K3 P3 and KAT500

[Jim Brown-10]

On Sun,4/30/2017 8:04 AM, KG7FYI wrote:
> I have the second edition of Fred Cady's book. Point me  in the right direction and I'll plow through it.

While Fred's books provides a lot of good info in easy to read form,
there's very little in that that can't be learned simply by studying the
Elecraft User Manuals for your product. Note my use of the word
"studying." This is necessary whether you're using Elecraft manuals
(free) or Fred's (not free).

Elecraft K3, K3S, KX2, and KX3 all offer a high degree of customization
and many controls to fit the needs of individual users. The Elecraft
manuals are pretty good at providing detail of how all those settings
and controls work. When set up properly to match individual operating
style and needs, it's rare to need to use a menu except to choose very
different styles and needs.

Taken together, the posts in this thread suggest a mental laziness about
STUDYING the reference materials -- FCC Rules, equipment manuals, ARRL
Handbook, ARRL Operating Manual, even the ARRL study guides for the
license exams (and I mean the fundamental concepts, not just Q&A). Those
of us who know what's going on and how things work have done that. It
ain't that we're that much smarter, it's that we've paid our dues by
studying.

73, Jim K9YC

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[Bill Frantz]

I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes.
Being able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute
for any emergency plan.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

>Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover
>most of the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad
>hoc - tossed into trees or even an old fence line.
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[KG7FYI]

Well Jim, I appreciate your concern but to accuse me of laziness is
offensive and uncalled for. I think you are presumptuous to know my
circumstance and make a judgment of my character based on a few simple
questions posted on a email forum. Your analysis is full of snobbery and
ill intent. It's really a turn off  from someone who is trying to learn
the radio, its operation and functions. I think your attitude and sense
of internet etiquette needs adjustment if you don't mind me saying.

I am choosing to learn this system at my own pace. I've built and
configured the system just fine with this one defugalty. So back off.

Stan

KG7FYI


On 04/30/2017 12:40 PM, Jim Brown-10 [via Elecraft] wrote:

> On Sun,4/30/2017 8:04 AM, KG7FYI wrote:
> > I have the second edition of Fred Cady's book. Point me  in the
> right direction and I'll plow through it.
>
> While Fred's books provides a lot of good info in easy to read form,
> there's very little in that that can't be learned simply by studying the
> Elecraft User Manuals for your product. Note my use of the word
> "studying." This is necessary whether you're using Elecraft manuals
> (free) or Fred's (not free).
>
> Elecraft K3, K3S, KX2, and KX3 all offer a high degree of customization
> and many controls to fit the needs of individual users. The Elecraft
> manuals are pretty good at providing detail of how all those settings
> and controls work. When set up properly to match individual operating
> style and needs, it's rare to need to use a menu except to choose very
> different styles and needs.
>
> Taken together, the posts in this thread suggest a mental laziness about
> STUDYING the reference materials -- FCC Rules, equipment manuals, ARRL
> Handbook, ARRL Operating Manual, even the ARRL study guides for the
> license exams (and I mean the fundamental concepts, not just Q&A). Those
> of us who know what's going on and how things work have done that. It
> ain't that we're that much smarter, it's that we've paid our dues by
> studying.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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I lose my antennas about once each year to straight line winds. Flying
branches knock them down.  But if the wires are still intact I can run
the nets with the lowered antennas.  Using less than optimal antennas
works; just not as well as perfect antennas.  In an emergency I really
don't care about perfect performance, I simply want to contact someone
for assistance.  By all means put up the best antenna you can just
remember any antenna can make contacts.

Years ago I wrote some software to display antenna propagation patterns
as a half wave dipole was lowered from 1 wavelength above ground until
it was on the ground.  The results were pretty interesting.  By using
the program I found many heights would work well depending on where I
wanted to contact.  At less than 1/10 wavelength above the ground the
radiation patterns got rather odd but still worked for in-state comms.  
Once I had modeled what was going to happen I tested it by dropping my
antennas to different heights and tested comms.  Theory and practice
correlated quite nicely.

