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Jay

KPA500

Marketting 101
Never ever announce a product before your ready to sell and ship it.

Look at these horrible ham company examples.

Alpha on the 9500, years late to market and many angry hams who put down
lots of money for a downpayment. They will never live that down.

Hilberling radio, God, I am glad we never took a penny of deposite on one
of those.

There are many more examples too, even with Elecraft.

Elecraft with the 1kW and 1.5kW amps they announced and showed at trade
shows.....I am sure you remember.

I don't konw who does the marketting there, but in my opinion keep it in
the lab until your really ready to take orders boyz.

Nuff said.
Jay, WX0B Array Solutions owner and a K3 owner.

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Doug Person

Re: KPA500

It's never as simple as that. I think announcing a product when its
on its final approach is fine. I think getting tons of feedback on what
you're about to invest heavily in is good business. Maybe the truth of
the earlier amps was that there just wasn't enough positive response to
them. Maybe this time they used all the input from the previous attempt
to refine the price point and feature set. Maybe everytime someone here
says the price is too high Eric makes another note. Or someone else says
I'll order on the first day - is another note. This is free market
research. Easy access to the most likely buyers. A big product mistake
by a small company like Elecraft could sink them. I think they took a
LOT of notes on the road to completing the K3. Nobody can argue with the
results. And when the KPA-500 is released, it will be based on tons of
feedback.

Doug -- K0DXV

On 9/9/2010 8:33 PM, Jay wrote:

> Marketting 101
> Never ever announce a product before your ready to sell and ship it.
>
> Look at these horrible ham company examples.
>
> Alpha on the 9500, years late to market and many angry hams who put down
> lots of money for a downpayment. They will never live that down.
>
> Hilberling radio, God, I am glad we never took a penny of deposite on one
> of those.
>
> There are many more examples too, even with Elecraft.
>
> Elecraft with the 1kW and 1.5kW amps they announced and showed at trade
> shows.....I am sure you remember.
>
> I don't konw who does the marketting there, but in my opinion keep it in
> the lab until your really ready to take orders boyz.
>
> Nuff said.
> Jay, WX0B Array Solutions owner and a K3 owner.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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wayne burdick

Re: KPA500

Administrator

Doug Person wrote:

> Maybe this time they used all the input from the previous [amp]
> attempt
> to refine the price point and feature set....
> And when the KPA-500 is released, it will be based on tons of
> feedback.

Couldn't have said it better myself :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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GREG WILSON

Re: KPA500

In reply to this post by Doug Person

Free market feedback...bring back the 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Doug Person
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:58 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500

It's never as simple as that. I think announcing a product when its on
its final approach is fine. I think getting tons of feedback on what you're
about to invest heavily in is good business. Maybe the truth of the earlier
amps was that there just wasn't enough positive response to them. Maybe
this time they used all the input from the previous attempt to refine the
price point and feature set. Maybe everytime someone here says the price is
too high Eric makes another note. Or someone else says I'll order on the
first day - is another note. This is free market research. Easy access to
the most likely buyers. A big product mistake by a small company like
Elecraft could sink them. I think they took a LOT of notes on the road to
completing the K3. Nobody can argue with the results. And when the KPA-500
is released, it will be based on tons of feedback.

Doug -- K0DXV

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Phillip Lontz

Re: KPA500

So I got me a ten watt k3... I like it... It is very good. It works. And I'm thinking of a KPA500.
But to run the KPA500 I gotta get the 100 watt add-on first. Hummmm.... Is that a deal breaker? Might be. If I don't get the hundred water then I can't get fully output.!.?&-¥xxx
So the true cost of the kPA500 is way more... For me with just ten watts. I really only want ten watts. But when I feel the need, the need for speed (yeah I had to say it) I would like to hit the big lever marked kill and blast them out of their socks.

"Can't hear me OM??
He switches the amp to kill....
How's ur copy now om?

The screenplay is in my head...
Among other things.

I would like to be able to upgrade with out the interim 100 watter.
Yeah, I know, i won't work but I can ask those guys who sweat solder and cash flow and you never know they just might be able to do it.
To me the K2 was a total mind melt...and the K3 is beyond my wildest dreams. Quite an upgrade from the old Heathkits I used to build... No disrespect meant the hotwaters and Indians that may be still lurking.

Phil
Santa Fe

Build your own gear
Grow your own food.

