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KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

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W7GJ, Lance

KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

Knowing that there are a number of KX3 owners who are interested in an computer
interface that does not rely on VOX mode to transmit CW or digital modes from the
computer, I have outlined the interface that I am using here:

http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/KX3.htm

Good luck and happy DXing! VY 73, Lance

--
Lance Collister, W7GJ
(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073
USA
TEL: (406) 626-5728
QTH: DN27ub
URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
Windows Messenger: [hidden email]
Skype: lanceW7GJ
2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME
email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web
page (above)!

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Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

On 7/27/2012 11:57 AM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
> I have outlined the interface that I am using here:

Looks like a great solution, Lance. Just enough, not overkill. Thanks
for posting.

73, Jim K9YC
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Barry K3NDM

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by W7GJ, Lance

Tigertronics is peddling the SignaLink. I've been using it for a long
time on my TS-50 with the idea to use it on my KX3. I checked last night
and found that they have the cables and the KX3 jumper plug. I've really
been happy with this unit and suggest that you have a look. I paid $100
which included the cable I needed.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

On 7/27/2012 2:57 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
> Knowing that there are a number of KX3 owners who are interested in an computer
> interface that does not rely on VOX mode to transmit CW or digital modes from the
> computer, I have outlined the interface that I am using here:
>
> http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/KX3.htm
>
> Good luck and happy DXing! VY 73, Lance
>

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

Signalink USB is nothing more than a repackaged $10 USB audio dongle.
It does not provide any USB to serial functions and no access to TxD,
RxD, DTR, RTS. Lance specifically needed TxD and RxD for computer
logging and RTS for advanced PTT.

The alternative to the WestMountain Radio Nomic is a Buxcomm Rascal
with a custom serial cable that splits RxD/TxD to the rig and DTR/RTS
to the Rascal then to the rig.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/27/2012 4:05 PM, Barry LaZar wrote:

> Tigertronics is peddling the SignaLink. I've been using it for a long
> time on my TS-50 with the idea to use it on my KX3. I checked last night
> and found that they have the cables and the KX3 jumper plug. I've really
> been happy with this unit and suggest that you have a look. I paid $100
> which included the cable I needed.
>
> 73,
> Barry
> K3NDM
>
> On 7/27/2012 2:57 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
>> Knowing that there are a number of KX3 owners who are interested in an computer
>> interface that does not rely on VOX mode to transmit CW or digital modes from the
>> computer, I have outlined the interface that I am using here:
>>
>> http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/KX3.htm
>>
>> Good luck and happy DXing! VY 73, Lance
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Holger Schurig-2

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

I wonder why so many designs talk about the "Microphone" input on the PC.

Is a "Line in" that uncommon?
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

With the "rush" by hams to using laptops for their ham station (lack of
room is an often cited reason), they will find no Line-in - only mic-in,
and that mic-in is not stereo either.

While I believe that a desktop computer sitting under the operating
table with real serial ports and real soundcards will serve the ham
community much better than laptops, my words seem to fall on deaf ears.

With a desktop on the floor, you can choose the monitor size that fits
your operating position and you can even use a wireless mouse and
keyboard if cables are a problem.

So --- the move to "Microphone" rather than Line-In is being caused by
the more frequent use of laptops in the ham station.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/27/2012 4:55 PM, Holger Schurig wrote:
> I wonder why so many designs talk about the "Microphone" input on the PC.
>
> Is a "Line in" that uncommon?
>

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Jim AB3CV

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

It has become increasingly common to do "jack sensing" and provide
MIC/LINEIN on the same input. Check your laptop specs to see if it's
offered.

jim ab3cv
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Barry K3NDM

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Joe,
The SignaLink uses the radio's PTT on the mic connector to switch from rx to tx. That is all that is really required. However, it does have a built in sound card that does work better than the one in my laptop. All power is taken from the USB connection to the computer. It's a complete, easy to set up and use package. With the additional sound card, I can do other things. So, I'd say your characterization is a bit off.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:32:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

Signalink USB is nothing more than a repackaged $10 USB audio dongle.
It does not provide any USB to serial functions and no access to TxD,
RxD, DTR, RTS. Lance specifically needed TxD and RxD for computer
logging and RTS for advanced PTT.