     Kevin.  KD5ONS

P. S. The application also modeled 1/4 wave verticals and loop
antennas.  I never found the time to model the Yagi-Uda, the math got
too hairy.  Using Euler's equation a few times got me through the three
antenna types I was able to model.  Beating on the Bessel functions
would have taken longer than the time I had allotted to me.

      K.


On 4/30/2017 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:

> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being
> able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any
> emergency plan.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters. You'll find you can cover most of
>> the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed
>> into trees or even an old fence line.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz        | I don't have high-speed      | Periwinkle
> [phone]      | internet. I have DSL.        | 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |                              | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>
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[Nr4c]

If not "locked", a K3 will tune continuously from a very low frequency like 100 KHz up to the top of 6 meters at 54 MHZ. The VFO does not know about BANDS.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 2:36 PM, KG7FYI <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I believe the below was the problem.
>
>>> If you were on 24 mhz you were on the 12 meter band. NO you cant dial
>>> down to 28.4 which is not in the 12 meter band
>>>
>>> tapping up is not taking you to Ten Meters
>>> for some reason you are in 12 meters still
>>> it has happened to me too
>
>> On 04/30/2017 10:58 AM, Don Wilhelm [via Elecraft] wrote:
>> Stan,
>>
>> Can you tune the VFO on other bands?  If not, you likely have the VFO
>> locked - look for the little 'padlock' icon in the upper right corner of
>> the display.  Hold the LOCK button to the right of VFO A knob to toggle
>> LOCK on and off.
>>
>> What happens when you do a Direct Frequency Enter?  You must place a
>> decimal after the MHz digits and when you have entered 28.4 tap the
>> ENTER button (lower right of the number keypad).
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 4/30/2017 11:04 AM, KG7FYI wrote:
>>
>>>> This is very confusing, Stan.  Are you saying that if you tap BAND
>> (up),
>>>> you move from 24 to 28.676 MHz and then can't dial VFO A down to 28.4?
>>> Yes, that is exactly what is happening. I can assure you it is not
>>> something I programmed into the system.  I checked the config menu (BND
>>> MAP) and all bands are in. Somehow I may have unintentionally
>> programmed
>>> an issue into the system. I haven't programmed anything into the system
>>> so resetting the defaults should be no loss if all goes well. The
>>> curiosity is how I got into this mix in the first place. Included in
>>> this email is an image of the front panel that might give a clue.
>>>
>>> I have the second edition of Fred Cady's book. Point me  in the right
>>> direction and I'll plow through it.
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>
> -----
> Stan KG7FYI
> --
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> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Carl Clawson-3]

True dat. Once I accidentally worked Mexico on a dummy load from here in
the valley below Kevin's mountain in NW Oregon.

73 -- WS7L

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 1:40 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ... just remember any antenna can make contacts.
>
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[Clay Autery]

Mr....  you've made several mistakes in judgement based on what appears
to be false assumptions.  Of course, there are also times where folks
bump heads by sheer accidental reasons...  I'd like to think we have a
case of the second type here...

You've been provided excellent information, and some truthful expression
of how you have "come across" to this group.

Frankly, I remember thinking when I read his response to you:

"He was a lot nicer than I would have been."

I chose not to write a response so as not to appear "cantankerous", but
I can't let this go.

Trust me, Jim has no pride invested in this group... he's simply trying
to help you.
Being a butt-head BACK to him is incredibly disrespectful to a very nice
man and an incredibly knowledgeable resource, and likely not your best
course of action.

Have a good day,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 4/30/2017 3:26 PM, KG7FYI wrote:

> Well Jim, I appreciate your concern but to accuse me of laziness is
> offensive and uncalled for. I think you are presumptuous to know my
> circumstance and make a judgment of my character based on a few simple
> questions posted on a email forum. Your analysis is full of snobbery and
> ill intent. It's really a turn off  from someone who is trying to learn
> the radio, its operation and functions. I think your attitude and sense
> of internet etiquette needs adjustment if you don't mind me saying.
>
> I am choosing to learn this system at my own pace. I've built and
> configured the system just fine with this one defugalty. So back off.
>
> Stan
>
> KG7FYI
>
>
> On 04/30/2017 12:40 PM, Jim Brown-10 [via Elecraft] wrote:
>> On Sun,4/30/2017 8:04 AM, KG7FYI wrote:
>>> I have the second edition of Fred Cady's book. Point me  in the
>> right direction and I'll plow through it.
>>
>> While Fred's books provides a lot of good info in easy to read form,
>> there's very little in that that can't be learned simply by studying the
>> Elecraft User Manuals for your product. Note my use of the word
>> "studying." This is necessary whether you're using Elecraft manuals
>> (free) or Fred's (not free).
>>
>> Elecraft K3, K3S, KX2, and KX3 all offer a high degree of customization
>> and many controls to fit the needs of individual users. The Elecraft
>> manuals are pretty good at providing detail of how all those settings
>> and controls work. When set up properly to match individual operating
>> style and needs, it's rare to need to use a menu except to choose very
>> different styles and needs.
>>
>> Taken together, the posts in this thread suggest a mental laziness about
>> STUDYING the reference materials -- FCC Rules, equipment manuals, ARRL
>> Handbook, ARRL Operating Manual, even the ARRL study guides for the
>> license exams (and I mean the fundamental concepts, not just Q&A). Those
>> of us who know what's going on and how things work have done that. It
>> ain't that we're that much smarter, it's that we've paid our dues by
>> studying.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7630131&i=0>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
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>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the
>> discussion below:
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>>
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>
>
>
>
> -----
> Stan KG7FYI
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-P3-and-KAT500-tp7629969p7630134.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft mailing list]

Clay,

Do have a horse in this race? I believe Mr. Brown can defend himself. I agree with other gentleman that Jim can be very offensive in his responses sometimes. That has been well documented in this forum and others. It's against the spirit of ham radio and you are sanctioning that type of conduct with your response.

73,
Robert-W4/KP4Y

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 5:43 PM, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The potential Cascadia earthquake could be 9.0. That means that every tower will fall, maybe even those built like this CHP/CalOES tower.
>
> http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/ <http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/>
>
> That is why I suggested easily erected wire antennas and small beams, like a 10m Moxon. After the big one, it will be Field Day, not “flip the switch on the linear”.
>
> Regular practice with field antennas will be more useful preparation than a big antenna farm. Maybe some regular exercises with a Par EndFedZ antenna, or even SOTA activations.
>
> http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/ <http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/>
>
> More info on the potential Cascadia earthquake.
>
> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one <http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one>
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.
>>
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>
>>> On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>
>>> Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into trees or even an old fence line.
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Bill Frantz        | I don't have high-speed      | Periwinkle
>> [phone]      | internet. I have DSL.        | 16345 Englewood Ave
>> www.pwpconsult.com |                              | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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When we get that 9.0 quake many of my local roads will go away. The
gravel logging roads carved into the side of the mountain will
collapse.  They regularly do so during our torrential rain season.  A
quake will just make it worse.  Plus the number of trees I'll have to
cut between here and my mailbox will take at least a 5 gallon container
of fuel.  Luckily the CB radios will still work so I can get the local
loggers to carve me out.

However, at that point I'll have to worry about all the bridges between
here and there.  Only the smallest ones will have a chance of remaining
passable.  I have charged deep cycle marine batteries and reels of spare
antenna wire.  As long as I have a roof over my head I'll be able to
communicate.  Even then I do have a tent to live in until civilization
rights itself again.  The local grouse, rabbit, and deer population may
take a hit though :)

     GL in the big one,

          Kevin.  KD5ONS

On 4/30/2017 2:43 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> The potential Cascadia earthquake could be 9.0. That means that every tower will fall, maybe even those built like this CHP/CalOES tower.
>
> http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/ <http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/>
>
> That is why I suggested easily erected wire antennas and small beams, like a 10m Moxon. After the big one, it will be Field Day, not “flip the switch on the linear”.
>
> Regular practice with field antennas will be more useful preparation than a big antenna farm. Maybe some regular exercises with a Par EndFedZ antenna, or even SOTA activations.
>
> http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/ <http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/>
>
> More info on the potential Cascadia earthquake.
>
> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one <http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one>
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.
>>
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>
>> On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>> Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into trees or even an old fence line.
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Bill Frantz        | I don't have high-speed      | Periwinkle
>> [phone]      | internet. I have DSL.        | 16345 Englewood Ave
>> www.pwpconsult.com |                              | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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[k6dgw]

FWIW:  When we moved here in 2015, I joined the W7RN crew and began to
use the station remotely.  Very high Coefficient of Aerial Aluminum on 7
or so towers, very low noise levels.  I had been checking into the
NorCal traffic net on 80 and wanted to continue.  The main 80 meter
antenna at W7RN is a near-full-size 3-el yagi at about 160 ft [~48 m].  
It fires flames at Mongolia very nicely, however the NorCal stations at
80-150 mi [130-240 km] from me were around S5-S7.

