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K4 full duplex?

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Jeff Griffin

K4 full duplex?

The question of the day on the AMSAT group is.

when will the 2m 70cm module be available, and also is it going to be
fullduplex ?

73 Jeff kb2m

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qrp5w

Re: K4 full duplex?

I have the same question and begged Elecraft to produce a satellite compatible rig. The answer I am thinking is, no. It seems only one antenna port is dedicated to VHF/UHF. I hope I am wrong, would love to hear from Eric or Wayne on this.

72

Howard Kraus, K2UD
---- "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The question of the day on the AMSAT group is.
>
>
>
> when will the 2m 70cm module be available, and also is it going to be
> fullduplex ?
>
>
>
>
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Kevin Cozens-2

Re: K4 full duplex?

In reply to this post by Jeff Griffin

On 2019-05-17 7:34 a.m., [hidden email] wrote:
> when will the 2m 70cm module be available, and also is it going to be
> fullduplex ?

I saw some connections on the back for transverters. I would expect it would
be compatible with existing K-line ones. I don't know what other support is
required at the radio end to use a transverter as I've never used one with
any of my radios.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
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Edward R Cole

Re: K4 full duplex?

In reply to this post by Jeff Griffin

I suspect not because only one ANT connector is designated VHF/UHF.

The dual-conversion K3/K3s has only one DSP so could not do
duplex. K4 is direct-conversion so guess its "maybe". One of the
three HF/6m ANT would need to be co-opted for Tx. Duplex would
really compete with the new IC-9700 for mainstream satellite. 1296
ext transverter would still be required if that band was wanted. 15w
is fine for satellite and driving amps if more power is desired.

My K3//10 with two Rx works well on 2m-eme with dual-polarity
diversity reception using MAP65 and since I do little HF, I'm
satisfied with it.
I run 144/28, 432/28, 1296/28 transverters with it. Also 3400/144
and 10,368/144 thru an intermediary 144/28. And drive a 100w amp
with 1mw on 630m.

Like I said before: "only if I win the lottery". Then I would have
both K4 and KPA1500 in SO2 with my K3 (haha). And the K4 would have
remote capability when I travel away from home (maybe using my iphone).

But the K4 is a handsome looking rig! Guess who win's the Hamvention
"award" for new stuff?

Congrats Wayne & Eric & Co.

73, Ed - KL7UW

Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 07:34:24 -0400
From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] K4 full duplex?

The question of the day on the AMSAT group is.
when will the 2m 70cm module be available, and also is it going to be
fullduplex ?

73 Jeff kb2m

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K4 full duplex?

On 2019-05-17 11:43 AM, Edward R Cole wrote:
> I suspect not because only one ANT connector is designated VHF/UHF.

Look more carefully ... it appears that the XVTR IF IN jack is also
marked "V/U ANT 2". Might be enough to allow duplex on 144/432.

In addition, the rear panel marking does not designate ANT 4 as
VHF/UHF only so perhaps a software upgrade will allow use of other
antenna jacks for VHF/UHF.

<https://swling.com/blog/1c279a0e-ee1e-478f-8505-5fce675fb70a/>

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2019-05-17 11:43 AM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> I suspect not because only one ANT connector is designated VHF/UHF.
>
> The dual-conversion K3/K3s has only one DSP so could not do duplex. K4
> is direct-conversion so guess its "maybe". One of the three HF/6m ANT
> would need to be co-opted for Tx. Duplex would really compete with the
> new IC-9700 for mainstream satellite. 1296 ext transverter would still
> be required if that band was wanted. 15w is fine for satellite and
> driving amps if more power is desired.
>
> My K3//10 with two Rx works well on 2m-eme with dual-polarity diversity
> reception using MAP65 and since I do little HF, I'm satisfied with it.
> I run 144/28, 432/28, 1296/28 transverters with it. Also 3400/144 and
> 10,368/144 thru an intermediary 144/28. And drive a 100w amp with 1mw
> on 630m.
>
> Like I said before: "only if I win the lottery". Then I would have both
> K4 and KPA1500 in SO2 with my K3 (haha). And the K4 would have remote
> capability when I travel away from home (maybe using my iphone).
>
> But the K4 is a handsome looking rig! Guess who win's the Hamvention
> "award" for new stuff?
>
> Congrats Wayne & Eric & Co.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>
>
> Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 07:34:24 -0400
> From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] K4 full duplex?
>
> The question of the day on the AMSAT group is.
> when will the 2m 70cm module be available, and also is it going to be
> fullduplex ?
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Elecraft mailing list

K4 capabilities

A reduction of the seemingly endless speculative postings might be had if the posters first just reviewed the tabs on the K4 pre-order page:

https://elecraft.com/pages/k4-pre-order <https://elecraft.com/pages/k4-pre-order>

Pre-Order - Intro - Overview - Models - Specs - FAQ

They are very informative.