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 9, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Greg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Free market feedback...bring back the 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Doug Person
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:58 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500
>
> It's never as simple as that. I think announcing a product when its on
> its final approach is fine. I think getting tons of feedback on what you're
> about to invest heavily in is good business. Maybe the truth of the earlier
> amps was that there just wasn't enough positive response to them. Maybe
> this time they used all the input from the previous attempt to refine the
> price point and feature set. Maybe everytime someone here says the price is
> too high Eric makes another note. Or someone else says I'll order on the
> first day - is another note. This is free market research. Easy access to
> the most likely buyers. A big product mistake by a small company like
> Elecraft could sink them. I think they took a LOT of notes on the road to
> completing the K3. Nobody can argue with the results. And when the KPA-500
> is released, it will be based on tons of feedback.
>
> Doug -- K0DXV
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Gary Gregory

Re: KPA500

Phil,

Many thanks for the good chuckle mate...unreal

You remember where you put that penny jar now don't you?..or has age clouded
the view?

Seeya

Gary
K3 #679, KPA-500 (Photo) # ????

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Phil Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So I got me a ten watt k3... I like it... It is very good. It works. And
> I'm thinking of a KPA500.
> But to run the KPA500 I gotta get the 100 watt add-on first. Hummmm.... Is
> that a deal breaker? Might be. If I don't get the hundred water then I can't
> get fully output.!.?&-¥xxx
> So the true cost of the kPA500 is way more... For me with just ten watts. I
> really only want ten watts. But when I feel the need, the need for speed
> (yeah I had to say it) I would like to hit the big lever marked kill and
> blast them out of their socks.
>
> "Can't hear me OM??
> He switches the amp to kill....
> How's ur copy now om?
>
> The screenplay is in my head...
> Among other things.
>
> I would like to be able to upgrade with out the interim 100 watter.
> Yeah, I know, i won't work but I can ask those guys who sweat solder and
> cash flow and you never know they just might be able to do it.
> To me the K2 was a total mind melt...and the K3 is beyond my wildest
> dreams. Quite an upgrade from the old Heathkits I used to build... No
> disrespect meant the hotwaters and Indians that may be still lurking.
>
> Phil
> Santa Fe
>
>
> Build your own gear
> Grow your own food.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 9, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Greg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Free market feedback...bring back the 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Doug Person
> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:58 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500
> >
> > It's never as simple as that. I think announcing a product when its on
> > its final approach is fine. I think getting tons of feedback on what
> you're
> > about to invest heavily in is good business. Maybe the truth of the
> earlier
> > amps was that there just wasn't enough positive response to them. Maybe
> > this time they used all the input from the previous attempt to refine the
> > price point and feature set. Maybe everytime someone here says the price
> is
> > too high Eric makes another note. Or someone else says I'll order on the
> > first day - is another note. This is free market research. Easy access
> to
> > the most likely buyers. A big product mistake by a small company like
> > Elecraft could sink them. I think they took a LOT of notes on the road
> to
> > completing the K3. Nobody can argue with the results. And when the
> KPA-500
> > is released, it will be based on tons of feedback.
> >
> > Doug -- K0DXV
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

--
Gary
VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/
K3 #679
For everything else there's Mastercard!!!
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n7ws

Re: KPA500

In reply to this post by GREG WILSON

Right, 500W is hardly worthwhile. Make it at least 2KW PEP. Got to make up for the tuner and coax losses and to live on RTTY.

--- On Thu, 9/9/10, Greg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Free market feedback...bring back the
> 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC

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Gary Gregory

Re: KPA500

So buy an Alpha, or a Commander. or a........
Some of us don't have a kind regulator that will allow us more than 400W
PEP...yep, some of us do comply...we are in the minority no doubt, but
nevertheless we comply and the KPA-500 fits the bill nicely.

:-)

Gary

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Right, 500W is hardly worthwhile. Make it at least 2KW PEP. Got to make up
> for the tuner and coax losses and to live on RTTY.
>
> --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Greg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Free market feedback...bring back the
> > 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

ha4zd

Re: KPA500

In reply to this post by Phillip Lontz

On 9/10/2010 6:10 AM, Phil Townsend wrote:

> So I got me a ten watt k3... I like it... It is very good. It works. And I'm thinking of a KPA500.
> But to run the KPA500 I gotta get the 100 watt add-on first. Hummmm.... Is that a deal breaker? Might be. If I don't get the hundred water then I can't get fully output.!.?&-¥xxx
> So the true cost of the kPA500 is way more... For me with just ten watts. I really only want ten watts. But when I feel the need, the need for speed (yeah I had to say it) I would like to hit the big lever marked kill and blast them out of their socks.
>
> "Can't hear me OM??
> He switches the amp to kill....
> How's ur copy now om?
>
> The screenplay is in my head...
> Among other things.
>
> I would like to be able to upgrade with out the interim 100 watter.
> Yeah, I know, i won't work but I can ask those guys who sweat solder and cash flow and you never know they just might be able to do it.
> To me the K2 was a total mind melt...and the K3 is beyond my wildest dreams. Quite an upgrade from the old Heathkits I used to build... No disrespect meant the hotwaters and Indians that may be still lurking.
>
> Phil
> Santa Fe
>
>
> Build your own gear
> Grow your own food.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 9, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Greg<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Free market feedback...bring back the 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Doug Person
>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:58 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500
>>
>> It's never as simple as that. I think announcing a product when its on
>> its final approach is fine. I think getting tons of feedback on what you're
>> about to invest heavily in is good business. Maybe the truth of the earlier
>> amps was that there just wasn't enough positive response to them. Maybe
>> this time they used all the input from the previous attempt to refine the
>> price point and feature set. Maybe everytime someone here says the price is
>> too high Eric makes another note. Or someone else says I'll order on the
>> first day - is another note. This is free market research. Easy access to
>> the most likely buyers. A big product mistake by a small company like
>> Elecraft could sink them. I think they took a LOT of notes on the road to
>> completing the K3. Nobody can argue with the results. And when the KPA-500
>> is released, it will be based on tons of feedback.
>>
>> Doug -- K0DXV
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Four MOSFETs can be driven out with ten watts id these are MRF150s (or
VRF). You probably need to modify the input circuit. For EB104 needs
only 6 watts.

--
István Szabó

Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm. - Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

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K6LMP

Re: KPA500

In reply to this post by n7ws

I think some of the folks who are calling for gigawatt amplifiers (ok, full legal limit...) are losing focus on one key fact: Elecraft has prospered by making products that SOME hams want that NOBODY else makes. The K3 is a perfect example: an exquisite transceiver, quite arguably the best available at any price if you're not a fan of big boxes with big buttons. It's portable, can be expanded incrementally with modules to meet any operator's specific needs, and it's 'way up in the upper right hand corner of the value scatter graph (price on one axis, performance on the other).

So, what could Elecraft bring to the 2KW amplifier market that would (a) differentiate it from the others and (b)stay within the general confines of the K3 "style", which means compact, efficient, modular expandability, and (probably) fit within the K3 form factor.

You cannot build a 2KW amplifier that meets those criteria. Modular? Yes; you could make the power supply and an auto-tuner modular add-ons. Efficient? Yes. Compact? No. K3 form factor? Not a chance. For example, the Alpha 2KW amplifier measures 17.5w x 78.5h x 19.75d. It weighs well over 50 lbs. It costs $5000. There is no way to build a large-output amp that will fit within the K3 form factor. the physical size of components needed to handle that power makes it impossible.

So, some on this list essentially are asking Elecraft to step outside its well-defined and highly successful approach to the market and build a "me too" legal limit amplifier that Elecraft could not meaningfully distinguish from the competition, except for the nameplate. Amplifiers are not that complex, compared to the K3. That lack of complexity is exactly why this is not a market in which Elecraft could compete successfully. There's no way to meaningfully differentiate its 2KW amp from others, except for the nameplate. Yes, they would "include" their superb customer support as a product feature. But I don't think they could bring enough differentiation from the Alpha, Tokyo Hygain, and other high end amplifiers already on the market to break into that market at a volume that would support design and production costs.

The folks in Aptos DO understand the market. They are listening, and watching this dialogue. We can keep that process productive by not asking Elecraft to come out with a product that breaks the laws of physics. It's a small company, with limited design resources. Let's all encourage them to focus on new products that realistically fit within the Elecraft market niche.

my 3 cents worth (inflation, you know...)