Here at home, we are members of an HOA, everyone can fill in the blanks
from that.  Just for grins, I installed an end-fed wire I got on-line on
the wood fence.  It runs on electric fence insulators and is about 6 ft
[1.8 m] high, with a 90 deg bend about 1/3 of the way down.  CA stations
on 80 are 10 to 20 dB over S9 on it.  I have discovered that it actually
works way better than I expected for NA contacts, and hits KH6 pretty
well on 20. I make a lot of Q's with it in the Wednesday CWOps Tests
when I manage to get on.  I won't make Honor Roll with it, but it is
very surprising at 100 W from my K3.  I bought another and will use it
into a tree from Pershing County NV in the 7QP next weekend.

Our fan dipoles in SE Asia were 20-30 ft high at most and worked just
fine, even to the Philippines.  For emergency uses, I'd worry less about
the mathematics of antenna radiation and attempting to precisely
optimize it, and much more about ease of installation and survivability.

If it isn't buried and you can cram power into it [and Elecraft ATU's
are very good at that], it will radiate.

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 4/30/2017 3:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Ground losses mount rapidly as a horizontal antenna is lowered closer to the
> earth. So, while the pattern may show the main lobe straight up, the amount
> of RF lost in the earth below increases.
>
> EZNEC confirmed to me that about 0.2 wavelengths up is the optimum height
> for the strongest vertical lobe (NVIS pattern). That fits with the fact that
> 0.2 wavelength spacing between the driven element and reflector of a Yagi
> produces the maximum gain. Running a wire near the ground helps too, since
> the earth is, at best, a poor dielectric instead of an efficient reflector.
>
> Well supported towers have withstood some serious quakes, including our
> land-mobile repeater towers in the Loma Prieta earthquake that broke the
> S.F. Bay bridge and knocked down a good part of downtown Santa Cruz back in
> the 80's.
>

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[kw9e]

I better order a K3S quick as Elecraft will be toast.

Peter LaBissoniere
[hidden email]

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I was at work during the Loma Prieta earthquake. Our HP building (now a Tesla building) on Deer Creek Road had hydrogen piping and “HF Waste” piping. That was fine, but a 4” main in the sprinkler system broke, soaking lab notebooks. I remember planning a route home to Mountain View that did not go under or over any bridges. I still had to deal with a water main break.
>
> And then there was Hurricane Betsy when I was growing up in Baton Rouge. No phone for 7 days and no power for 10 days. The toppled red oak in the back yard was the best tree fort ever.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 3:26 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>> When we get that 9.0 quake many of my local roads will go away. The gravel logging roads carved into the side of the mountain will collapse.  They regularly do so during our torrential rain season.  A quake will just make it worse.  Plus the number of trees I'll have to cut between here and my mailbox will take at least a 5 gallon container of fuel.  Luckily the CB radios will still work so I can get the local loggers to carve me out.
>>
>> However, at that point I'll have to worry about all the bridges between here and there.  Only the smallest ones will have a chance of remaining passable.  I have charged deep cycle marine batteries and reels of spare antenna wire.  As long as I have a roof over my head I'll be able to communicate.  Even then I do have a tent to live in until civilization rights itself again.  The local grouse, rabbit, and deer population may take a hit though :)
>>
>>   GL in the big one,
>>
>>        Kevin.  KD5ONS
>>
>> On 4/30/2017 2:43 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>>> The potential Cascadia earthquake could be 9.0. That means that every tower will fall, maybe even those built like this CHP/CalOES tower.
>>>
>>> http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/ <http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/>
>>>
>>> That is why I suggested easily erected wire antennas and small beams, like a 10m Moxon. After the big one, it will be Field Day, not “flip the switch on the linear”.
>>>
>>> Regular practice with field antennas will be more useful preparation than a big antenna farm. Maybe some regular exercises with a Par EndFedZ antenna, or even SOTA activations.
>>>
>>> http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/ <http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/>
>>>
>>> More info on the potential Cascadia earthquake.
>>>
>>> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one <http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one>
>>>
>>> wunder
>>> K6WRU
>>> Walter Underwood
>>> CM87wj
>>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>>
>>>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.
>>>>
>>>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>>>
>>>> On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into trees or even an old fence line.
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Bill Frantz        | I don't have high-speed      | Periwinkle
>>>> [phone]      | internet. I have DSL.        | 16345 Englewood Ave
>>>> www.pwpconsult.com |                              | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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[k6dgw]

