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K3 eHam review after 2+ years

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Don Rasmussen

K3 eHam review after 2+ years

http://www.eham.net/reviews/review/81985
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HowardZ

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

Well, I see the elecraft K3 as still a work in progress.

No, I am not referring to the firmware/software mods.

I am referring to continuing hardware mods.
The latest is the audio filter to make SSB audio actually sound good - like a good radio sounds.

It was very nice of you all to buy the radios before everything worked right,
and provide feedback to Elecraft,
and test the hardware and software improvements,
and open your multi-thousand dollar radios and stick your soldering iron in there....

but that's not for me.
I want to buy a factory built radio - and be happy and done with it.

Now, some things just don't make any sense whatsoever to me - but must to others.
Why in world will someone pay so much money for 10watt 2meter in their elecraft, when
they can buy a 50 watt 2m/70cm radio with more power, can be used for MARS, and maybe even a built-in TNC for around the same amount? I don't know - maybe someone wants to do weak signal
SSB on 2m? Well with 10 watts you'll also be providing weak signals for others to enjoy - hihi.

I would never buy a new ICOM model in the first year - because usually there are some hardware bugs found during the first year. How many years should one wait for Elecraft? I'm not sure.

Then there is the K3's transmitter. ARRL test reviews shows it on par with the old 746pro's transmitter. The Flex 5000's "new redesigned transmitter" scores top of the class in ARRL testing. Leaps and bounds better than the K3's transmitter. I bet Elecraft may soon be redesigning its transmitter to meet or even 1-up Flex's transmitter. Why not have the best cleanest transmitter to go along with the best receiver?

Maybe I should wait for 2 years of no further hardware modifications - then I'll know Elecraft finally finished the radio's hardware. I just don't have the self-confidence to go hardware-modding such an expensive radio.

So, you are enjoying the world's best receiver now....and I'll enjoy it a few years from now.

Yes, I can think this and not write it.
But then you went and wrote how Elecraft has finished the radio.

No hard feelings.
Howard

Phil LaMarche-2

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

I'll be waiting to see the responses to this email. I think all of us
understood that the K3 was a work in process and that's part of the fun.
Certainly not like rice radio's that have to be sent back to the factory for
updates. I'm proud and pleased with my K3. I did get one already assembled
but that's because I'm age 70. I love the radio and will be sending it back
in August for the 144 module and any other changes availiable at that time.
160-144. I am pleased to have that capability in one radio that is one of
the best availiable. Working 6 over the past 4 weeks and having a ball. I
respect Howard's opinions and that's what great about our country.
Different personalities, different ideas. All open to accept or reject.
Thank you Elecraft for being part of my 60 year experience in ham radio.

Happy 4th.

Phil

Philip LaMarche
LaMarche Enterprises, Inc.
www.instantgourmetspices.com

www.w9dvm.com
800-395-7795 pin 02
727-944-3226
FAX 727-937-8834
NASFT 30210

K3 #1605

CCA 98 00827
CRA 1701

W9DVM

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of HowardZ
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 3:45 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 eHam review after 2+ years

Well, I see the elecraft K3 as still a work in progress.

No, I am not referring to the firmware/software mods.

I am referring to continuing hardware mods.
The latest is the audio filter to make SSB audio actually sound good - like
a good radio sounds.

It was very nice of you all to buy the radios before everything worked
right, and provide feedback to Elecraft, and test the hardware and software
improvements, and open your multi-thousand dollar radios and stick your
soldering iron in there....

but that's not for me.
I want to buy a factory built radio - and be happy and done with it.

Now, some things just don't make any sense whatsoever to me - but must to
others.
Why in world will someone pay so much money for 10watt 2meter in their
elecraft, when they can buy a 50 watt 2m/70cm radio with more power, can be
used for MARS, and maybe even a built-in TNC for around the same amount? I
don't know - maybe someone wants to do weak signal SSB on 2m? Well with 10
watts you'll also be providing weak signals for others to enjoy - hihi.

I would never buy a new ICOM model in the first year - because usually there
are some hardware bugs found during the first year. How many years should
one wait for Elecraft? I'm not sure.

Then there is the K3's transmitter. ARRL test reviews shows it on par with
the old 746pro's transmitter. The Flex 5000's "new redesigned transmitter"
scores top of the class in ARRL testing. Leaps and bounds better than the
K3's transmitter. I bet Elecraft may soon be redesigning its transmitter
to meet or even 1-up Flex's transmitter. Why not have the best cleanest
transmitter to go along with the best receiver?

Maybe I should wait for 2 years of no further hardware modifications - then
I'll know Elecraft finally finished the radio's hardware. I just don't have
the self-confidence to go hardware-modding such an expensive radio.

So, you are enjoying the world's best receiver now....and I'll enjoy it a
few years from now.

Yes, I can think this and not write it.
But then you went and wrote how Elecraft has finished the radio.

No hard feelings.
Howard
--
View this message in context:
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-eHam-review-after-2%2B-years-tp3202931p3206781.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Don Ehrlich

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by HowardZ

Howard writes thoughtfully and I like his style. His comments are well
thought out and cleverly put and I welcome them. Thank you Howard. The
early K3 was not your cup of tea but it is exactly what I wanted .. we all
have different needs. So, what else is new?

I have had my K3 #195 for 18 months now and I am simply delighted. It was
perfect for *me*.