Steve WB6RSE
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Ken G Kopp

Re: K4 capabilities

Well put, Steve

73!

K0PP

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:24 PM Steve Lawrence via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> A reduction of the seemingly endless speculative postings might be had if
> the posters first just reviewed the tabs on the K4 pre-order page:
>
> https://elecraft.com/pages/k4-pre-order <
> https://elecraft.com/pages/k4-pre-order>
>
> Pre-Order - Intro - Overview - Models - Specs - FAQ
>
> They are very informative.
>
> Steve WB6RSE
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K4 capabilities

I wonder just how many folks actually tried to research and find the
answer to their question? I doubt very few. With Google seems
we've gotten into the habit of asking first and then research for ones
self second, or maybe not at all. Just let someone else do the work.
yea right

My stock quasi answer is; "it is in the manual, page xx paragraph zz".

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 5/17/2019 2:34 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote:

> Well put, Steve
>
> 73!
>
> K0PP
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:24 PM Steve Lawrence via Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> A reduction of the seemingly endless speculative postings might be had if
>> the posters first just reviewed the tabs on the K4 pre-order page:
>>
>> https://elecraft.com/pages/k4-pre-order <
>> https://elecraft.com/pages/k4-pre-order>
>>
>> Pre-Order - Intro - Overview - Models - Specs - FAQ
>>
>> They are very informative.
>>
>> Steve WB6RSE
>>

Hisashi T Fujinaka

Re: K4 capabilities

Most of the questions came last night, after Elecraft took the web
page for the K4 down. I think it went back up this morning.

I know people were a little impatient, but cut them some slack.

On Fri, 17 May 2019, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> I wonder just how many folks actually tried to research and find the
> answer to their question? I doubt very few. With Google seems
> we've gotten into the habit of asking first and then research for ones
> self second, or maybe not at all. Just let someone else do the work.
> yea right
>
> My stock quasi answer is; "it is in the manual, page xx paragraph zz".
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 5/17/2019 2:34 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote:
>> Well put, Steve
>>
>> 73!
>>
>> K0PP
>>
>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:24 PM Steve Lawrence via Elecraft <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> A reduction of the seemingly endless speculative postings might be had if
>>> the posters first just reviewed the tabs on the K4 pre-order page:
>>>
>>> https://elecraft.com/pages/k4-pre-order <
>>> https://elecraft.com/pages/k4-pre-order>
>>>
>>> Pre-Order - Intro - Overview - Models - Specs - FAQ
>>>
>>> They are very informative.

--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - [hidden email]
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
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Edward R Cole

Re: K4 full duplex?

In reply to this post by Jeff Griffin

Joe,

The link you supplied was not available when I wrote my reply last
night (in Alaska 4 hours behind EDST).
That label is encouraging.

Since the basic K4 model has two direct conversion receivers perhaps
one can operate in duplex on a separate antenna. Would depend on
separate DSP and audio cktry being present.

The announcement refers to addition of VHF/UHF module (which I take
to be internal to the radio cabinet unlike current XV series).

Ref is likely the same EXREF module added to the synth as in the
K3&K3s. Overall freq stability will depend on the TCXO like it is in
the current K3/K3s if that is true.

I hope provision is made for export of baseband IQ from both Rx. I
take both main-IF and sub-IF from my K3 to two LP-Pan locked to the
same LO to make use of dual-polarity diversity reception on
2m-eme. Being able to run special sw using IQ input from the K4
would set it apart from most other radios.

I am not planning to buy a K4 during the initial roll out. I would
wait for the kit version K4D.

I have a venerable basic FT-736R that will do 144/432 duplex for the
current crop of satellites. Their is work on a geosta 5/10 GHz
hamsat that would use digital modulation and require a special
transceiver (that is beyond any current satellite radio). Issue with
such is finding cheap launch.

So quite happy with my upgraded K3 and KX3 (for now).

73, Ed - KL7UW

On 2019-05-17 11:43 AM, Edward R Cole wrote:
> I suspect not because only one ANT connector is designated VHF/UHF.

Look more carefully ... it appears that the XVTR IF IN jack is also
marked "V/U ANT 2". Might be enough to allow duplex on 144/432.

In addition, the rear panel marking does not designate ANT 4 as
VHF/UHF only so perhaps a software upgrade will allow use of other
antenna jacks for VHF/UHF.