The alternative to the WestMountain Radio Nomic is a Buxcomm Rascal
with a custom serial cable that splits RxD/TxD to the rig and DTR/RTS
to the Rascal then to the rig.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/27/2012 4:05 PM, Barry LaZar wrote:

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Barry K3NDM

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Holger Schurig-2

Holger,
Laptops, which are very popular, may have only 2 jacks, headphone and mic/line in. My Toshiba is set up that way . The input can be either mic or line in; I can't have both.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Holger Schurig" <[hidden email]>
To: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:55:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

I wonder why so many designs talk about the "Microphone" input on the PC.

Is a "Line in" that uncommon?
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Barry K3NDM

> The SignaLink uses the radio's PTT on the mic connector to switch
> from rx to tx.

The "PTT" is nothing more than a diode, capacitor and NPN transistor
that forms a crude VOX circuit and can be added to the $9.99 USB
audio dongle for about $2.00 by any competent amateur.

That "PTT" does nothing to provide early PTT to switch amplifiers or
preamplifiers, etc. that the EME folks require (and what W7GJ is
trying to accomplish).

> So, I'd say your characterization is a bit off.

No, my characterization is dead on the money - overpriced, and under
performing in many aspects - particularly if one needs serial or USB
control of K3 or KX3 frequency and positive computer controlled PTT
for amplifier/preamp switching.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/27/2012 8:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Joe,
> The SignaLink uses the radio's PTT on the mic connector to switch from rx to tx. That is all that is really required. However, it does have a built in sound card that does work better than the one in my laptop. All power is taken from the USB connection to the computer. It's a complete, easy to set up and use package. With the additional sound card, I can do other things. So, I'd say your characterization is a bit off.
>
> 73,
> Barry
> K3NDM
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:32:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes
>
>
> Signalink USB is nothing more than a repackaged $10 USB audio dongle.
> It does not provide any USB to serial functions and no access to TxD,
> RxD, DTR, RTS. Lance specifically needed TxD and RxD for computer
> logging and RTS for advanced PTT.
>
> The alternative to the WestMountain Radio Nomic is a Buxcomm Rascal
> with a custom serial cable that splits RxD/TxD to the rig and DTR/RTS
> to the Rascal then to the rig.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 7/27/2012 4:05 PM, Barry LaZar wrote:
>> Tigertronics is peddling the SignaLink. I've been using it for a long
>> time on my TS-50 with the idea to use it on my KX3. I checked last night
>> and found that they have the cables and the KX3 jumper plug. I've really
>> been happy with this unit and suggest that you have a look. I paid $100
>> which included the cable I needed.
>>
>> 73,
>> Barry
>> K3NDM
>>
>> On 7/27/2012 2:57 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
>>> Knowing that there are a number of KX3 owners who are interested in an computer
>>> interface that does not rely on VOX mode to transmit CW or digital modes from the
>>> computer, I have outlined the interface that I am using here:
>>>
>>> http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/KX3.htm
>>>
>>> Good luck and happy DXing! VY 73, Lance
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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W7GJ, Lance

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Barry K3NDM

As usual, Joe is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! If I had a dime for every EMEe'r who was had
troubles created by trying to use a Signalink, I would be sending this email from the
beach in the Carib! I NEVER recommend them to anyone who is serious about running
any kind of power on digital modes because of the cheap and dirty way they try to
claim that they have PTT control, when all they really have is VOX. What I was
talking about, and what most EME'ers and serious VHF'ers require, is an ADVANCE PTT
command (which is very thoughtfully provided by WSJT programs) so that everything can
be switched and settled into place BEFORE any signals are generated by the
transmitter. If all you do is HF QRP, then the Signalink is probably all you will
ever need. If you ever go QRO, it will pay you to do it right the first time and get
a fully capable interface! GL and VY 73, Lance