Don K7FJ

>
> Well, I see the elecraft K3 as still a work in progress.
>
> No, I am not referring to the firmware/software mods.
>
> I am referring to continuing hardware mods.
> The latest is the audio filter to make SSB audio actually sound good -
> like
> a good radio sounds.
>
> It was very nice of you all to buy the radios before everything worked
> right,
> and provide feedback to Elecraft,
> and test the hardware and software improvements,
> and open your multi-thousand dollar radios and stick your soldering iron
> in
> there....
>
> but that's not for me.
> I want to buy a factory built radio - and be happy and done with it.
>
> Now, some things just don't make any sense whatsoever to me - but must to
> others.
> Why in world will someone pay so much money for 10watt 2meter in their
> elecraft, when
> they can buy a 50 watt 2m/70cm radio with more power, can be used for
> MARS,
> and maybe even a built-in TNC for around the same amount? I don't know -
> maybe someone wants to do weak signal
> SSB on 2m? Well with 10 watts you'll also be providing weak signals for
> others to enjoy - hihi.
>
> I would never buy a new ICOM model in the first year - because usually
> there
> are some hardware bugs found during the first year. How many years should
> one wait for Elecraft? I'm not sure.
>
> Then there is the K3's transmitter. ARRL test reviews shows it on par
> with
> the old 746pro's transmitter. The Flex 5000's "new redesigned
> transmitter"
> scores top of the class in ARRL testing. Leaps and bounds better than the
> K3's transmitter. I bet Elecraft may soon be redesigning its transmitter
> to meet or even 1-up Flex's transmitter. Why not have the best cleanest
> transmitter to go along with the best receiver?
>
> Maybe I should wait for 2 years of no further hardware modifications -
> then
> I'll know Elecraft finally finished the radio's hardware. I just don't
> have
> the self-confidence to go hardware-modding such an expensive radio.
>
> So, you are enjoying the world's best receiver now....and I'll enjoy it a
> few years from now.
>
> Yes, I can think this and not write it.
> But then you went and wrote how Elecraft has finished the radio.
>
> No hard feelings.
> Howard

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Brett Howard

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by HowardZ

Last I heard I think Elecraft will even sell new boards at near cost if
you want to follow the upgrade path. That is if you're willing to send
back the previous board. They may even do that if you screw up an
upgrade with a soldering iron but if you're not confident then meh... no
point in doing it.. I think that its fun to go in and perform the
upgrades and that way I know what each of them are and what they do.
Makes the radio that much more mine!

~Brett

On Sat, 2009-07-04 at 12:44 -0700, HowardZ wrote:

> Well, I see the elecraft K3 as still a work in progress.
>
> No, I am not referring to the firmware/software mods.
>
> I am referring to continuing hardware mods.
> The latest is the audio filter to make SSB audio actually sound good - like
> a good radio sounds.
>
> It was very nice of you all to buy the radios before everything worked
> right,
> and provide feedback to Elecraft,
> and test the hardware and software improvements,
> and open your multi-thousand dollar radios and stick your soldering iron in
> there....
>
> but that's not for me.
> I want to buy a factory built radio - and be happy and done with it.
>
> Now, some things just don't make any sense whatsoever to me - but must to
> others.
> Why in world will someone pay so much money for 10watt 2meter in their
> elecraft, when
> they can buy a 50 watt 2m/70cm radio with more power, can be used for MARS,
> and maybe even a built-in TNC for around the same amount? I don't know -
> maybe someone wants to do weak signal
> SSB on 2m? Well with 10 watts you'll also be providing weak signals for
> others to enjoy - hihi.
>
> I would never buy a new ICOM model in the first year - because usually there
> are some hardware bugs found during the first year. How many years should
> one wait for Elecraft? I'm not sure.
>
> Then there is the K3's transmitter. ARRL test reviews shows it on par with
> the old 746pro's transmitter. The Flex 5000's "new redesigned transmitter"
> scores top of the class in ARRL testing. Leaps and bounds better than the
> K3's transmitter. I bet Elecraft may soon be redesigning its transmitter
> to meet or even 1-up Flex's transmitter. Why not have the best cleanest
> transmitter to go along with the best receiver?
>
> Maybe I should wait for 2 years of no further hardware modifications - then
> I'll know Elecraft finally finished the radio's hardware. I just don't have
> the self-confidence to go hardware-modding such an expensive radio.
>
> So, you are enjoying the world's best receiver now....and I'll enjoy it a
> few years from now.
>
> Yes, I can think this and not write it.
> But then you went and wrote how Elecraft has finished the radio.
>
> No hard feelings.
> Howard

MontyS

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by HowardZ

If anyone is interested in Howard Z., he has a website at www.howardz.com..
It does not mention amateur radio among his interests. He is a laid-off
software guy.

Monty K2DLJ

> Well, I see the elecraft K3 as still a work in progress.
>
\> Howard

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AC7AC

K3 Audio (WAS K3 eHam review after 2+ years)

In reply to this post by Don Ehrlich

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by HowardZ

It is with some reluctance that I write this Howard, but because I do not
own a K3, I thought that you might be interested in an opinion that cannot
be thought of being biased in response to some of your comments, which I
respect.

As someone who has been involved with the hardware design of high
performance comms equipment for the military and others, I can assure you
that some form of work in progress is the norm in this branch of
engineering. If you take a good look at the design of commercial receivers
designed for the amateur market, you will find more often than not that the
design of this year's model sold by company X is a version of their last
year's model with a few modifications, along with some cosmetic changes to
the box and / or front panel - be it a new bandscope or whatever - which is
expensive for buyers who want the latest version.

Where Elecraft have got it right with the K3 I believe, is that they
released a radio which performed well, then improved it and are continuing
to improve it without having to release a new model. The people who benefit
from this are, of course, the owners of the K3 who don't have to buy a new
K3 MK II next year with some improvements incorporated, and later on a K3
MKIII with further improvements, ad nauseum.

