... so far, I think it is a hung jury.
>>>     We'll see.  In the end, it appears to me that there is no substitute
>>> for just using it and gaining experience.
>>>
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