On 7/28/2012 12:10 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Joe,
> The SignaLink uses the radio's PTT on the mic connector to switch from rx to tx. That is all that is really required. However, it does have a built in sound card that does work better than the one in my laptop. All power is taken from the USB connection to the computer. It's a complete, easy to set up and use package. With the additional sound card, I can do other things. So, I'd say your characterization is a bit off.
>
> 73,
> Barry
> K3NDM
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:32:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes
>
>
> Signalink USB is nothing more than a repackaged $10 USB audio dongle.
> It does not provide any USB to serial functions and no access to TxD,
> RxD, DTR, RTS. Lance specifically needed TxD and RxD for computer
> logging and RTS for advanced PTT.
>
> The alternative to the WestMountain Radio Nomic is a Buxcomm Rascal
> with a custom serial cable that splits RxD/TxD to the rig and DTR/RTS
> to the Rascal then to the rig.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 7/27/2012 4:05 PM, Barry LaZar wrote:
>> Tigertronics is peddling the SignaLink. I've been using it for a long
>> time on my TS-50 with the idea to use it on my KX3. I checked last night
>> and found that they have the cables and the KX3 jumper plug. I've really
>> been happy with this unit and suggest that you have a look. I paid $100
>> which included the cable I needed.
>>
>> 73,
>> Barry
>> K3NDM
>>
>> On 7/27/2012 2:57 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
>>> Knowing that there are a number of KX3 owners who are interested in an computer
>>> interface that does not rely on VOX mode to transmit CW or digital modes from the
>>> computer, I have outlined the interface that I am using here:
>>>
>>> http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/KX3.htm
>>>
>>> Good luck and happy DXing! VY 73, Lance
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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--
Lance Collister, W7GJ
(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073
USA
TEL: (406) 626-5728
QTH: DN27ub
URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
Windows Messenger: [hidden email]
Skype: lanceW7GJ
2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME
email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web
page (above)!

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Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

On 7/27/2012 6:03 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
> If I had a dime for every EMEe'r who was had
> troubles created by trying to use a Signalink,

In addition to the deficiencies Joe and Lance have noted, the Signalink
also has Pin One problems, which are a well known cause of RFI, hum, and
buzz. These guys are smart engineers. We should be paying attention to
them.

73, Jim K9YC

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Holger Schurig-2

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

What do you mean with "Pin 1 problem" ? On SUB-D-25 pin 1 is shield,
so I guess you refer to shielding/ground loop problems? The now much
more common SUB-D-9 only has data ground, on pin 5... and pin 1 there
is DCD.
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

"Pin 1" problem refers to an issue originally identified in professional
and broadcast audio equipment where "pin 1" of the XLR connector was not
connected directly to the shielded case *at the connector* but instead
connected to the circuit common elsewhere in the device in question.

> On SUB-D-25 pin 1 is shield, so I guess you refer to shielding/ground
> loop problems? The now much more common SUB-D-9 only has data ground,
> on pin 5... and pin 1 there is DCD.

A properly installed DB25 (RS-232C) bonds the shell, pin 1 (shield) and
pin 7 (signal ground) to the circuit board ground plane and device case
at the connector. A properly installed DB9 (EIA/TIA 574) bonds the
shell and pin 5 (signal ground) to the circuit board ground plane and
device case at the connector.

Any device that does not bond the shell of a DB series connector and
all "grounds"/signal returns to the chassis and circuit board ground
plane *at the connector* has a potential "pin 1 problem". In the case
of the Signalink USB, the "pin 1 problem" is on the RJ-45 since both
audio and circuit (PTT) returns float on the circuit board before
returning to the ground plane via long/thin traces. The device
violates proper design principles by *not* properly bonding all
"grounds" and circuit returns.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/28/2012 5:55 AM, Holger Schurig wrote:

> What do you mean with "Pin 1 problem" ? On SUB-D-25 pin 1 is shield,
> so I guess you refer to shielding/ground loop problems? The now much
> more common SUB-D-9 only has data ground, on pin 5... and pin 1 there
> is DCD.
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

Barry K3NDM

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Like I said your characterization is a bit off. The built in sound card
buys you a lot.

Second if frequency is a control is a must, my computer can do it using
any number of software packages. One of those packages is NaP3. It turns
your radio into a full bore SDR with computer control. If this isn't
satisfactory, one of the present PowerSDR packages allows VAC usage.
Once that is set up, you can do what ever you want with complete
computer control. It may take a bit of playing around, but it can work.
However, you will definitely need two sound cards, and a second monitor
wouldn't hurt either.