Lew K6LMP

On Sep 9, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> Right, 500W is hardly worthwhile. Make it at least 2KW PEP. Got to make up for the tuner and coax losses and to live on RTTY.
>
> --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Greg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Free market feedback...bring back the
>> 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Phillip Lontz

Re: KPA500

In reply to this post by ha4zd

New 1700 volt sic jfet

http://www.semisouth.com/news/press_releases/2010-04-30_New_1700V_and_1200V_SiC_JFETs.html

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 10, 2010, at 7:12 AM, Phil Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A company called Semi South builds some very serious solid state devices that can swing 30 amps @ 1200 volts!
> They make them do electric car controls. Plus very very low distortion so low almost unmeasurable. I tried them in an audio application and was blown away.
> Can't remember the part number but their web site has details.
>
> Follow my tweets:
> PhilTownsend
>
> Build your own gear
> Grow your own food
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:42 AM, István Szabó <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 9/10/2010 6:10 AM, Phil Townsend wrote:
>>> So I got me a ten watt k3... I like it... It is very good. It works. And I'm thinking of a KPA500.
>>> But to run the KPA500 I gotta get the 100 watt add-on first. Hummmm.... Is that a deal breaker? Might be. If I don't get the hundred water then I can't get fully output.!.?&-¥xxx
>>> So the true cost of the kPA500 is way more... For me with just ten watts. I really only want ten watts. But when I feel the need, the need for speed (yeah I had to say it) I would like to hit the big lever marked kill and blast them out of their socks.
>>>
>>> "Can't hear me OM??
>>> He switches the amp to kill....
>>> How's ur copy now om?
>>>
>>> The screenplay is in my head...
>>> Among other things.
>>>
>>> I would like to be able to upgrade with out the interim 100 watter.
>>> Yeah, I know, i won't work but I can ask those guys who sweat solder and cash flow and you never know they just might be able to do it.
>>> To me the K2 was a total mind melt...and the K3 is beyond my wildest dreams. Quite an upgrade from the old Heathkits I used to build... No disrespect meant the hotwaters and Indians that may be still lurking.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>> Santa Fe
>>>
>>>
>>> Build your own gear
>>> Grow your own food.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Sep 9, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Greg<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Free market feedback...bring back the 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [hidden email]
>>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Doug Person
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:58 PM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500
>>>>
>>>> It's never as simple as that. I think announcing a product when its on
>>>> its final approach is fine. I think getting tons of feedback on what you're
>>>> about to invest heavily in is good business. Maybe the truth of the earlier
>>>> amps was that there just wasn't enough positive response to them. Maybe
>>>> this time they used all the input from the previous attempt to refine the
>>>> price point and feature set. Maybe everytime someone here says the price is
>>>> too high Eric makes another note. Or someone else says I'll order on the
>>>> first day - is another note. This is free market research. Easy access to
>>>> the most likely buyers. A big product mistake by a small company like
>>>> Elecraft could sink them. I think they took a LOT of notes on the road to
>>>> completing the K3. Nobody can argue with the results. And when the KPA-500
>>>> is released, it will be based on tons of feedback.
>>>>
>>>> Doug -- K0DXV
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Four MOSFETs can be driven out with ten watts id these are MRF150s (or
>> VRF). You probably need to modify the input circuit. For EB104 needs
>> only 6 watts.
>>
>> --
>> István Szabó
>>
>> Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm. - Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Hisashi T Fujinaka

Re: KPA500

Is this going to work with the K2?

Yeah, I'm still one of those guys.

--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - [hidden email]
BSEE(6/86) + BSChem(3/95) + BAEnglish(8/95) + MSCS(8/03) + $2.50 = latte
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Bill K9YEQ

Re: KPA500

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

My 3 cents: I like the idea of the 500w with 6 meters. I am using a
THP2.5kfx on low bands now to get the extra s unit. I would gladly have use
for it and the KPA500. As already mentioned: Foolish to battle in the
market place where it is already full. But 6m and the low bands in the 500
watt range, very enticing. Just be sure to design a remote tuner powered
over coax with auto band switching, etc., that works with this setup and
will tune-up a wet noodle. ;-). Then who could resist?

Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:20 PM
To: Doug Person
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500

Doug Person wrote:

> Maybe this time they used all the input from the previous [amp]
> attempt to refine the price point and feature set....
> And when the KPA-500 is released, it will be based on tons of
> feedback.

Couldn't have said it better myself :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Bob Nielsen-2

Re: KPA500

In reply to this post by Phillip Lontz

There is the little matter of Part 97, Section 97.317, which limits amplifiers to 15 dB gain (10 watts in -> 316 watts out). After all, the FCC still needs to "protect" us from all those CB'ers (does anyone even use CB anymore?)