<https://swling.com/blog/1c279a0e-ee1e-478f-8505-5fce675fb70a/>

73,

... Joe, W4TV

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Doug Turnbull

KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

In reply to this post by Kevin Cozens-2

Dear OMs or YLs,
I have a new KPA1500 for use in Europe. Mine came from Elecraft direct
and thus has a US style mains plug and I assume US colour coded AC power
lead. What are the USA colours for Live, Neutral and Ground?

The manual does not supply a schematic and I do not want to open the amp at
this time. I can look on line for this information but am asking as
regards the KPA1500 so as to be certain.

Thank you.

73 Doug EI2CN

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Ken Winterling

Re: KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

Doug,I don't have a KPA1500 but these are the standard power cord wire
colors and functions:

*Function USA Europe*
Neutral White Blue
Hot Black Brown
Ground Green Green/Yellow stripe

If there is any doubt you can send an email to Elecraft; they are very
responsive and helpful.

Ken
WA2LBI

On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 5:36 AM Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear OMs or YLs,
> I have a new KPA1500 for use in Europe. Mine came from Elecraft
> direct
> and thus has a US style mains plug and I assume US colour coded AC power
> lead. What are the USA colours for Live, Neutral and Ground?
>
> The manual does not supply a schematic and I do not want to open the amp at
> this time. I can look on line for this information but am asking as
> regards the KPA1500 so as to be certain.
>
> Thank you.
>
> 73 Doug EI2CN
>
>

Peter Hall

Re: KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

Ken, Doug

Ken is correct. Your amplifier comes with a US colour coded cable and, for your 230V supply, black is active, white is neutral and green is earth.

I had some additional searching to find an Australian heavy duty plug that would fit the supplied mains cable and a standard 240V outlet, but was in the end successful.

Regards,
Peter, VK6HP

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Ken Winterling
Sent: Saturday, 18 May 2019 6:24 PM
To: Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

Doug,I don't have a KPA1500 but these are the standard power cord wire colors and functions:

*Function USA Europe*
Neutral White Blue
Hot Black Brown
Ground Green Green/Yellow stripe

If there is any doubt you can send an email to Elecraft; they are very responsive and helpful.

Ken
WA2LBI

On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 5:36 AM Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear OMs or YLs,
> I have a new KPA1500 for use in Europe. Mine came from Elecraft
> direct and thus has a US style mains plug and I assume US colour coded
> AC power
> lead. What are the USA colours for Live, Neutral and Ground?
>
> The manual does not supply a schematic and I do not want to open the amp at
> this time. I can look on line for this information but am asking as
> regards the KPA1500 so as to be certain.
>
> Thank you.
>
> 73 Doug EI2CN
>
>