I do not believe that neither an amateur nor a non-amateur rig exists which
cannot be improved upon.

The K3 when released performed well with a a few bugs I understand. I
believe that during my 50+ years association with the comms industry and
comms equipment Users, I have very seldom seen equipment released that was
100% bug free, and feedback from Users and customers is vital. It is rare to
get a response from the Principals of a manufacturing company as is
frequently offered by Elecraft's Principals. Without going through all of
the customer feedback regarding the K3 that has been posted on the Elecraft
Reflector, I suspect that there have been far fewer postings concerning bugs
than suggestions for improvement, or help to other owners of the K3.

I cannot make comment on the ARRLs K3 transmitter tests without verifying
the test results.

I have no financial interest in Elecraft.

Regards,

Geoff
GM4ESD

----- Original Message -----
From: "HowardZ" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 eHam review after 2+ years

Eric Tichansky

Re: K3 Audio (WAS K3 eHam review after 2+ years)

In reply to this post by AC7AC

Unfortunately, there IS a problem w/ CW audio in the K3, at least with
both here (see concurrently running thread: K3 Audio Low Pass Filter).
The sidetones generated around the 12 kHz DAC leak-through (+/- sidetone
frq., ie. 500Hz)are clearly audible for me and rather annoying, enough
so that I had to insert inline low pass audio filters on each radio to
knock it down to make CW operation tolerable. I was in correspondence
about the issue back in Oct/Nov of last year w/ Elecraft.

Regardless of the "60 db down" and other levels people have measured on
those sidetones, I can hear it, even with as low a volume setting of
around 9-10 o'clock. Apparently there are others that can as well. The
majority of folks who own a K3, presumably yourself included, have a
reduction or loss of hearing at high frequencies. From that
perspective, the audio is great! However, not hearing it doesn't
necessarily mean there isn't an underlying problem present, and those
that wish to fix it aren't doing so out of "desire to tinker and change
things."

As for SSB/AM, I couldn't comment at length on the audio quality, as I
just don't operate or listen up the bands much. But from limited
operation, I'd concur that the audio was fine.

73
Eric NO3M

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> I'm quite happy with the K3's audio as originally designed.
>
> Other Hams who have heard my K3 and, non Hams too, think it's great. Tuning
> in an AM signal and switching between SSB and AM demod has an inaudible
> difference in the sound (using the same effective bandwidth).
>
> As a long-time brass pounder, I am very happy with the audio for CW too.
>
> That said, I understand and support other fellows' desire to tinker and
> change things. I do the same with those things that interest me. But that
> should never be interpreted as meaning the K3 has any sort of "audio
> problem" in the original design.
>
> Of course, future designs from Elecraft and others will offer features or
> specifications that exceed the K3's specifications today, just at some of
> the great rigs of years ago can't match the spec.s of a K2 or K3.
>
> But that does not make those rigs any less a joy to use for a great many
> Hams.
>
> 73,
>
> Ron AC7AC
>

Brett Howard

Re: K3 Audio (WAS K3 eHam review after 2+ years)

A fix for this issue is in the works and I think you'll be quite happy
with it!

~Brett

On Sat, 2009-07-04 at 22:45 -0400, E. Tichansky wrote:

> Unfortunately, there IS a problem w/ CW audio in the K3, at least with
> both here (see concurrently running thread: K3 Audio Low Pass Filter).
> The sidetones generated around the 12 kHz DAC leak-through (+/- sidetone
> frq., ie. 500Hz)are clearly audible for me and rather annoying, enough
> so that I had to insert inline low pass audio filters on each radio to
> knock it down to make CW operation tolerable. I was in correspondence
> about the issue back in Oct/Nov of last year w/ Elecraft.
>
> Regardless of the "60 db down" and other levels people have measured on
> those sidetones, I can hear it, even with as low a volume setting of
> around 9-10 o'clock. Apparently there are others that can as well. The
> majority of folks who own a K3, presumably yourself included, have a
> reduction or loss of hearing at high frequencies. From that
> perspective, the audio is great! However, not hearing it doesn't
> necessarily mean there isn't an underlying problem present, and those
> that wish to fix it aren't doing so out of "desire to tinker and change
> things."
>
> As for SSB/AM, I couldn't comment at length on the audio quality, as I
> just don't operate or listen up the bands much. But from limited
> operation, I'd concur that the audio was fine.
>
> 73
> Eric NO3M
>
> Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> > I'm quite happy with the K3's audio as originally designed.
> >
> > Other Hams who have heard my K3 and, non Hams too, think it's great. Tuning
> > in an AM signal and switching between SSB and AM demod has an inaudible
> > difference in the sound (using the same effective bandwidth).
> >
> > As a long-time brass pounder, I am very happy with the audio for CW too.
> >
> > That said, I understand and support other fellows' desire to tinker and
> > change things. I do the same with those things that interest me. But that
> > should never be interpreted as meaning the K3 has any sort of "audio
> > problem" in the original design.
> >
> > Of course, future designs from Elecraft and others will offer features or
> > specifications that exceed the K3's specifications today, just at some of
> > the great rigs of years ago can't match the spec.s of a K2 or K3.
> >
> > But that does not make those rigs any less a joy to use for a great many
> > Hams.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Ron AC7AC
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

David Gilbert

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by HowardZ

I'm honestly curious, Howard ... which rig (brand and model number) would you buy at this moment in time that you consider to be stable and perform better overall in its price range than the current version of the K3?