Bob, N7XY

On Sep 9, 2010, at 9:10 PM, Phil Townsend wrote:

Jack Brabham KZ5A

Re: KPA500

In reply to this post by K6LMP

Lew,

Except for issues related to physical size, most of your rationale for
not producing a 2KW amp seems equally applicable to a 500W amp.

The K3, from a marketing perspective, played into a vacant market
niche. The Japanese companies had focused on low-end, how cheap can
we make it radios or over-priced bloated barges for the money is no
object crowd.

There is still nothing out there that is competitive with the K3 on a
price/performance basis.

The amp market on the other hand doesn't seem to have any vacant niches,
MFJ has the low end and mid-range covered and there are a herd of
companies duking it out over the high end market.

There also doesn't seem to be much technical performance differentiation
between the low, mid, and high end amps on the market today. The
dollars/watt number for any particular brand seems to be mostly driven
by how fancy a box the amp is packaged in.

So, I'm thinking that if Elecraft is determined to get into the amp
market the KPA500 will hit most of the product differentiators
available. It matches the K3 appearance and size, maintains the high
portability factor, and can claim some technical innovation for the
built-in PS.

Considering that the principal product differentiators are only germane
to K3 owners maybe the intended market is primarily "existing K3
owners", rather than the general amp market. No doubt that will be
where the Lion's share of the sales go in any case.

Maybe the next Elecraft amp will be something more powerful with an
external PS but still in the K3 box, that would be interesting.

73 Jack KZ5A

On 9/10/2010 8:57 AM, Lew Phelps K6LMP wrote:

> I think some of the folks who are calling for gigawatt amplifiers (ok, full legal limit...) are losing focus on one key fact: Elecraft has prospered by making products that SOME hams want that NOBODY else makes. The K3 is a perfect example: an exquisite transceiver, quite arguably the best available at any price if you're not a fan of big boxes with big buttons. It's portable, can be expanded incrementally with modules to meet any operator's specific needs, and it's 'way up in the upper right hand corner of the value scatter graph (price on one axis, performance on the other).
>
> So, what could Elecraft bring to the 2KW amplifier market that would (a) differentiate it from the others and (b)stay within the general confines of the K3 "style", which means compact, efficient, modular expandability, and (probably) fit within the K3 form factor.
>
> You cannot build a 2KW amplifier that meets those criteria. Modular? Yes; you could make the power supply and an auto-tuner modular add-ons. Efficient? Yes. Compact? No. K3 form factor? Not a chance. For example, the Alpha 2KW amplifier measures 17.5w x 78.5h x 19.75d. It weighs well over 50 lbs. It costs $5000. There is no way to build a large-output amp that will fit within the K3 form factor. the physical size of components needed to handle that power makes it impossible.
>
> So, some on this list essentially are asking Elecraft to step outside its well-defined and highly successful approach to the market and build a "me too" legal limit amplifier that Elecraft could not meaningfully distinguish from the competition, except for the nameplate. Amplifiers are not that complex, compared to the K3. That lack of complexity is exactly why this is not a market in which Elecraft could compete successfully. There's no way to meaningfully differentiate its 2KW amp from others, except for the nameplate. Yes, they would "include" their superb customer support as a product feature. But I don't think they could bring enough differentiation from the Alpha, Tokyo Hygain, and other high end amplifiers already on the market to break into that market at a volume that would support design and production costs.
>
> The folks in Aptos DO understand the market. They are listening, and watching this dialogue. We can keep that process productive by not asking Elecraft to come out with a product that breaks the laws of physics. It's a small company, with limited design resources. Let's all encourage them to focus on new products that realistically fit within the Elecraft market niche.
>
> my 3 cents worth (inflation, you know...)
>
> Lew K6LMP
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 9, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:
>
>> Right, 500W is hardly worthwhile. Make it at least 2KW PEP. Got to make up for the tuner and coax losses and to live on RTTY.
>>
>> --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Greg<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Free market feedback...bring back the
>>> 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: KPA500

Jack,

> The amp market on the other hand doesn't seem to have any vacant
> niches, MFJ has the low end and mid-range covered and there are a
> herd of companies duking it out over the high end market.

The one vacant market niche - and one Elecraft appear to have avoided -
is the US "Legal Limit" solid state segment. There are literally
dozens of 500 - 600 watt solid state amps and several good products
at the 1000 W PEP level but there is nothing that covers 160 - 6
at 1500 W CW/RTTY.