The 1964 Alaska earthquake was a 9.2 centered SSE of Anchorage.  I was
at Galena AFS at the time, on the Yukon River in the northern interior
just south of the Arctic Circle. It's fairly flat up there and after we
realized there was an earthquake, we could watch to the south and it
appeared that there were ground waves moving rapidly toward us.  It
ultimately broke off the wooden flag pole in front of the chow hall.

The WW2-era wooden hanger and control tower survived just fine, some
bookcases toppled and spilled coffee was about all that happened.  The
reinforced concrete alert hangars ... not so well. Much of the damage in
Anchorage was the result of liquification of the ancient stream bed
beneath it.

The effects of any given magnitude earthquake are almost completely
determined by the conditions at any given place.  We had a couple of
not-high dipoles and one of those humongous LP arrays for the MARS
station.  ACS went down, our dipoles worked just fine.  That LP monster
is basically a poorly optimized 3 element yagi on any given frequency
and didn't work all that well.

Were I in the EMCOMM business and planning for a major widespread
disaster situation, I'd focus on the physical aspects of the antennas
... transportability, survivability, ease of deployment, weight, and the
like.  The rest will be what it will be, and it will likely be enough
... at least until better can be arranged.

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 4/30/2017 4:15 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> Right, an NVIS antenna is effectively a Yagi pointed at the sky. So put a reflector on the dirt.
>
> The Loma Prieta was a 6.9. The Cascadia area could produce a 9.0. Richter is a log10 scale, so that is 100X as strong.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>

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More likely is Elecraft Island will be all that remains of California.  
Oregon will have a brand new coast too; maybe all the way into Salem :)

      Kevin.  KD5ONS


On 4/30/2017 4:56 PM, Peter LaBissoniere wrote:

> I better order a K3S quick as Elecraft will be toast.
>
> Peter LaBissoniere
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I was at work during the Loma Prieta earthquake. Our HP building (now a Tesla building) on Deer Creek Road had hydrogen piping and “HF Waste” piping. That was fine, but a 4” main in the sprinkler system broke, soaking lab notebooks. I remember planning a route home to Mountain View that did not go under or over any bridges. I still had to deal with a water main break.
>>
>> And then there was Hurricane Betsy when I was growing up in Baton Rouge. No phone for 7 days and no power for 10 days. The toppled red oak in the back yard was the best tree fort ever.
>>
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>
>>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 3:26 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>
>>> When we get that 9.0 quake many of my local roads will go away. The gravel logging roads carved into the side of the mountain will collapse.  They regularly do so during our torrential rain season.  A quake will just make it worse.  Plus the number of trees I'll have to cut between here and my mailbox will take at least a 5 gallon container of fuel.  Luckily the CB radios will still work so I can get the local loggers to carve me out.
>>>
>>> However, at that point I'll have to worry about all the bridges between here and there.  Only the smallest ones will have a chance of remaining passable.  I have charged deep cycle marine batteries and reels of spare antenna wire.  As long as I have a roof over my head I'll be able to communicate.  Even then I do have a tent to live in until civilization rights itself again.  The local grouse, rabbit, and deer population may take a hit though :)
>>>
>>>    GL in the big one,
>>>
>>>         Kevin.  KD5ONS
>>>
>>> On 4/30/2017 2:43 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>>>> The potential Cascadia earthquake could be 9.0. That means that every tower will fall, maybe even those built like this CHP/CalOES tower.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/ <http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/>
>>>>
>>>> That is why I suggested easily erected wire antennas and small beams, like a 10m Moxon. After the big one, it will be Field Day, not “flip the switch on the linear”.
>>>>
>>>> Regular practice with field antennas will be more useful preparation than a big antenna farm. Maybe some regular exercises with a Par EndFedZ antenna, or even SOTA activations.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/ <http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/>
>>>>
>>>> More info on the potential Cascadia earthquake.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one <http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one>
>>>>
>>>> wunder
>>>> K6WRU
>>>> Walter Underwood
>>>> CM87wj
>>>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into trees or even an old fence line.
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Bill Frantz        | I don't have high-speed      | Periwinkle
>>>>> [phone]      | internet. I have DSL.        | 16345 Englewood Ave
>>>>> www.pwpconsult.com |                              | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>> ______________________________________________________________
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One item which rarely makes it onto the ECOM check lists is fitness.  
How many folks are prepared to actually do all the work necessary after
a major disaster.  The majority of folks would not be able to walk to
the nearest shelter let alone help others.  We, as a nation, are
woefully under-prepared for disasters.  The ECOM folks talk about it,
plan for it, but don't train the public to be in better shape to handle
any given disaster.  While I have taught many ECOM classes I am never
allowed to say more than a few words about fitness.  I do it for rehab
but it has helped me stay safe in the various unsafe times I have had up
here in the wilderness.