73,
Dave AB7E

------Original Mail------
From: "HowardZ" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:44:48 -0700 PDT
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 eHam review after 2+ years

Well, I see the elecraft K3 as still a work in progress.

No, I am not referring to the firmware/software mods.

I am referring to continuing hardware mods.
The latest is the audio filter to make SSB audio actually sound good - like
a good radio sounds.

It was very nice of you all to buy the radios before everything worked
right,
and provide feedback to Elecraft,
and test the hardware and software improvements,
and open your multi-thousand dollar radios and stick your soldering iron in
there....

but that's not for me.
I want to buy a factory built radio - and be happy and done with it.

Now, some things just don't make any sense whatsoever to me - but must to
others.
Why in world will someone pay so much money for 10watt 2meter in their
elecraft, when
they can buy a 50 watt 2m/70cm radio with more power, can be used for MARS,
and maybe even a built-in TNC for around the same amount? I don't know -
maybe someone wants to do weak signal
SSB on 2m? Well with 10 watts you'll also be providing weak signals for
others to enjoy - hihi.

I would never buy a new ICOM model in the first year - because usually there
are some hardware bugs found during the first year. How many years should
one wait for Elecraft? I'm not sure.

Then there is the K3's transmitter. ARRL test reviews shows it on par with
the old 746pro's transmitter. The Flex 5000's "new redesigned transmitter"
scores top of the class in ARRL testing. Leaps and bounds better than the
K3's transmitter. I bet Elecraft may soon be redesigning its transmitter
to meet or even 1-up Flex's transmitter. Why not have the best cleanest
transmitter to go along with the best receiver?

Maybe I should wait for 2 years of no further hardware modifications - then
I'll know Elecraft finally finished the radio's hardware. I just don't have
the self-confidence to go hardware-modding such an expensive radio.

So, you are enjoying the world's best receiver now....and I'll enjoy it a
few years from now.

Yes, I can think this and not write it.
But then you went and wrote how Elecraft has finished the radio.

No hard feelings.
Howard
--
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-eHam-review-after-2%2B-years-tp3202931p3206781.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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HowardZ

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by Don Ehrlich

Don Ehrlich wrote

Howard writes thoughtfully and I like his style. His comments are well
thought out and cleverly put and I welcome them. Thank you Howard. The
early K3 was not your cup of tea but it is exactly what I wanted .. we all
have different needs. So, what else is new?

I have had my K3 #195 for 18 months now and I am simply delighted. It was
perfect for *me*.

Don K7FJ

>
> Well, I see the elecraft K3 as still a work in progress.
>
> No, I am not referring to the firmware/software mods.
>
> I am referring to continuing hardware mods.
> The latest is the audio filter to make SSB audio actually sound good -
> like
> a good radio sounds.
>
> It was very nice of you all to buy the radios before everything worked
> right,
> and provide feedback to Elecraft,
> and test the hardware and software improvements,
> and open your multi-thousand dollar radios and stick your soldering iron
> in
> there....
>
> but that's not for me.
> I want to buy a factory built radio - and be happy and done with it.
>
> Now, some things just don't make any sense whatsoever to me - but must to
> others.
> Why in world will someone pay so much money for 10watt 2meter in their
> elecraft, when
> they can buy a 50 watt 2m/70cm radio with more power, can be used for
> MARS,
> and maybe even a built-in TNC for around the same amount? I don't know -
> maybe someone wants to do weak signal
> SSB on 2m? Well with 10 watts you'll also be providing weak signals for
> others to enjoy - hihi.
>
> I would never buy a new ICOM model in the first year - because usually
> there
> are some hardware bugs found during the first year. How many years should
> one wait for Elecraft? I'm not sure.
>
> Then there is the K3's transmitter. ARRL test reviews shows it on par
> with
> the old 746pro's transmitter. The Flex 5000's "new redesigned
> transmitter"
> scores top of the class in ARRL testing. Leaps and bounds better than the
> K3's transmitter. I bet Elecraft may soon be redesigning its transmitter
> to meet or even 1-up Flex's transmitter. Why not have the best cleanest
> transmitter to go along with the best receiver?
>
> Maybe I should wait for 2 years of no further hardware modifications -
> then
> I'll know Elecraft finally finished the radio's hardware. I just don't
> have
> the self-confidence to go hardware-modding such an expensive radio.
>
> So, you are enjoying the world's best receiver now....and I'll enjoy it a
> few years from now.
>
> Yes, I can think this and not write it.
> But then you went and wrote how Elecraft has finished the radio.
>
> No hard feelings.
> Howard

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Elecraft mailing list
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w7aqk

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by HowardZ

Howard,

Man, are you a dreamer! Not even the $10k radios come off the line in the
condition you say is your expectation! Remember, some of the mods to the K3
have been "fixes" admittedly, but most of them have been more like upgrades.
I have an Orion II that I've had for a couple of years more than I've had my
K3, and they are just now getting around to de-bugging a few of the software
issues. Most of the hardware issues are untouched! The IC-7800 required a
"return it to the factory" mod to fix some of the glitches it had. The
IC-7700 has probably been less troublesome, but that's significantly due to
what Icom learned (and corrected) from the 7800. The Yaesu FTD 9000 was a
disaster when it was released!

The best radios for having few issues are those that are actually ugrade
models. One of the best examples is Icom 706 Mark II G. Both the original
version, and the Mark II version, had loads of "pimples" in their design.
It only took 4 or 5 years to finally get a version that was relatively
sound.

The K3 had some warts when it first came out, but most of those were quickly
addressed, and did not require a "return to sender" process. More
importantly, the fixes were easily accomplished with simple part value
corrections/additions.

