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Low headphone audio level

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Pete Smith N4ZR

Low headphone audio level

I have just gotten around to trying headphones with my new K3, and am
surprised by how much audio gain is required for an adequate listening
level with my old Heil BN-10 (?) headset. I often find it at 2-3
o'clock. Is this normal? Output from the internal speaker seems normal
relative to the gain control - rarely requiring beyond 10 o'clock.

A tangentially related question - when I plug into the headphone jack,
it appears that I have to push the phone plug into the jack quite firmly
before the speak is cut off. Again, normal?

--
73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

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ussv dharma

Re: Low headphone audio level

Peter:
I had exactly same problem, finally sole my heil headphones for twenty dollars , bought the ones advertised in QST for forty nine dollars and everything is fine....impedance of heil does not match rig.

If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm AFA9SM USSV DHARMA

--- On Fri, 6/25/10, Pete Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Pete Smith <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Low headphone audio level
> To: "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Friday, June 25, 2010, 8:53 AM
> I have just gotten around to trying
> headphones with my new K3, and am
> surprised by how much audio gain is required for an
> adequate listening
> level with my old Heil BN-10 (?) headset. I often
> find it at 2-3
> o'clock. Is this normal? Output from the
> internal speaker seems normal
> relative to the gain control - rarely requiring beyond 10
> o'clock.
>
> A tangentially related question - when I plug into the
> headphone jack,
> it appears that I have to push the phone plug into the jack
> quite firmly
> before the speak is cut off. Again, normal?
>
> --
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
> www.conteststations.com
> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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KK7P

Re: Low headphone audio level

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

> A tangentially related question - when I plug into the headphone jack,
> it appears that I have to push the phone plug into the jack quite firmly
> before the speak is cut off. Again, normal?
>

There is a delay of a second or so between when the headphones are
detected and the speaker amplifier cuts off. This delay may cause you
to think you need to press more firmly :-)

73,

Lyle KK7P

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John_N1JM

Re: Low headphone audio level

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

Have you tried to change AF gain in the menu?

Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: Low headphone audio level

It is already set on HI.

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 6/25/2010 4:04 PM, N1JM wrote:
> Have you tried to change AF gain in the menu?
>
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Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: Low headphone audio level

In reply to this post by KK7P

Ah, I see - it also seems as if one side sometimes cuts in on the
headphones before the other, also contributing to the impression that
maybe the plug isn't in all the way.

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 6/25/2010 3:23 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote:

>
>> A tangentially related question - when I plug into the headphone
>> jack, it appears that I have to push the phone plug into the jack
>> quite firmly before the speak is cut off. Again, normal?
>
> There is a delay of a second or so between when the headphones are
> detected and the speaker amplifier cuts off. This delay may cause you
> to think you need to press more firmly :-)
>
> 73,
>
> Lyle KK7P
>
>
>

John_N1JM

Re: Low headphone audio level

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

I have a ProSet and it is fine at around 10 o'clock. I wonder if it an
impedance thing?

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Pete Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It is already set on HI.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
> www.conteststations.com
> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
>
>
> On 6/25/2010 4:04 PM, N1JM wrote:
>
>> Have you tried to change AF gain in the menu?
>>
>>
>

John_N1JM

Re: Low headphone audio level

And my AF gain is set to low.

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:50 PM, John Merrill <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have a ProSet and it is fine at around 10 o'clock. I wonder if it an
> impedance thing?
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Pete Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> It is already set on HI.
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>
>> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
>> www.conteststations.com
>> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
>> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/25/2010 4:04 PM, N1JM wrote:
>>
>>> Have you tried to change AF gain in the menu?
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Low headphone audio level

In reply to this post by John_N1JM

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:50:30 -0700, John Merrill wrote:

>I have a ProSet and it is fine at around 10 o'clock. I wonder if it an
>impedance thing?

It's a combination of impedance and sensitivity. Headphone output stages
are essentially constant voltage devices -- that is, they have a low
output impedance -- but good designers add a small value of resistor in
series so that the output devices don't fail when accidentally driving a
short circuit.

Headphones are made in a range of impedances from about 8 ohms to about
600 ohms. Most pro headphones are in the range of 50-200 ohms. The higher
the inpedance, the more voltage it takes to drive them. But the higher
the impedance, the less current the headphone amp needs to supply. In
other words, 600 ohm phones need much more VOLTAGE to get the same power
as 100 ohm phones.