All of the dongles I have seen are very simplistic, ergo cheap. This
approach is a little more expensive, but it allows a greater range of
possibilities. I still stand by what I said and suggest this approach.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

On 7/27/2012 8:39 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> > The SignaLink uses the radio's PTT on the mic connector to switch
> > from rx to tx.
>
> The "PTT" is nothing more than a diode, capacitor and NPN transistor
> that forms a crude VOX circuit and can be added to the $9.99 USB
> audio dongle for about $2.00 by any competent amateur.
>
> That "PTT" does nothing to provide early PTT to switch amplifiers or
> preamplifiers, etc. that the EME folks require (and what W7GJ is
> trying to accomplish).
>
>> So, I'd say your characterization is a bit off.
>
> No, my characterization is dead on the money - overpriced, and under
> performing in many aspects - particularly if one needs serial or USB
> control of K3 or KX3 frequency and positive computer controlled PTT
> for amplifier/preamp switching.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 7/27/2012 8:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Joe,
>> The SignaLink uses the radio's PTT on the mic connector to switch
>> from rx to tx. That is all that is really required. However, it does
>> have a built in sound card that does work better than the one in my
>> laptop. All power is taken from the USB connection to the computer.
>> It's a complete, easy to set up and use package. With the additional
>> sound card, I can do other things. So, I'd say your characterization
>> is a bit off.
>>
>> 73,
>> Barry
>> K3NDM
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:32:59 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes
>>
>>
>> Signalink USB is nothing more than a repackaged $10 USB audio dongle.
>> It does not provide any USB to serial functions and no access to TxD,
>> RxD, DTR, RTS. Lance specifically needed TxD and RxD for computer
>> logging and RTS for advanced PTT.
>>
>> The alternative to the WestMountain Radio Nomic is a Buxcomm Rascal
>> with a custom serial cable that splits RxD/TxD to the rig and DTR/RTS
>> to the Rascal then to the rig.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 7/27/2012 4:05 PM, Barry LaZar wrote:
>>> Tigertronics is peddling the SignaLink. I've been using it for a long
>>> time on my TS-50 with the idea to use it on my KX3. I checked last
>>> night
>>> and found that they have the cables and the KX3 jumper plug. I've
>>> really
>>> been happy with this unit and suggest that you have a look. I paid $100
>>> which included the cable I needed.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Barry
>>> K3NDM
>>>
>>> On 7/27/2012 2:57 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
>>>> Knowing that there are a number of KX3 owners who are interested in
>>>> an computer
>>>> interface that does not rely on VOX mode to transmit CW or digital
>>>> modes from the
>>>> computer, I have outlined the interface that I am using here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/KX3.htm
>>>>
>>>> Good luck and happy DXing! VY 73, Lance
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Barry K3NDM

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by W7GJ, Lance

I see. The real issue is amplifier turn on timing. As I don't use an
amplifier as QRO to me is a 100 Watts. I can't address the issue from
experience. However, I suspect that there is an easy fix since all high
power users face the same issue, particularly on CW. Someone needs to
check to see is there is a delay built in to the PTT function the allows
the amplifier to turn on when the PTT is keyed in proper sequence. I
know this is not an issue with my Orion II, and I infer from those who
do operate at the full legal limit around my neighborhood that this
issue is a non-issue; a lot of them are using FT-1000s and K3s

After mulling this over as I write this response, I come away with the
idea that a parameter in the transmitter keying menu has not been
changed to account for the amplifier turn on delay. Someone should check
that.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

On 7/27/2012 9:03 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:

> As usual, Joe is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! If I had a dime for every EMEe'r
> who was had troubles created by trying to use a Signalink, I would be
> sending this email from the beach in the Carib! I NEVER recommend
> them to anyone who is serious about running any kind of power on
> digital modes because of the cheap and dirty way they try to claim
> that they have PTT control, when all they really have is VOX. What I
> was talking about, and what most EME'ers and serious VHF'ers require,
> is an ADVANCE PTT command (which is very thoughtfully provided by WSJT
> programs) so that everything can be switched and settled into place
> BEFORE any signals are generated by the transmitter. If all you do
> is HF QRP, then the Signalink is probably all you will ever need. If
> you ever go QRO, it will pay you to do it right the first time and get
> a fully capable interface! GL and VY 73, Lance
>
> On 7/28/2012 12:10 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Joe,
>> The SignaLink uses the radio's PTT on the mic connector to switch
>> from rx to tx. That is all that is really required. However, it does
>> have a built in sound card that does work better than the one in my
>> laptop. All power is taken from the USB connection to the computer.
>> It's a complete, easy to set up and use package. With the additional
>> sound card, I can do other things. So, I'd say your characterization
>> is a bit off.
>>
>> 73,
>> Barry
>> K3NDM
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:32:59 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes
>>
>>
>> Signalink USB is nothing more than a repackaged $10 USB audio dongle.
>> It does not provide any USB to serial functions and no access to TxD,
>> RxD, DTR, RTS. Lance specifically needed TxD and RxD for computer
>> logging and RTS for advanced PTT.
>>
>> The alternative to the WestMountain Radio Nomic is a Buxcomm Rascal
>> with a custom serial cable that splits RxD/TxD to the rig and DTR/RTS
>> to the Rascal then to the rig.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 7/27/2012 4:05 PM, Barry LaZar wrote:
>>> Tigertronics is peddling the SignaLink. I've been using it for a long
>>> time on my TS-50 with the idea to use it on my KX3. I checked last
>>> night
>>> and found that they have the cables and the KX3 jumper plug. I've
>>> really
>>> been happy with this unit and suggest that you have a look. I paid $100
>>> which included the cable I needed.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Barry
>>> K3NDM
>>>
>>> On 7/27/2012 2:57 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
>>>> Knowing that there are a number of KX3 owners who are interested in
>>>> an computer
>>>> interface that does not rely on VOX mode to transmit CW or digital
>>>> modes from the
>>>> computer, I have outlined the interface that I am using here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/KX3.htm
>>>>
>>>> Good luck and happy DXing! VY 73, Lance
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>

n7ws

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by W7GJ, Lance

Although I respect the comments from the experts (and Lance and I worked on two-meters thirty years ago) I must say that I use a Signallink on HF RTTY running a K3 and a venerable Drake L-4B without issue.

If I was still on EME then of course I would have the full sequenced keying hardware. The Signallink is exactly what is described below, and I realize that I can, and have used the K3, with the built-in soundcard on my laptop but I have other uses for that card. Furthermore, I acquired the Signalink when I was using my prior transceiver so it's on hand.

So despite its alleged failings, the Signalink has some usefulness in some applications.

Wes N7WS

--- On Fri, 7/27/12, Lance Collister, W7GJ <[hidden email]> wrote:

As usual, Joe is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! If I had a dime for every EMEe'r who was had
troubles created by trying to use a Signalink, I would be sending this email from the
beach in the Carib! I NEVER recommend them to anyone who is serious about running
any kind of power on digital modes because of the cheap and dirty way they try to
claim that they have PTT control, when all they really have is VOX. What I was
talking about, and what most EME'ers and serious VHF'ers require, is an ADVANCE PTT
command (which is very thoughtfully provided by WSJT programs) so that everything can
be switched and settled into place BEFORE any signals are generated by the
transmitter. If all you do is HF QRP, then the Signalink is probably all you will
ever need. If you ever go QRO, it will pay you to do it right the first time and get
a fully capable interface! GL and VY 73, Lance

On 7/28/2012 12:10 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Joe,
> The SignaLink uses the radio's PTT on the mic connector to switch from rx to tx. That is all that is really required. However, it does have a built in sound card that does work better than the one in my laptop. All power is taken from the USB connection to the computer. It's a complete, easy to set up and use package. With the additional sound card, I can do other things. So, I'd say your characterization is a bit off.
>
> 73,
> Barry
> K3NDM
>