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Doug Turnbull

Re: KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

TU Peter, the amp is up and running. 73 Doug EI2CNSent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Peter Hall <[hidden email]> Date: 18/05/2019 11:55 (GMT+00:00) To: Ken Winterling <[hidden email]>, Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours Ken, DougKen is correct. Your amplifier comes with a US colour coded cable and, for your 230V supply, black is active, white is neutral and green is earth.I had some additional searching to find an Australian heavy duty plug that would fit the supplied mains cable and a standard 240V outlet, but was in the end successful.Regards,Peter, VK6HP-----Original Message-----From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Ken WinterlingSent: Saturday, 18 May 2019 6:24 PMTo: Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]>Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 AC Mains wire coloursDoug,I don't have a KPA1500 but these are the standard power cord wire colors and functions:*Function USA Europe*Neutral White BlueHot Black BrownGround Green Green/Yellow stripeIf there is any doubt you can send an email to Elecraft; they are very responsive and helpful.KenWA2LBIOn Sat, May 18, 2019 at 5:36 AM Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]> wrote:> Dear OMs or YLs,> I have a new KPA1500 for use in Europe. Mine came from Elecraft > direct and thus has a US style mains plug and I assume US colour coded > AC power> lead. What are the USA colours for Live, Neutral and Ground?>> The manual does not supply a schematic and I do not want to open the amp at> this time. I can look on line for this information but am asking as> regards the KPA1500 so as to be certain.>> Thank you.>> 73 Doug EI2CN>>______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://secure-web.cisco.com/1I4shJco4vh4ezcpQ7u8qYbg_fwpXZwNSwRrT7Q7qc3vy38tTgCfNQHWYt3vJYM0utpGuV4XfizsKT6BCQ7g807_od2wmhX7gbKnXkcoC82HiQEz7P8G-8cBPCwH5ubP3qACjqeYS1XL9AY7q9EL37W-o5FEC5XmkvaRf77gqJ6S5qQ2ne5KI1Uhmi4Zar_NZXL6LTHKzlFPnlHhE98DYGjm-L8sQHsH3viiDCTF1Kh9BaATrV33TWAO33FCqWyJTk5ohsosDYAR0Om6wdAXZf9Fr-xtkfqar9_w6eMvYsHfPEnlcfNLs4zxyHmdMuaCljbmq7j3F6qEImhmQ1q085U7Wt46OlG66604m8MoPuQO6yOV-UIOTFs5ujox0_uj0Y_eXAWggl7BrKzqW0l7ZAJSdL3IyPsF20wXKnVqKlO7fhclqmUsZQIMFhFXrLKy-Rg0WFfRohlq2Hrs2lx8DMaBDekHGqtNnDXQKRbHU-Js/http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2FelecraftHelp: http://secure-web.cisco.com/1ThHW4ZZaEtlw_eDBOjG67qpzDGxViRudeDSqb9Aud8rt-4DeWhqbp8_SfEhnJecmfNXBeIGRhf1kCg_WVT_VH6gNTAe6HGg81cU7z5qyDksGEM7nMk7K1DikKaOhuwT_nxJvL0UhD5J14es2rJNhYFRuXkaRy7rLJiIPvKURG5fhz2VBsIGayAlTjfVniLiL_-5Klp_SUkykmrPLyhfBrJc6MLk4NIAOwzWZ4LXfheiBE395VVlBEVxngidGHGUYBQ3ikKt9SY1uMqjcEAcbnyCuB-1O9Ja2SIrrLtXRw4w1sb2ScdE_2MbLDhhbLHcLSfkr-aUF6k3ja0N3jKIfg4unhaCX2awOrLJFn_3kdDzUVdiMPoe4Drz0WO_0ZgXjNSD1a0aDwR5wvNIKUKQmD4_0ZDstiqgf8SlJD-OoU5NPmPK0caNTskyHDV1oV9GhhWsdjyLnis9uVvV3w_Xgd1h0DaqXMWHHUxBCz7cj6Os/http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Jim Brown-10

Re: KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

In reply to this post by Doug Turnbull

On 5/18/2019 2:35 AM, Doug Turnbull wrote:
> The manual does not supply a schematic and I do not want to open the amp at
> this time.

An ohmmeter will quickly provide at least part of the answer. Ground
should go to the chassis, phase and neutral should not, but should show
continuity between them because they feed the power transformer.

73, Jim K9YC

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Clay Autery-2

Re: KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

In reply to this post by Peter Hall

230VAC on 3 wires? Never knew they did 3 wire 220V.... I always
assumed it was still 2 hots and ground (plus an optional neutral).

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 18-May-19 05:55, Peter Hall wrote:

> Ken, Doug
>
> Ken is correct. Your amplifier comes with a US colour coded cable and, for your 230V supply, black is active, white is neutral and green is earth.
>
> I had some additional searching to find an Australian heavy duty plug that would fit the supplied mains cable and a standard 240V outlet, but was in the end successful.
>
> Regards,
> Peter, VK6HP
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Ken Winterling
> Sent: Saturday, 18 May 2019 6:24 PM
> To: Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours
>
> Doug,I don't have a KPA1500 but these are the standard power cord wire colors and functions:
>
> *Function USA Europe*
> Neutral White Blue
> Hot Black Brown
> Ground Green Green/Yellow stripe
>
> If there is any doubt you can send an email to Elecraft; they are very responsive and helpful.
>
> Ken
> WA2LBI
>
>
> On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 5:36 AM Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Dear OMs or YLs,
>> I have a new KPA1500 for use in Europe. Mine came from Elecraft
>> direct and thus has a US style mains plug and I assume US colour coded
>> AC power
>> lead. What are the USA colours for Live, Neutral and Ground?
>>
>> The manual does not supply a schematic and I do not want to open the amp at
>> this time. I can look on line for this information but am asking as
>> regards the KPA1500 so as to be certain.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> 73 Doug EI2CN
>>
>>
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Jim Brown-10

Re: KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

On 5/18/2019 4:28 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
> 230VAC on 3 wires? Never knew they did 3 wire 220V.... I always
> assumed it was still 2 hots and ground (plus an optional neutral).

Two hots (phases) and ground is three wires. Single-phase power normally
comes into a building in North America as two phases and a neutral. We
connect a 240V load between the two phases, and a 120V load between one
phase and a neutral. It's not unusual to feed a sub-panel with both
phases, neutral, and ground so that the panel can feed both 120V and
240V loads. The key here is that loads must NEVER be connected between a
phase and ground, ALWAYS between phases or between phase and neutral.