     73 & GL,

         Kevin.  KD5ONS


On 4/30/2017 5:05 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> The 1964 Alaska earthquake was a 9.2 centered SSE of Anchorage.  I was
> at Galena AFS at the time, on the Yukon River in the northern interior
> just south of the Arctic Circle. It's fairly flat up there and after
> we realized there was an earthquake, we could watch to the south and
> it appeared that there were ground waves moving rapidly toward us.  It
> ultimately broke off the wooden flag pole in front of the chow hall.
>
> The WW2-era wooden hanger and control tower survived just fine, some
> bookcases toppled and spilled coffee was about all that happened.  The
> reinforced concrete alert hangars ... not so well. Much of the damage
> in Anchorage was the result of liquification of the ancient stream bed
> beneath it.
>
> The effects of any given magnitude earthquake are almost completely
> determined by the conditions at any given place.  We had a couple of
> not-high dipoles and one of those humongous LP arrays for the MARS
> station.  ACS went down, our dipoles worked just fine.  That LP
> monster is basically a poorly optimized 3 element yagi on any given
> frequency and didn't work all that well.
>
> Were I in the EMCOMM business and planning for a major widespread
> disaster situation, I'd focus on the physical aspects of the antennas
> ... transportability, survivability, ease of deployment, weight, and
> the like.  The rest will be what it will be, and it will likely be
> enough ... at least until better can be arranged.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
> Sparks NV USA
> Washoe County DM09dn
>
> On 4/30/2017 4:15 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> Right, an NVIS antenna is effectively a Yagi pointed at the sky. So
>> put a reflector on the dirt.
>>
>> The Loma Prieta was a 6.9. The Cascadia area could produce a 9.0.
>> Richter is a log10 scale, so that is 100X as strong.
>>
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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[KG7FYI]

Yep, most excellent attribute. Our club does annual field trips just for
that purpose. To be honest I was shocked what a long wire could do with
the right equipment. I'll the first to admit I'm just getting my legs.
That said, radio is a fantastic tool for my needs. I've never done it as
a hobby and always have had it as a community help tool or basic
communication tool. I lived off the grid up in Montana for a decade and
found radio a great way to keep sane. I had an old Kenwood TS-140s back
then and spent a lot of time listening. I didn't have a license so never
TX but I would have if I had to. I'm not an anarchist and totally
respect the rules but life and limb take precedent over the rules in my
world. I'm not even tempted to do anything but get stick to the plan.
Maybe its my old Vietnam days but every option should be available. My
mind set is such that I'm putting guy wires up on my free standing
antenna. It can't hurt can it? Thanks for making contact Bill.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
~~~~  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><((((º>



On 04/30/2017 01:23 PM, Bill Frantz [via Elecraft] wrote:
> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes.
> Being able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute
> for any emergency plan.

[KG7FYI]

Thanks Clay. I'm willing to eat humble pie any time it is appropriate.
No problem there. Being called lazy when I know otherwise is not one of
those times. I do better getting help from people that are polite and
trying to understand where I am coming from. That isn't what's happening
here. How did you expect me to respond. I am willing to learn.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
~~~~  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><((((º>