> Signalink USB is nothing more than a repackaged $10 USB audio dongle.
> It does not provide any USB to serial functions and no access to TxD,
> RxD, DTR, RTS. Lance specifically needed TxD and RxD for computer
> logging and RTS for advanced PTT.
>
> The alternative to the WestMountain Radio Nomic is a Buxcomm Rascal
> with a custom serial cable that splits RxD/TxD to the rig and DTR/RTS
> to the Rascal then to the rig.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 7/27/2012 4:05 PM, Barry LaZar wrote:
>> Tigertronics is peddling the SignaLink. I've been using it for a long
>> time on my TS-50 with the idea to use it on my KX3. I checked last night
>> and found that they have the cables and the KX3 jumper plug. I've really
>> been happy with this unit and suggest that you have a look. I paid $100
>> which included the cable I needed.
>>
>> 73,
>> Barry
>> K3NDM
>>
>> On 7/27/2012 2:57 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
>>> Knowing that there are a number of KX3 owners who are interested in an computer
>>> interface that does not rely on VOX mode to transmit CW or digital modes from the
>>> computer, I have outlined the interface that I am using here:
>>>
>>> http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/KX3.htm
>>>
>>> Good luck and happy DXing! VY 73, Lance
>>>
>>

Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

In reply to this post by Barry K3NDM

On 7/28/2012 9:36 AM, Barry LaZar wrote:
> The real issue is amplifier turn on timing.

And the switching of relays for mast-mounted preamps used in serious
VHF/UHF stations.

> As I don't use an
> amplifier as QRO to me is a 100 Watts. I can't address the issue from
> experience. However, I suspect that there is an easy fix since all high
> power users face the same issue, particularly on CW.

But it is NOT an issue for ALL those who use power amps, it is an issue
for those who use badly engineered power amps with slow relays! It is
NOT an issue for my me with my good quality Ten Tec amps, designed c.a.
1980, which use good vacuum relays, nor with my Elecraft amp, nor, I
suspect, is it an issue with most Alpha and ACOM products.

The problem is with CHEAP amps -- ever look inside an Ameritron? -- and
with home builders playing it CHEAP. Example: I recently posted asking
about build quality of relay switching systems for antennas, and more
than half of the replys included phrases like "you can use so and so's
much CHEAPER relays" and "so and so's system is much cheaper." Mom and
Dad were both accountants, but they also taught me the difference
between quality and junk, and when it was worth spending ENOUGH to do it
rignt.

Now, the nature of some relays is such that fast switching is not
consistent with good RF performance, and I suspect that the high quality
coax relays that Lance and others are talking about to switch preamps
and to switch 2M and higher power amps are inherently not that fast.
But for conventional ham power amps at HF, decent relays ARE fast enough
to switch with the delay times provided by rigs like the K3 and
FT1000-series.

73, Jim K9YC

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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Barry K3NDM

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

Jim,
Yeah, I knew that there was a problem with many of the amplifiers. I just don't know how pervasive the problem is. I know Tentec and a few others have a way to deal with the problem. And, I just haven't needed to deal with the issue since I was playing with 10KW amplifiers when I was working for TMC down in Virginia more than 40 years ago. I knew there was a reason I didn't want to go high power. ;-)

I totally forgot about the preamp switching problem. That too is something that I haven't needed to deal with in a lot of years. Way back when, most of us used preamps just ahead of our downconverters. There were a few smarter hams around who figured out the the transmission line from the antenna to the preamp was adding dramatically to the noise figure. It was they who started to mast mount their preamps; it was the same crowd that used the noise figure equation and were smart enough to know that line loss = negative gain. It's terrible to get old and forget those early lessons.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:56:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

On 7/28/2012 9:36 AM, Barry LaZar wrote:
> The real issue is amplifier turn on timing.

And the switching of relays for mast-mounted preamps used in serious
VHF/UHF stations.

> As I don't use an
> amplifier as QRO to me is a 100 Watts. I can't address the issue from
> experience. However, I suspect that there is an easy fix since all high
> power users face the same issue, particularly on CW.

But it is NOT an issue for ALL those who use power amps, it is an issue
for those who use badly engineered power amps with slow relays! It is
NOT an issue for my me with my good quality Ten Tec amps, designed c.a.
1980, which use good vacuum relays, nor with my Elecraft amp, nor, I
suspect, is it an issue with most Alpha and ACOM products.