I'm not unsympathetic with your frustration, but I think anyone who expects
a radio to be both feature rich and error free is being a bit unrealistic.
I would also suggest that the "error rate" the K3 is overly transparent,
compared to other radios, primarily due to this reflector and the
interchange with the company itself. Here all the problems tend to be laid
out for all to see, but instead of "talking to the wall" you get to talk to,
and get effective resolution from, factory personnel. For the most part, as
soon as an issue appears to be more than just an isolated problem, Elecraft
tackles the problem. Other manufacturers, like Yaesu and Icom, silently
wait for the complaints to reach almost a deafening level, then they just as
silently make production changes, and the only way you have a prayer of
avoiding the problem is to acquire a late serial number. If you monitor the
reflectors for many of the other current radios, I think you might see what
I am talking about.

Again, I'm not criticizing your frustration level, but I think you would be
a lot happier with a radio that is a lot further along in its life cycle.
By the way, the K3 is not really quite 2 years old yet--at least not by my
calculations. I have #96, and I didn't get mine until November of 2007. I'd
say it's still in its infancy. But I can make mine play just like the one
coming off the line tomorrow, and that's without having to send it back to
Aptos.

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "HowardZ" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 eHam review after 2+ years

MontyS

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by Don Ehrlich

Howard,

Methinks you may be confusing concepts in your thinking. Something may be
complete and 100% functional and still be improved upon, may it not? Users
will dream of new features and improvements to existing features.

As a software engineer that idea surely is not foreign to you. The only
thing Elecraft has not done is low-ball the initial price to "hook" us and
then charge exhorbitantly for the new features/ updates - a rampant software
practice.

That some of the improvements to the K3 may involve opening it up and
applying a soldering iron makes the K3 more appealing to some of us - I
understand, not to you. Those who wish can send their K3s back to Elecraft
for the updates.

In this realm anything finished is dead. It means no further
improvements/capabilities can be added. Who else would want that radio?

Monty K2DLJ K3 s/n 699

> But alas - I don't feel the radio is finished - hardware wise.
> Icom, Flex, Elecraft - they all have downloadable firmware/software -
> I'm not afraid of new software releases.
> Hardware mods - yep - I don't want to deal with them.
>
> And I only brought it up because the first poster showed us his eham
> review,
> which seemed to be stating that the K3 is done/perfected/100%.
>

______________________________________________________________
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Brett Howard

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by HowardZ

I think with the K3 as is you'd be quite impressed with it. Its a great
radio and its always getting better with software updates which require
no soldering or screwdrivers. I think that honestly most of the updates
that require the use of a soldering iron are things that black box
operators wouldn't notice anyway.

Also I'd be willing to bet for a small fee one could ship their K3 back
to Elecraft and have it updated as time goes forward. Not sure how
small this fee would be but I'd bet its cheaper and less of a hassle
than buying a IC-756ProIII and selling your ProII to someone.

The fact that more and more options keep coming out for it in my opinion
are what make it more exciting to me. Granted I'm one who enjoys
melting solder inside but the additions that one can add w/o melting
solder are quite fun as well. The additional 2M option (while I think
its a tad expensive (esp if you have to pay for our XVRTR interface
again)) is a great addition. I doubt I'll want to pay that much for it
but I can see how it would be really nice to have the ability to do all
your 2M repeater work and what not all in one box on the desk.
Especially that you can put the repeaters into memories with *'s next
tot them and do repeater scanning and what not if one wanted.

I dunno I really like that the radio as you get it isn't done and will
continue to get better. Thats not to say that there is anything wrong
with it as its better in many respects than other radios on the market.
But, still yet the future is even brighter.

I'm in the same boat when it comes to the purchase of a new laptop. The
only difference is at the moment I have a fairly good laptop. (when I
bought the K3 I was only borrowing a rig from my father so I owned
nothing). But as I wait and wait and wait for the next laptop they keep
making another one that is slightly lighter than the previous model with
better battery life. Then they release that same model with the same
battery life and weight but better performance. Over and over the cycle
repeats. No matter how long I wait right after I buy something there
*WILL* be something better.

I see the K3 as a nice option in that a user can get into it now and not
worry about the future. I also really have to hand it to Elecraft in
that if you're not one that has enough money to do it all in one shot
then you don't have to. Simply buy the 10W rig to start with and then
when you finally have enough money to upgrade to the 100W model then do
so. Then when you finally feel the need for an ATU and have the funds
then go ahead and add that. Or maybe flexibility is more important to
you and you get the ATU before the PA. How cool is it that you can
build the thing tailored to suit your needs?

Hum oh well. I really like being included in the advancement of the
radio. I think honestly if most users were to buy this radio and quit
reading the reflector they'd never feel the need or want to upgrade it.
But I thank all of the users who do read here and tinker and play with
the radio as thats one of the funner parts of the hobby for myself.