I suppose that begs the question whether there is a market for such
an amplifier considering that the $/W tend to be higher for solid
state amplifiers than tube amplifiers of comparable power levels.
I have my feelings but since it isn't my R&D or marketing dollars on
the line, they're not particularly important.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 9/10/2010 11:57 AM, Jack Brabham wrote:

> Lew,
>
> Except for issues related to physical size, most of your rationale for
> not producing a 2KW amp seems equally applicable to a 500W amp.
>
> The K3, from a marketing perspective, played into a vacant market
> niche. The Japanese companies had focused on low-end, how cheap can
> we make it radios or over-priced bloated barges for the money is no
> object crowd.
>
> There is still nothing out there that is competitive with the K3 on a
> price/performance basis.
>
> The amp market on the other hand doesn't seem to have any vacant niches,
> MFJ has the low end and mid-range covered and there are a herd of
> companies duking it out over the high end market.
>
> There also doesn't seem to be much technical performance differentiation
> between the low, mid, and high end amps on the market today. The
> dollars/watt number for any particular brand seems to be mostly driven
> by how fancy a box the amp is packaged in.
>
> So, I'm thinking that if Elecraft is determined to get into the amp
> market the KPA500 will hit most of the product differentiators
> available. It matches the K3 appearance and size, maintains the high
> portability factor, and can claim some technical innovation for the
> built-in PS.
>
> Considering that the principal product differentiators are only germane
> to K3 owners maybe the intended market is primarily "existing K3
> owners", rather than the general amp market. No doubt that will be
> where the Lion's share of the sales go in any case.
>
> Maybe the next Elecraft amp will be something more powerful with an
> external PS but still in the K3 box, that would be interesting.
>
> 73 Jack KZ5A
>
>
>
>
> On 9/10/2010 8:57 AM, Lew Phelps K6LMP wrote:
>> I think some of the folks who are calling for gigawatt amplifiers (ok, full legal limit...) are losing focus on one key fact: Elecraft has prospered by making products that SOME hams want that NOBODY else makes. The K3 is a perfect example: an exquisite transceiver, quite arguably the best available at any price if you're not a fan of big boxes with big buttons. It's portable, can be expanded incrementally with modules to meet any operator's specific needs, and it's 'way up in the upper right hand corner of the value scatter graph (price on one axis, performance on the other).
>>
>> So, what could Elecraft bring to the 2KW amplifier market that would (a) differentiate it from the others and (b)stay within the general confines of the K3 "style", which means compact, efficient, modular expandability, and (probably) fit within the K3 form factor.
>>
>> You cannot build a 2KW amplifier that meets those criteria. Modular? Yes; you could make the power supply and an auto-tuner modular add-ons. Efficient? Yes. Compact? No. K3 form factor? Not a chance. For example, the Alpha 2KW amplifier measures 17.5w x 78.5h x 19.75d. It weighs well over 50 lbs. It costs $5000. There is no way to build a large-output amp that will fit within the K3 form factor. the physical size of components needed to handle that power makes it impossible.
>>
>> So, some on this list essentially are asking Elecraft to step outside its well-defined and highly successful approach to the market and build a "me too" legal limit amplifier that Elecraft could not meaningfully distinguish from the competition, except for the nameplate. Amplifiers are not that complex, compared to the K3. That lack of complexity is exactly why this is not a market in which Elecraft could compete successfully. There's no way to meaningfully differentiate its 2KW amp from others, except for the nameplate. Yes, they would "include" their superb customer support as a product feature. But I don't think they could bring enough differentiation from the Alpha, Tokyo Hygain, and other high end amplifiers already on the market to break into that market at a volume that would support design and production costs.
>>
>> The folks in Aptos DO understand the market. They are listening, and watching this dialogue. We can keep that process productive by not asking Elecraft to come out with a product that breaks the laws of physics. It's a small company, with limited design resources. Let's all encourage them to focus on new products that realistically fit within the Elecraft market niche.
>>
>> my 3 cents worth (inflation, you know...)
>>
>> Lew K6LMP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:
>>
>>> Right, 500W is hardly worthwhile. Make it at least 2KW PEP. Got to make up for the tuner and coax losses and to live on RTTY.
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Greg<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Free market feedback...bring back the
>>>> 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>

P.B. Christensen

Re: KPA500

The only SS amp I know of to fulfill the HF+6 "US legal limit" requirement
is the forthcoming SPE 2K-FA. I don't believe FCC certification is yet
complete, but according to SPE, availability is the second half of 2010 to
the rest of the world. SPE's literature places a target price of EUR 4,650,
or USD $6,050 as of today's exchange rate.