On 04/30/2017 02:56 PM, Clay Autery [via Elecraft] wrote:
> Clay Autery, KY5G

[Phil Kane-2]

On 4/30/2017 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:

> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able
> to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.

Radio Station KGO(AM)  in San Francisco has its transmitting plant
(directional array with three self-supporting towers) not too far off
the San Andreas Fault that shook in the 1989 Loma Prieta Earthquake.
The top section of one of the towers folded down upon itself - and those
were big strong towers.  The entire array was rebuilt.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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[KG7FYI]

I agree Kevin. The one advantage here in rural Oregon is that there's a
modicum of adaptability in peoples lives that helps them get buy. We are
out of power, phone and satellite internet frequently in the winter. It
sounds very much like your situation in "Coho" country.

BTW, I've spent the better part of the last 12 years doing coho habitat
restoration projects here in the boonies. Our run this year was down to
three adults coming back in our watershed.

Thanks for the feedback.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
~~~~  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><((((º>


On 04/30/2017 05:41 PM, [hidden email] [via Elecraft] wrote:

> One item which rarely makes it onto the ECOM check lists is fitness.
> How many folks are prepared to actually do all the work necessary after
> a major disaster.  The majority of folks would not be able to walk to
> the nearest shelter let alone help others.  We, as a nation, are
> woefully under-prepared for disasters.  The ECOM folks talk about it,
> plan for it, but don't train the public to be in better shape to handle
> any given disaster.  While I have taught many ECOM classes I am never
> allowed to say more than a few words about fitness.  I do it for rehab
> but it has helped me stay safe in the various unsafe times I have had up
> here in the wilderness.
>
>      73 & GL,
>
>          Kevin.  KD5ONS

[KG7FYI]

We're at 160% or normal precipitation this year in the Cascades. The
ground everywhere is Jello. That said, the models are saying our area
will be to the equivalent to 7.0+ if the subduction zones goes off as
predicted.
Winter before last there were several million board feet of large
Douglas Fur that blocked all of the roads for days as a result of a snow
storm.
You nailed it regarding the bridges. We have steep canyons, granitic and
serpentine geological conditions and too many bridges. I'd like to say
that radio is a hobby but the fact is that my only motive was that lives
are at stake.  I'm learning.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
~~~~  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><((((º>


On 04/30/2017 03:28 PM, [hidden email] [via Elecraft] wrote:

> When we get that 9.0 quake many of my local roads will go away. The
> gravel logging roads carved into the side of the mountain will
> collapse.  They regularly do so during our torrential rain season.  A
> quake will just make it worse.  Plus the number of trees I'll have to
> cut between here and my mailbox will take at least a 5 gallon container
> of fuel.  Luckily the CB radios will still work so I can get the local
> loggers to carve me out.
>
> However, at that point I'll have to worry about all the bridges between
> here and there.  Only the smallest ones will have a chance of remaining
> passable.  I have charged deep cycle marine batteries and reels of spare
> antenna wire.  As long as I have a roof over my head I'll be able to
> communicate.  Even then I do have a tent to live in until civilization
> rights itself again.  The local grouse, rabbit, and deer population may
> take a hit though :)
>
>      GL in the big one,
>
>           Kevin.  KD5ONS

[KG7FYI]

The models DOGAMI (Oregon Dept. of Geology and Mining) has released
shows a 71 foot tsunami if the quake is 9+. I'm glad I am out of the
coast range and in the Cascades.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
~~~~  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><((((º>


On 04/30/2017 05:35 PM, [hidden email] [via Elecraft] wrote:
> More likely is Elecraft Island will be all that remains of California.
> Oregon will have a brand new coast too; maybe all the way into Salem :)
>
>       Kevin.  KD5ONS