In general, a headphone output will be happy with any headphone impedance
equal to or greater than its rated load.

The bottom line question is, can you make the headphones loud enough with
the audio gain control to satisfy your ears without audible distortion?
If the answer is yes, be happy. If it isn't consider buying a new set of
cans. The Yamaha CM500 is a winner, under $50.

73, Jim Brown K9YC

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John_N1JM

Re: Low headphone audio level

I wish Heil would put the headphone impedances on his website. He must supply a wide variance in headphone impedances with his boom headsets, maybe amongst the same models.

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Low headphone audio level

Judging from the various replies I have seen in the past, it would seem
that the drivers used in Heil headsets do vary.
Heil is very sparse with information about the amateur grade equipment,
other than pictures and good words. His Pro line is spec'ed better, I
guess those customers are not so inclined to buy on pretty pictures and
a name.

As Jim Brown indicated, one can do better elsewhere and at lower prices.

Sorry, but my cynical side is showing today!

73,
Don W3FPR

N1JM wrote:
> I wish Heil would put the headphone impedances on his website. He must supply
> a wide variance in headphone impedances with his boom headsets, maybe
> amongst the same models.
>
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John_N1JM

Re: Low headphone audio level

What maybe curious is that I bet Pete used that same headset on another ( JA) radio with no problems.

Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: Low headphone audio level

The answer is yes - TS-930 and Mark 5.

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 6/25/2010 7:06 PM, N1JM wrote:
> What maybe curious is that I bet Pete used that same headset on another ( JA)
> radio with no problems.
>
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Mike K2MK

Re: Low headphone audio level

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

Hi Pete,

I have the same problem with the Heil Proset that I purchased from Elecraft. I also have a Sennheiser HD280 Pro which has a higher output but is not as comfortable as the Proset.

I personally think the headphone AF output should be higher. (Yes I have the config on HI). Admittedly my hearing is not as good as it used to be. If you want to see how it could sound enter this code several times in the K3 Utility under the Command Tester tab.

!66;

Each time you enter it the headphone level will increase slightly. But this change is not remembered through a power cycle. I've asked for this to become a config choice on this reflector and in direct e-mails to Lyle and Wayne. (Wayne as recently as 5/18 but no response). I guess I'm the only one requesting it.

To solve the problem I plug the headphones into the rear speaker jack. It solves the problem but if I want to use the internal speaker I have to pull the plug out. If you do this be sure to set CONFIG:SPKRS to 2 for stereo.

73,
Mike K2MK

Pete Smith N4ZR wrote

I have just gotten around to trying headphones with my new K3, and am
surprised by how much audio gain is required for an adequate listening
level with my old Heil BN-10 (?) headset. I often find it at 2-3
o'clock. Is this normal? Output from the internal speaker seems normal
relative to the gain control - rarely requiring beyond 10 o'clock.

A tangentially related question - when I plug into the headphone jack,
it appears that I have to push the phone plug into the jack quite firmly
before the speak is cut off. Again, normal?

--
73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

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N7US

Re: Low headphone audio level

You might consider plugging a stereo switchbox into the rear speaker jack
and plugging the speaker(s) and the headphones into the switchbox. I prefer
that because it's easier and involves no wear on the radio's jacks. I use
an old Radio Shack "Stereo Source Audio Selector (#42-2112). That one has
three outputs so I use stereo computer speakers, a Heil Proset Plus, and a
Sennheiser HD-280, which is my favorite.

Jim N7US

-----Original Message-----

Hi Pete,

To solve the problem I plug the headphones into the rear speaker jack. It
solves the problem but if I want to use the internal speaker I have to pull
the plug out. If you do this be sure to set CONFIG:SPKRS to 2 for stereo.

73,
Mike K2MK

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Mike Reublin

Re: Low headphone audio level

In reply to this post by Mike K2MK

I have the Yamaha CM5000 headset plugged into the rear panel, and toggle
the external speakers with a macro.