Having owned several high-end VT amps as well as the SPE-1K SS amp, I likely
will not own another SS amp until: (1) IMD performance improves to be on-par
with the best VT amps (although SPE appears to be one of the better low-IMD
amps); (2) output power remains absolutely stable with PA temperature; (3)
more advanced, low noise cooling methods are developed; and (4) better
design attention paid to the QSK system.

Paul, W9AC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500

>
> Jack,
>
> > The amp market on the other hand doesn't seem to have any vacant
> > niches, MFJ has the low end and mid-range covered and there are a
> > herd of companies duking it out over the high end market.
>
> The one vacant market niche - and one Elecraft appear to have avoided -
> is the US "Legal Limit" solid state segment. There are literally
> dozens of 500 - 600 watt solid state amps and several good products
> at the 1000 W PEP level but there is nothing that covers 160 - 6
> at 1500 W CW/RTTY.
>
> I suppose that begs the question whether there is a market for such
> an amplifier considering that the $/W tend to be higher for solid
> state amplifiers than tube amplifiers of comparable power levels.
> I have my feelings but since it isn't my R&D or marketing dollars on
> the line, they're not particularly important.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 9/10/2010 11:57 AM, Jack Brabham wrote:
>> Lew,
>>
>> Except for issues related to physical size, most of your rationale for
>> not producing a 2KW amp seems equally applicable to a 500W amp.
>>
>> The K3, from a marketing perspective, played into a vacant market
>> niche. The Japanese companies had focused on low-end, how cheap can
>> we make it radios or over-priced bloated barges for the money is no
>> object crowd.
>>
>> There is still nothing out there that is competitive with the K3 on a
>> price/performance basis.
>>
>> The amp market on the other hand doesn't seem to have any vacant niches,
>> MFJ has the low end and mid-range covered and there are a herd of
>> companies duking it out over the high end market.
>>
>> There also doesn't seem to be much technical performance differentiation
>> between the low, mid, and high end amps on the market today. The
>> dollars/watt number for any particular brand seems to be mostly driven
>> by how fancy a box the amp is packaged in.
>>
>> So, I'm thinking that if Elecraft is determined to get into the amp
>> market the KPA500 will hit most of the product differentiators
>> available. It matches the K3 appearance and size, maintains the high
>> portability factor, and can claim some technical innovation for the
>> built-in PS.
>>
>> Considering that the principal product differentiators are only germane
>> to K3 owners maybe the intended market is primarily "existing K3
>> owners", rather than the general amp market. No doubt that will be
>> where the Lion's share of the sales go in any case.
>>
>> Maybe the next Elecraft amp will be something more powerful with an
>> external PS but still in the K3 box, that would be interesting.
>>
>> 73 Jack KZ5A
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/10/2010 8:57 AM, Lew Phelps K6LMP wrote:
>>> I think some of the folks who are calling for gigawatt amplifiers (ok,
>>> full legal limit...) are losing focus on one key fact: Elecraft has
>>> prospered by making products that SOME hams want that NOBODY else makes.
>>> The K3 is a perfect example: an exquisite transceiver, quite arguably
>>> the best available at any price if you're not a fan of big boxes with
>>> big buttons. It's portable, can be expanded incrementally with modules
>>> to meet any operator's specific needs, and it's 'way up in the upper
>>> right hand corner of the value scatter graph (price on one axis,
>>> performance on the other).
>>>
>>> So, what could Elecraft bring to the 2KW amplifier market that would (a)
>>> differentiate it from the others and (b)stay within the general confines
>>> of the K3 "style", which means compact, efficient, modular
>>> expandability, and (probably) fit within the K3 form factor.
>>>
>>> You cannot build a 2KW amplifier that meets those criteria. Modular?
>>> Yes; you could make the power supply and an auto-tuner modular add-ons.
>>> Efficient? Yes. Compact? No. K3 form factor? Not a chance. For
>>> example, the Alpha 2KW amplifier measures 17.5w x 78.5h x 19.75d. It
>>> weighs well over 50 lbs. It costs $5000. There is no way to build a
>>> large-output amp that will fit within the K3 form factor. the physical
>>> size of components needed to handle that power makes it impossible.
>>>
>>> So, some on this list essentially are asking Elecraft to step outside
>>> its well-defined and highly successful approach to the market and build
>>> a "me too" legal limit amplifier that Elecraft could not meaningfully
>>> distinguish from the competition, except for the nameplate. Amplifiers
>>> are not that complex, compared to the K3. That lack of complexity is
>>> exactly why this is not a market in which Elecraft could compete
>>> successfully. There's no way to meaningfully differentiate its 2KW amp
>>> from others, except for the nameplate. Yes, they would "include" their
>>> superb customer support as a product feature. But I don't think they
>>> could bring enough differentiation from the Alpha, Tokyo Hygain, and
>>> other high end amplifiers already on the market to break into that
>>> market at a volume that would support design and production costs.
>>>
>>> The folks in Aptos DO understand the market. They are listening, and
>>> watching this dialogue. We can keep that process productive by not
>>> asking Elecraft to come out with a product that breaks the laws of
>>> physics. It's a small company, with limited design resources. Let's all
>>> encourage them to focus on new products that realistically fit within
>>> the Elecraft market niche.
>>>
>>> my 3 cents worth (inflation, you know...)
>>>
>>> Lew K6LMP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 9, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:
>>>
>>>> Right, 500W is hardly worthwhile. Make it at least 2KW PEP. Got to
>>>> make up for the tuner and coax losses and to live on RTTY.
>>>>
>>>> --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Greg<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Free market feedback...bring back the
>>>>> 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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K5WA