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Sat, 2009-07-04 at 23:29 -0700, HowardZ wrote:

> Ah Don,
>
> You are so kind. I expected to be labeled a troll.
>
> Monte, yes, I got hid hard by the IT recession - and never recovered - and
> now we have another recession. I work at under half my last IT salary -
> managing/leading squads of TSA screeners - making
> sure they do their jobs by the book - to keep our country safe. I do not
> expect to ever get
> another IT job.
>
> I do save my pennies and like to buy quality equipment.
> I have a Palstar auto-tuner - it's the best!
> It can be computer controlled, but nobody wrote any software for it.
> So I wrote a Java program to control it - it's available from the Palstar AT
> AUTO yahoo group.
> Java is easy, but all that reusable code that comes with it - took a bit of
> reading/research.
>
> I saved my pennies and purchased the SGC 500 amplifier.
> It really has great self protection, has auto band switching, and operates
> on 12 to 14 volts.
>
> I deal with S5 to S9 noise every day on Mars nets.
> They don't go find a quieter frequency - they just deal with it.
> I'm close to having saved enough for a better radio.
> I don't like the Flex approach - favoring the Elecraft design.
>
> But alas - I don't feel the radio is finished - hardware wise.
> Icom, Flex, Elecraft - they all have downloadable firmware/software -
> I'm not afraid of new software releases.
> Hardware mods - yep - I don't want to deal with them.
>
> And I only brought it up because the first poster showed us his eham review,
> which seemed to be stating that the K3 is done/perfected/100%.
>
> But I will wait a little longer.
>
> BTW, maybe I don't need a better radio?
> Maybe a MFJ 1026?
> Maybe a beverage antenna?
> Maybe if all the MARS members purchase a 500 watt transmitter?
> Nosie noise nosie...
>
> Howard
>
>
> Don Ehrlich wrote:
> >
> > Howard writes thoughtfully and I like his style. His comments are well
> > thought out and cleverly put and I welcome them. Thank you Howard. The
> > early K3 was not your cup of tea but it is exactly what I wanted .. we all
> > have different needs. So, what else is new?
> >
> > I have had my K3 #195 for 18 months now and I am simply delighted. It was
> > perfect for *me*.
> >
> > Don K7FJ
> >
> >>
> >> Well, I see the elecraft K3 as still a work in progress.
> >>
> >> No, I am not referring to the firmware/software mods.
> >>
> >> I am referring to continuing hardware mods.
> >> The latest is the audio filter to make SSB audio actually sound good -
> >> like
> >> a good radio sounds.
> >>
> >> It was very nice of you all to buy the radios before everything worked
> >> right,
> >> and provide feedback to Elecraft,
> >> and test the hardware and software improvements,
> >> and open your multi-thousand dollar radios and stick your soldering iron
> >> in
> >> there....
> >>
> >> but that's not for me.
> >> I want to buy a factory built radio - and be happy and done with it.
> >>
> >> Now, some things just don't make any sense whatsoever to me - but must to
> >> others.
> >> Why in world will someone pay so much money for 10watt 2meter in their
> >> elecraft, when
> >> they can buy a 50 watt 2m/70cm radio with more power, can be used for
> >> MARS,
> >> and maybe even a built-in TNC for around the same amount? I don't know -
> >> maybe someone wants to do weak signal
> >> SSB on 2m? Well with 10 watts you'll also be providing weak signals for
> >> others to enjoy - hihi.
> >>
> >> I would never buy a new ICOM model in the first year - because usually
> >> there
> >> are some hardware bugs found during the first year. How many years
> >> should
> >> one wait for Elecraft? I'm not sure.
> >>
> >> Then there is the K3's transmitter. ARRL test reviews shows it on par
> >> with
> >> the old 746pro's transmitter. The Flex 5000's "new redesigned
> >> transmitter"
> >> scores top of the class in ARRL testing. Leaps and bounds better than
> >> the
> >> K3's transmitter. I bet Elecraft may soon be redesigning its
> >> transmitter
> >> to meet or even 1-up Flex's transmitter. Why not have the best cleanest
> >> transmitter to go along with the best receiver?
> >>
> >> Maybe I should wait for 2 years of no further hardware modifications -
> >> then
> >> I'll know Elecraft finally finished the radio's hardware. I just don't
> >> have
> >> the self-confidence to go hardware-modding such an expensive radio.
> >>
> >> So, you are enjoying the world's best receiver now....and I'll enjoy it a
> >> few years from now.
> >>
> >> Yes, I can think this and not write it.
> >> But then you went and wrote how Elecraft has finished the radio.
> >>
> >> No hard feelings.
> >> Howard
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> >
>

HowardZ

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by Don Ehrlich

Ah Don,

You are so kind. I expected to be labeled a troll.

Monte, yes, I got hid hard by the IT recession - and never recovered - and
now we have another recession. I work at under half my last IT salary -
managing/leading squads of TSA screeners - making
sure they do their jobs by the book - to keep our country safe. I do not
expect to ever get
another IT job.

I do save my pennies and like to buy quality equipment.
I have a Palstar auto-tuner - it's the best!
It can be computer controlled, but nobody wrote any software for it.
So I wrote a Java program to control it - it's available from the Palstar AT
AUTO yahoo group.
Java is easy, but all that reusable code that comes with it - took a bit of
reading/research.

I saved my pennies and purchased the SGC 500 amplifier.
It really has great self protection, has auto band switching, and operates
on 12 to 14 volts.

I deal with S5 to S9 noise every day on Mars nets.
They don't go find a quieter frequency - they just deal with it.
I'm close to having saved enough for a better radio.
I don't like the Flex approach - favoring the Elecraft design.

But alas - I don't feel the radio is finished - hardware wise.
Icom, Flex, Elecraft - they all have downloadable firmware/software -
I'm not afraid of new software releases.
Hardware mods - yep - I don't want to deal with them.

And I only brought it up because the first poster showed us his eham review,
which seemed to be stating that the K3 is done/perfected/100%.

But I will wait a little longer.

BTW, maybe I don't need a better radio?
Maybe a MFJ 1026?
Maybe a beverage antenna?
Maybe if all the MARS members purchase a 500 watt transmitter?
Nosie noise nosie...

Howard

Howard writes thoughtfully and I like his style. His comments are well
thought out and cleverly put and I welcome them. Thank you Howard. The
early K3 was not your cup of tea but it is exactly what I wanted .. we all
have different needs. So, what else is new?