The problem is with CHEAP amps -- ever look inside an Ameritron? -- and
with home builders playing it CHEAP. Example: I recently posted asking
about build quality of relay switching systems for antennas, and more
than half of the replys included phrases like "you can use so and so's
much CHEAPER relays" and "so and so's system is much cheaper." Mom and
Dad were both accountants, but they also taught me the difference
between quality and junk, and when it was worth spending ENOUGH to do it
rignt.

Now, the nature of some relays is such that fast switching is not
consistent with good RF performance, and I suspect that the high quality
coax relays that Lance and others are talking about to switch preamps
and to switch 2M and higher power amps are inherently not that fast.
But for conventional ham power amps at HF, decent relays ARE fast enough
to switch with the delay times provided by rigs like the K3 and
FT1000-series.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Igor Sokolov-2

Re: KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

Jim,
Nowadays even SO stations are much more complicated then just transceiver
and linear amp. There are filters, RX antennas, power splitters in stacks
which need to be controlled and require additional delays. 8ms is very often
not enough to compensate for all the delays. I had to build small circuit
that makes use of inhibit signal in my K3 to extend rigid 8 ms built into
K3 although it would be more logical to have programmable TX delay built
into the transceiver. For SO2R the problem is even more complicated because
of the need for lock out. Now think of MS station with 4 or 5 ops sharing
antennas and amps and using lock out. How would they do with just 8ms or
worse QSK only TRX?

73, Igor UA9CDC

----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes

> Jim,
> Yeah, I knew that there was a problem with many of the amplifiers. I just
> don't know how pervasive the problem is. I know Tentec and a few others
> have a way to deal with the problem. And, I just haven't needed to deal
> with the issue since I was playing with 10KW amplifiers when I was working
> for TMC down in Virginia more than 40 years ago. I knew there was a reason
> I didn't want to go high power. ;-)
>
> I totally forgot about the preamp switching problem. That too is something
> that I haven't needed to deal with in a lot of years. Way back when, most
> of us used preamps just ahead of our downconverters. There were a few
> smarter hams around who figured out the the transmission line from the
> antenna to the preamp was adding dramatically to the noise figure. It was
> they who started to mast mount their preamps; it was the same crowd that
> used the noise figure equation and were smart enough to know that line
> loss = negative gain. It's terrible to get old and forget those early
> lessons.
>
> 73,
> Barry
> K3NDM
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:56:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Computer Interface for digital modes
>
> On 7/28/2012 9:36 AM, Barry LaZar wrote:
>> The real issue is amplifier turn on timing.
>
> And the switching of relays for mast-mounted preamps used in serious
> VHF/UHF stations.
>
>> As I don't use an
>> amplifier as QRO to me is a 100 Watts. I can't address the issue from
>> experience. However, I suspect that there is an easy fix since all high
>> power users face the same issue, particularly on CW.
>
> But it is NOT an issue for ALL those who use power amps, it is an issue
> for those who use badly engineered power amps with slow relays! It is
> NOT an issue for my me with my good quality Ten Tec amps, designed c.a.
> 1980, which use good vacuum relays, nor with my Elecraft amp, nor, I
> suspect, is it an issue with most Alpha and ACOM products.
>
> The problem is with CHEAP amps -- ever look inside an Ameritron? -- and
> with home builders playing it CHEAP. Example: I recently posted asking
> about build quality of relay switching systems for antennas, and more
> than half of the replys included phrases like "you can use so and so's
> much CHEAPER relays" and "so and so's system is much cheaper." Mom and
> Dad were both accountants, but they also taught me the difference
> between quality and junk, and when it was worth spending ENOUGH to do it
> rignt.
>
> Now, the nature of some relays is such that fast switching is not
> consistent with good RF performance, and I suspect that the high quality
> coax relays that Lance and others are talking about to switch preamps
> and to switch 2M and higher power amps are inherently not that fast.
> But for conventional ham power amps at HF, decent relays ARE fast enough
> to switch with the delay times provided by rigs like the K3 and
> FT1000-series.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html