You probably know that EU runs on 230/240V, wired phase, neutral, and
ground.

73, Jim K9YC

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Peter Hall

Re: KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

In reply to this post by Doug Turnbull

You’re welcome, Doug. I’m glad you have the KPA1500 up and running.

Your note, and my recollection of installing my own KPA1500, identify an important omission in the KPA1500 manual. Some other shortcomings of the manual (such as a decent working block diagram) are merely irritating but not including the proper mains connection for a $5000 device shipped internationally is a serious oversight. It’s clear there is not a widespread appreciation of global power standards in this email group (for example) and, rather than having a future user stumble across incorrect or incomplete information, the Elecraft manual needs to have the definitive instructions up-front.

I’m not sure how the EU regulations are constructed but I suspect that it’s technically illegal to use the supplied cable in Australia. For Australian users a more immediate consideration on opening the box is that the US cable won’t fit through a standard Australian mains plug cover. You can buy one Clipsal brand plug from a specialised electrical wholesaler which will work, or you can use a heavy duty plug and socket if available.

73, Peter.

From: turnbull <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, 18 May 2019 10:14 PM
To: Peter Hall <[hidden email]>; Ken Winterling <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

TU Peter, the amp is up and running. 73 Doug EI2CN

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: Peter Hall <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Date: 18/05/2019 11:55 (GMT+00:00)
To: Ken Winterling <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>, Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

Ken, Doug

Ken is correct. Your amplifier comes with a US colour coded cable and, for your 230V supply, black is active, white is neutral and green is earth.

I had some additional searching to find an Australian heavy duty plug that would fit the supplied mains cable and a standard 240V outlet, but was in the end successful.

Regards,
Peter, VK6HP

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> On Behalf Of Ken Winterling
Sent: Saturday, 18 May 2019 6:24 PM
To: Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

Doug,I don't have a KPA1500 but these are the standard power cord wire colors and functions:

*Function USA Europe*
Neutral White Blue
Hot Black Brown
Ground Green Green/Yellow stripe

If there is any doubt you can send an email to Elecraft; they are very responsive and helpful.

Ken
WA2LBI

On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 5:36 AM Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

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K9MA

Re: KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Some equipment in NA is wired with both phases plus neutral, so that 120
V is available. Electric clothes driers and stoves, for example, which
have light bulbs and sometimes 120 V outlets. (You can imagine what
would have happened if 240 V bulbs had been required here.) However, at
one time the code did not require separate neutral and ground wires, so
the ground was used as the 120 V return. If the ground opens up, your
whole stove is suddenly at 120 V. Unfortunately, some of those are still
around, and seem to be sort of grandfathered, or just ignored.

Hopefully, there's no ham equipment wired that way!

73,
Scott K9MA

On 5/18/2019 19:16, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 5/18/2019 4:28 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> 230VAC on 3 wires? Never knew they did 3 wire 220V.... I always
>> assumed it was still 2 hots and ground (plus an optional neutral).
>
> Two hots (phases) and ground is three wires. Single-phase power
> normally comes into a building in North America as two phases and a
> neutral. We connect a 240V load between the two phases, and a 120V
> load between one phase and a neutral. It's not unusual to feed a
> sub-panel with both phases, neutral, and ground so that the panel can
> feed both 120V and 240V loads. The key here is that loads must NEVER
> be connected between a phase and ground, ALWAYS between phases or
> between phase and neutral.
>
> You probably know that EU runs on 230/240V, wired phase, neutral, and
> ground.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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ke9uw

Re: KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

I have in fact seen some home brew amplifiers wired with ground used as the neutral...and it was impossible to talk the owner out of it. It has also appeared in some of the schematics in the literature over the decades.

BTW, I think if instead of saying "phases", it would be less confusing to say two "legs" plus neutral for the single phase 240 vac coming into the house.

Chuck Hawley
[hidden email]

Amateur Radio, KE9UW
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of K9MA <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2019 9:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 AC Mains wire colours

Some equipment in NA is wired with both phases plus neutral, so that 120
V is available. Electric clothes driers and stoves, for example, which
have light bulbs and sometimes 120 V outlets. (You can imagine what
would have happened if 240 V bulbs had been required here.) However, at
one time the code did not require separate neutral and ground wires, so
the ground was used as the 120 V return. If the ground opens up, your
whole stove is suddenly at 120 V. Unfortunately, some of those are still
around, and seem to be sort of grandfathered, or just ignored.

Hopefully, there's no ham equipment wired that way!

73,
Scott K9MA

On 5/18/2019 19:16, Jim Brown wrote:

--
Scott K9MA

[hidden email]

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______________________________________________________________
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Chuck, KE9UW