73, Mike NF4L

Mike K2MK wrote:

> Hi Pete,
>
> I have the same problem with the Heil Proset that I purchased from Elecraft.
> I also have a Sennheiser HD280 Pro which has a higher output but is not as
> comfortable as the Proset.
>
> I personally think the headphone AF output should be higher. (Yes I have the
> config on HI). Admittedly my hearing is not as good as it used to be. If you
> want to see how it could sound enter this code several times in the K3
> Utility under the Command Tester tab.
>
> !66;
>
> Each time you enter it the headphone level will increase slightly. But this
> change is not remembered through a power cycle. I've asked for this to
> become a config choice on this reflector and in direct e-mails to Lyle and
> Wayne. (Wayne as recently as 5/18 but no response). I guess I'm the only one
> requesting it.
>
> To solve the problem I plug the headphones into the rear speaker jack. It
> solves the problem but if I want to use the internal speaker I have to pull
> the plug out. If you do this be sure to set CONFIG:SPKRS to 2 for stereo.
>
> 73,
> Mike K2MK
>
>
>
>
> Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
>
>> I have just gotten around to trying headphones with my new K3, and am
>> surprised by how much audio gain is required for an adequate listening
>> level with my old Heil BN-10 (?) headset. I often find it at 2-3
>> o'clock. Is this normal? Output from the internal speaker seems normal
>> relative to the gain control - rarely requiring beyond 10 o'clock.
>>
>> A tangentially related question - when I plug into the headphone jack,
>> it appears that I have to push the phone plug into the jack quite firmly
>> before the speak is cut off. Again, normal?
>>
>> --
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>
>> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
>> www.conteststations.com
>> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
>> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Mike K2MK

Re: Low headphone audio level

Hi Mike,

We sort of got sidetracked from the original posters remarks. It's about low headphone level on the K3. If the level were a bit higher there would be no need to plug the headphones into the speaker jack. Similarly each pair of headphones you grab seems to have a different level. I have 3 different headphones and don't intend to buy a forth. Naturally the one that is the most comfortable is also the one with the lowest level. And I understand that most people don't seem to have this problem. It might be better hearing or better headphones.

One of my earlier rigs (maybe my FT1000D) had a headphone equalization adjustment that permitted one to adjust the headphone level so that it was not necessary to readjust the volume control when going from speakers to headphones and vice versa. That would be a nice feature on the K3 and would be most effective if it were handled as a CONFIG adjustment.

73,
Mike K2MK

Mike-14 wrote

I have the Yamaha CM5000 headset plugged into the rear panel, and toggle
the external speakers with a macro.

73, Mike NF4L

Mike K2MK wrote:
> Hi Pete,
>
> I have the same problem with the Heil Proset that I purchased from Elecraft.
> I also have a Sennheiser HD280 Pro which has a higher output but is not as
> comfortable as the Proset.
>
> I personally think the headphone AF output should be higher. (Yes I have the
> config on HI). Admittedly my hearing is not as good as it used to be. If you
> want to see how it could sound enter this code several times in the K3
> Utility under the Command Tester tab.
>
> !66;
>
> Each time you enter it the headphone level will increase slightly. But this
> change is not remembered through a power cycle. I've asked for this to
> become a config choice on this reflector and in direct e-mails to Lyle and
> Wayne. (Wayne as recently as 5/18 but no response). I guess I'm the only one
> requesting it.
>
> To solve the problem I plug the headphones into the rear speaker jack. It
> solves the problem but if I want to use the internal speaker I have to pull
> the plug out. If you do this be sure to set CONFIG:SPKRS to 2 for stereo.
>
> 73,
> Mike K2MK
>
>
>
>
> Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
>
>> I have just gotten around to trying headphones with my new K3, and am
>> surprised by how much audio gain is required for an adequate listening
>> level with my old Heil BN-10 (?) headset. I often find it at 2-3
>> o'clock. Is this normal? Output from the internal speaker seems normal
>> relative to the gain control - rarely requiring beyond 10 o'clock.
>>
>> A tangentially related question - when I plug into the headphone jack,
>> it appears that I have to push the phone plug into the jack quite firmly
>> before the speak is cut off. Again, normal?
>>
>> --
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>
>> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
>> www.conteststations.com
>> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
>> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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k6dgw

Re: Low headphone audio level

In reply to this post by John_N1JM

John Merrill wrote:
> I have a ProSet and it is fine at around 10 o'clock. I wonder if it an
> impedance thing?