I have had my K3 #195 for 18 months now and I am simply delighted. It was
perfect for *me*.

Don K7FJ

--
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-eHam-review-after-2%2B-years-tp3202931p3208251.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Dave, G4AON

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by Don Rasmussen

Howard

In the 18 months since my K3 arrived, there have been a few hardware
mods... They are all relatively easy to implement, I can't say that any
of the hardware mods have made a huge difference, not even the hardware
AGC mod. The only one still in the pipeline (I think there's only one)
appears to be the audio low pass filter board, so you will soon be able
to order a K3 safe in the knowledge that it's pretty much there as
regards hardware!

BTW, I have an MFJ-1026 and they aren't much use against wideband "hash"
which plagues the lower bands in summer. It's not the fault of the MFJ
and similar units, it's the noise that doesn't radiate from a point
source. The noise reduction in the K3 is effective to some extent, but
it's not a substitute for a quiet location.

73 Dave, G4AON
K3/100 #80 (with all current hardware mods)
----------------------------------------------

HowardZ wrote:
<SNIP>
But alas - I don't feel the radio is finished - hardware wise.
Icom, Flex, Elecraft - they all have downloadable firmware/software -
I'm not afraid of new software releases.
Hardware mods - yep - I don't want to deal with them.
<SNIP>
Maybe a MFJ 1026?
Maybe a beverage antenna?
Maybe if all the MARS members purchase a 500 watt transmitter?
Nosie noise nosie...

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Carl Smithson

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by HowardZ

Howard, you gota remember this is the Elecraft list and you aren't allowed
to post anything negative. I see the same fanaticism on the Collins, Yaesu
and Icom lists.
Sonny

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of HowardZ
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 2:29 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 eHam review after 2+ years

Ah Don,

You are so kind. I expected to be labeled a troll.

Monte, yes, I got hid hard by the IT recession - and never recovered - and
now we have another recession. I work at under half my last IT salary -
managing/leading squads of TSA screeners - making
sure they do their jobs by the book - to keep our country safe. I do not
expect to ever get
another IT job.

I do save my pennies and like to buy quality equipment.
I have a Palstar auto-tuner - it's the best!
It can be computer controlled, but nobody wrote any software for it.
So I wrote a Java program to control it - it's available from the Palstar AT
AUTO yahoo group.
Java is easy, but all that reusable code that comes with it - took a bit of
reading/research.

I saved my pennies and purchased the SGC 500 amplifier.
It really has great self protection, has auto band switching, and operates
on 12 to 14 volts.

I deal with S5 to S9 noise every day on Mars nets.
They don't go find a quieter frequency - they just deal with it.
I'm close to having saved enough for a better radio.
I don't like the Flex approach - favoring the Elecraft design.

But alas - I don't feel the radio is finished - hardware wise.
Icom, Flex, Elecraft - they all have downloadable firmware/software -
I'm not afraid of new software releases.
Hardware mods - yep - I don't want to deal with them.

And I only brought it up because the first poster showed us his eham review,
which seemed to be stating that the K3 is done/perfected/100%.

But I will wait a little longer.

BTW, maybe I don't need a better radio?
Maybe a MFJ 1026?
Maybe a beverage antenna?
Maybe if all the MARS members purchase a 500 watt transmitter?
Nosie noise nosie...

Howard

Don Ehrlich wrote:
>
> Howard writes thoughtfully and I like his style. His comments are well
> thought out and cleverly put and I welcome them. Thank you Howard. The
> early K3 was not your cup of tea but it is exactly what I wanted .. we all

> have different needs. So, what else is new?
>
> I have had my K3 #195 for 18 months now and I am simply delighted. It was

> perfect for *me*.
>
> Don K7FJ
>
>>
>> Well, I see the elecraft K3 as still a work in progress.
>>
>> No, I am not referring to the firmware/software mods.
>>
>> I am referring to continuing hardware mods.
>> The latest is the audio filter to make SSB audio actually sound good -
>> like
>> a good radio sounds.
>>
>> It was very nice of you all to buy the radios before everything worked
>> right,
>> and provide feedback to Elecraft,
>> and test the hardware and software improvements,
>> and open your multi-thousand dollar radios and stick your soldering iron
>> in
>> there....
>>
>> but that's not for me.
>> I want to buy a factory built radio - and be happy and done with it.
>>
>> Now, some things just don't make any sense whatsoever to me - but must to
>> others.
>> Why in world will someone pay so much money for 10watt 2meter in their
>> elecraft, when
>> they can buy a 50 watt 2m/70cm radio with more power, can be used for
>> MARS,
>> and maybe even a built-in TNC for around the same amount? I don't know -
>> maybe someone wants to do weak signal
>> SSB on 2m? Well with 10 watts you'll also be providing weak signals for
>> others to enjoy - hihi.
>>
>> I would never buy a new ICOM model in the first year - because usually
>> there
>> are some hardware bugs found during the first year. How many years
>> should
>> one wait for Elecraft? I'm not sure.
>>
>> Then there is the K3's transmitter. ARRL test reviews shows it on par
>> with
>> the old 746pro's transmitter. The Flex 5000's "new redesigned
>> transmitter"
>> scores top of the class in ARRL testing. Leaps and bounds better than
>> the
>> K3's transmitter. I bet Elecraft may soon be redesigning its
>> transmitter
>> to meet or even 1-up Flex's transmitter. Why not have the best cleanest
>> transmitter to go along with the best receiver?
>>
>> Maybe I should wait for 2 years of no further hardware modifications -
>> then
>> I'll know Elecraft finally finished the radio's hardware. I just don't
>> have
>> the self-confidence to go hardware-modding such an expensive radio.
>>
>> So, you are enjoying the world's best receiver now....and I'll enjoy it a
>> few years from now.
>>
>> Yes, I can think this and not write it.
>> But then you went and wrote how Elecraft has finished the radio.
>>
>> No hard feelings.
>> Howard
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

--
View this message in context:
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-eHam-review-after-2%2B-years-tp3202931p3207846.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by HowardZ

Howard,

You were not viewed as a troll, but I believe your perception of the
number and importance of changes is greater than actual.