Re: KPA500

In reply to this post by Jay

I couldn't agree more!!

I just bought a new ACOM 2000A because the KPA-1500 was not going to be
built any time soon. I didn't want to spend that much on a non-Elecraft
product, but I'm extremely happy with my purchase. The QSK and automatic
tune up are top notch. I am confident Elecraft can build an equally
satisfying 1500 watt amp. Wayne, us gray haired guys are spending a few
bucks on toys to use during retirement and I've got one more amp slot to
fill in my SO2R desk. ;-)

Bob K5WA

Message: 8

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 21:30:53 -0600

From: "Greg" <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500

To: <[hidden email]>

Message-ID: <001601cb5098$93238220$b96a8660$@cableone.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Free market feedback...bring back the 1500 watt amp! 73 de Greg-N4CC

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wayne burdick

Re: KPA500

Administrator

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

After all the market research, it comes down to intuition. Eric and I
asked a simple question. How cool would be it be if we could pack 500
watts+ and a ultra-low-noise linear supply into an enclosure the same
size as the K3? The answer was obvious to us as well as to our focus
group. We knew it wouldn't be easy, but our talented engineering team--
many of them serious DXers and contesters--jumped at the opportunity.

We think it's an amazing little amp, and we hope some of you will, too.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Edward R Cole

Re: KPA500

In reply to this post by Jay

I am in the same "boat" as it were, having bought the K3/10. If I
were considering the KPA500 then I would be looking for 40-50w driver
for it. That is a 6-dB amp driven by 12w from the K3/10. That ought
to be simple to make. So will K3 roll out one? Or an entrepreneur
ham come up with one? Price ought to be in $125-150 bracket since no
filtering is needed if used with the following KPA500.

I chose another path and bought the 300w EB-27A CCI amp that requires
18w for full output. MY total costs will be <$500 and I probably
could make them for resale at $550. Stay tuned on that later comment ;-)

I haven't built the EB-27A, yet, but will have results on my website
when it is done later this fall/winter.

73, Ed - KL7UW

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:10:48 -0600
From: Phil Townsend <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500
To: Greg <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

So I got me a ten watt k3... I like it... It is very good. It works.
And I'm thinking of a KPA500.
But to run the KPA500 I gotta get the 100 watt add-on first.
Hummmm.... Is that a deal breaker? Might be. If I don't get the
hundred water then I can't get fully output.!.?&-?xxx
So the true cost of the kPA500 is way more... For me with just ten
watts. I really only want ten watts. But when I feel the need, the
need for speed (yeah I had to say it) I would like to hit the big
lever marked kill and blast them out of their socks.

I would like to be able to upgrade with out the interim 100 watter.
Yeah, I know, i won't work but I can ask those guys who sweat solder
and cash flow and you never know they just might be able to do it.
To me the K2 was a total mind melt...and the K3 is beyond my wildest
dreams. Quite an upgrade from the old Heathkits I used to build... No
disrespect meant the hotwaters and Indians that may be still lurking.

Phil
Santa Fe

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 144-QRT*, 432-100w, 1296-QRT*, 3400-fall 2010
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================
*temp
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