Left most of my hearing on the other side of the planet one night nearly
a lifetime ago and I had the same problem, even with the menu set on HI.
I use the Heil from Elecraft and my hearing aids don't work with the
cans on. I finally went to the RX EQ and set all the ranges up ten dB.
Pretty well solved the problem for me.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2010 Cal QSO Party 2-3 Oct 2010
- www.cqp.org
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Mike Reublin

Re: Low headphone audio level

In reply to this post by Mike K2MK

True on the sidetracking, but it seems to be a time honored tradition
here. :-)
The fone and speaker jacks on the back are separate.
My remarks were intended to offer an alternative to continually plugging
and unplugging stuff. Aside from the higher audio level at the rear
jack, plugging the mic, fones, and speaker into the rear panel gives an
uncluttered and easier to operate front.

My speakers have a volume control, I like them louder than the fones.

Mike NF4L

Mike K2MK wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> We sort of got sidetracked from the original posters remarks. It's about low
> headphone level on the K3. If the level were a bit higher there would be no
> need to plug the headphones into the speaker jack. Similarly each pair of
> headphones you grab seems to have a different level. I have 3 different
> headphones and don't intend to buy a forth. Naturally the one that is the
> most comfortable is also the one with the lowest level. And I understand
> that most people don't seem to have this problem. It might be better hearing
> or better headphones.
>
> One of my earlier rigs (maybe my FT1000D) had a headphone equalization
> adjustment that permitted one to adjust the headphone level so that it was
> not necessary to readjust the volume control when going from speakers to
> headphones and vice versa. That would be a nice feature on the K3 and would
> be most effective if it were handled as a CONFIG adjustment.
>
>
> 73,
> Mike K2MK
>
>
>
>
> Mike-14 wrote:
>
>> I have the Yamaha CM5000 headset plugged into the rear panel, and toggle
>> the external speakers with a macro.
>>
>> 73, Mike NF4L
>>
>> Mike K2MK wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Pete,
>>>
>>> I have the same problem with the Heil Proset that I purchased from
>>> Elecraft.
>>> I also have a Sennheiser HD280 Pro which has a higher output but is not
>>> as
>>> comfortable as the Proset.
>>>
>>> I personally think the headphone AF output should be higher. (Yes I have
>>> the
>>> config on HI). Admittedly my hearing is not as good as it used to be. If
>>> you
>>> want to see how it could sound enter this code several times in the K3
>>> Utility under the Command Tester tab.
>>>
>>> !66;
>>>
>>> Each time you enter it the headphone level will increase slightly. But
>>> this
>>> change is not remembered through a power cycle. I've asked for this to
>>> become a config choice on this reflector and in direct e-mails to Lyle
>>> and
>>> Wayne. (Wayne as recently as 5/18 but no response). I guess I'm the only
>>> one
>>> requesting it.
>>>
>>> To solve the problem I plug the headphones into the rear speaker jack. It
>>> solves the problem but if I want to use the internal speaker I have to
>>> pull
>>> the plug out. If you do this be sure to set CONFIG:SPKRS to 2 for stereo.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Mike K2MK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have just gotten around to trying headphones with my new K3, and am
>>>> surprised by how much audio gain is required for an adequate listening
>>>> level with my old Heil BN-10 (?) headset. I often find it at 2-3
>>>> o'clock. Is this normal? Output from the internal speaker seems normal
>>>> relative to the gain control - rarely requiring beyond 10 o'clock.
>>>>
>>>> A tangentially related question - when I plug into the headphone jack,
>>>> it appears that I have to push the phone plug into the jack quite firmly
>>>> before the speak is cut off. Again, normal?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>>>
>>>> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
>>>> www.conteststations.com
>>>> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>>>> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
>>>> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>

gd0tep

K3 with Expert 1K-FA, RS232 connections question?

Hello to the group again,

I want to connect my K3 to my 1K-FA amplifier, the amplifier manual isn't to
clear (to me anyway) on the connections that need to be used.

On the amplifier 15pin plug, I use pins 1, 9 & 14, yes it's that simple.

On the K3 RS232 I connect the amplifier pin 1 to K3 pin 3 (I think, I may
have these two crossed)
On the K3 RS232 I connect the amplifier pin 9 to K3 pin 2 (I think, I may
have these two crossed)

And

On the K3 RS232 I connect the amplifier pin 9 to K3 pin 5 as ground

Within the K3 RS232 I need to link the RST and CTS together, well RTS is pin
7 on the K3, but what pin is the CTS????

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

73,
Andy
http://gd0tep.com

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