I encourage you to check the hardware changes over the life of the K3,
and also look at the rate of changes. They are all listed at the bottom
of the K3 page on the Elecraft website (look for "Enhancements and
Modifications")

In the life of the K3 so far, there have been only 12 hardware changes.
The rate is important to me in determining the "finality" of changes too
- note that the only one this year has been the Keying of the SUBOUT
connector to prevent improper installation of the SubRX and does not
change the functioning of the K3 at all, it is just a "builder error
prevention" change. If you order factory built, that one would be a "NO
OP" because you would have had the SubRX factory installed. After 11
changes through 2008, we have seen 7 months of the K3 with no further
real hardware changes. Yes, the audio low pass filter is on the
horizon, but depending on your ears, you may not notice whether it is
installed or not - most owners could not hear what it 'fixes', but you
might want to wait until that change is released.

Yes, I am ignoring the change to the KXV3 to accommodate the new
internal 144 MHz transceiver. The old KXV3 worked just fine but did not
have the 'hooks' for the transceiver - that change is more along the
lines of what other manufacturers would designate as a model
change/upgrade - but Elecraft does not "do business" that way.

With the K3, there is no need for a user to make any of the hardware
changes. A K3 can be upgraded by Elecraft if that is what you want or
need, but if the new mod does not make any difference to your operation,
why bother at all?

I do not expect many more hardware changes to the K3, and in my opinion,
there have actually been very few since its introduction, but I base my
comparison on the K2 which had many incremental changes until new boards
were released with SN 3000, and only 2 after that time.

BTW -- your email is being sent in multiple copies, I have seen 3 in my
inbox this morning. You may want to see where it is stuck in the
pipeline, be that your email client or your ISP or elsewhere.

73,
Don W3FPR

HowardZ wrote:
> Ah Don,
>
> You are so kind. I expected to be labeled a troll.
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

David Gilbert

Re: K3 eHam review after 2+ years

In reply to this post by Carl Smithson

Yes, some of the stuff posted on the Elecraft reflector is giddy fanaticism (i.e., the "Elecraft mojo" threads), but I don't think any of the responses to Howard's posting so far have been in that category. They've all been pretty objective and none have berated Howard for expressing his opinion. What specifically did you feel was inappropriate?

In my case, I researched available rigs pretty extensively before making what I thought was an objective decision a few months ago to buy a K3, so as a counter to your accusation of fanaticism I'll ask you the same question I asked Howard ... what current rig (specific brand and model) would you consider to be more stable hardware-wise and still provide approximately equivalent performance in its price class to the K3? I'd honestly like to know, but my guess is that neither of you will step forward with an answer.

73,
Dave AB7E

------Original Mail------
From: "Carl Smithson" <[hidden email]>
To: "'HowardZ'" <[hidden email]>,
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 08:37:26 -0400
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 eHam review after 2+ years

Howard, you gota remember this is the Elecraft list and you aren't allowed
to post anything negative. I see the same fanaticism on the Collins, Yaesu
and Icom lists.
Sonny

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of HowardZ
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 2:29 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 eHam review after 2+ years

Ah Don,

You are so kind. I expected to be labeled a troll.

Monte, yes, I got hid hard by the IT recession - and never recovered - and
now we have another recession. I work at under half my last IT salary -
managing/leading squads of TSA screeners - making
sure they do their jobs by the book - to keep our country safe. I do not
expect to ever get
another IT job.

I do save my pennies and like to buy quality equipment.
I have a Palstar auto-tuner - it's the best!
It can be computer controlled, but nobody wrote any software for it.
So I wrote a Java program to control it - it's available from the Palstar AT
AUTO yahoo group.
Java is easy, but all that reusable code that comes with it - took a bit of
reading/research.

I saved my pennies and purchased the SGC 500 amplifier.
It really has great self protection, has auto band switching, and operates
on 12 to 14 volts.

I deal with S5 to S9 noise every day on Mars nets.
They don't go find a quieter frequency - they just deal with it.
I'm close to having saved enough for a better radio.
I don't like the Flex approach - favoring the Elecraft design.

But alas - I don't feel the radio is finished - hardware wise.
Icom, Flex, Elecraft - they all have downloadable firmware/software -
I'm not afraid of new software releases.
Hardware mods - yep - I don't want to deal with them.

And I only brought it up because the first poster showed us his eham review,
which seemed to be stating that the K3 is done/perfected/100%.

But I will wait a little longer.

BTW, maybe I don't need a better radio?
Maybe a MFJ 1026?
Maybe a beverage antenna?
Maybe if all the MARS members purchase a 500 watt transmitter?
Nosie noise nosie...

Howard

Don Ehrlich wrote:
>
> Howard writes thoughtfully and I like his style. His comments are well
> thought out and cleverly put and I welcome them. Thank you Howard. The
> early K3 was not your cup of tea but it is exactly what I wanted .. we all

> have different needs. So, what else is new?
>
> I have had my K3 #195 for 18 months now and I am simply delighted. It was

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