Elecraft › [HAM]

Power Poles...

Classic

List

Threaded

29 messages Options

John Ragle

Power Poles...

Aside from "Polish Solidarity" this long string of emails about the
Anderson variety only confirms my experience-based opinion that these
connectors are very poorly designed and should be avoided. People I know
who use them in mobile applications tape them together. My K2 experience
with them was grossly unsatisfactory. There are other, better, options
for locking power connectors...

John Ragle -- W1ZI
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Buck - k4ia

Re: Power Poles...

After watching the PP connectors on my K3 wiggle around at Field Day, I
have to question again why Elecraft chose these toads-in-a-tuxedo for a
connector. PP are way over-rated. The only strain relief they provide is when
they come apart - which is often. I suppose we could call that defect an
"undocumented feature." A simple molex would have been fine and a whole
lot more secure.

But not to start a flame war over PPs, I'll stay positive. Anyone have
any ideas on how to better secure the PP in the K3? Mine wiggles and I am
thinking about some hot glue to the circuit board.

Buck
k4ia K3 #101

In a message dated 6/28/2010 8:52:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:
Aside from "Polish Solidarity" this long string of emails about the
Anderson variety only confirms my experience-based opinion that these
connectors are very poorly designed and should be avoided. People I know
who use them in mobile applications tape them together. My K2 experience
with them was grossly unsatisfactory. There are other, better, options
for locking power connectors...

John Ragle -- W1ZI
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Power Poles...

In reply to this post by John Ragle

John,

If one has to tape them together, the most likely problem is that they
were not assembled correctly. Properly assembled APPs are very good and
have an adequate amount of pullout resistance. The specification is 25
lbf - so yes, they will not withstand a 25 pound pull force, but that is
quite substantial - at anything below that they should stay together. I
have never had any problem with them, and I use them on all my DC
connections.

73,
Don W3FPR

John Ragle wrote:

> Aside from "Polish Solidarity" this long string of emails about the
> Anderson variety only confirms my experience-based opinion that these
> connectors are very poorly designed and should be avoided. People I know
> who use them in mobile applications tape them together. My K2 experience
> with them was grossly unsatisfactory. There are other, better, options
> for locking power connectors...
>
> John Ragle -- W1ZI
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

P.B. Christensen

Re: Power Poles...

In reply to this post by John Ragle

I'm traveling at the moment and can't confirm this, but is may be possible
to use a small retention wire if there's a roll-pin hole on the K3's APP.
The West Mountain RigRunners use these to keep the APPs intact and it works
very well.

I have mixed feelings about the APP. I like it for its versatility and ease
of assembly -- I hate it for its long-term reliability. No doubt many AAPs
are assembled incorrectly, but there are a great number of correctly
assembled APPs that unnecessarily disconnect with lateral pressure. If the
connector breaks away during a high-current moment, the pins can form arc
pits. The problem seems to be aggravated with the use of larger cable
conductor size -- like that needed on the rear of the K3 to handle ~ 20A of
DC current.

I have two commercial APP crimpers, the best of which keeps the tongue of
the pin from bending during the crimp. That certainly helps, but other
connectors with locking tabs seem to be a better solution for high-current
equipment. What's needed is a low-cost, reliable connector that remains
stable with wire pressure, but still breaks away with a high amount of
pressure in the event of an accidental strike to the cable.

One possibility is to design high-current equipment with a quad APP panel
connector and double-up on the contacts. That way, the connector: (1)
becomes square in shape, instead of a thin rectangle that's prone to
accidental lateral pulls; (2) offers higher current-carrying capabilities;
and (3) has significantly increased pull strength, yet can still break away
for safety concerns.

http://tinyurl.com/29ktqmw

Paul, W9AC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Brown-10

Re: Power Poles...

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 09:13:21 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote:

>I have never had any problem with them, and I use them on all my DC
>connections.

Same here. I LOVE the Power Pole connectors, and use them extensively.
I've broken all of my various DC power leads to insert them so that I
can mix and match power supplies and equipment.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

P.B. Christensen

Re: Power Poles...

In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen

> That way, the connector: (1) becomes square in shape, instead of a thin
> rectangle that's prone to
> accidental lateral pulls; (2) offers higher current-carrying capabilities;
> and (3) has significantly increased pull strength, yet can still break
> away
> for safety concerns.

Just thought of a fourth benefit. A quad APP panel connector can still use
the standard ARES 2-pole format in a pinch. So, in an emergency, existing
2-pole APPs could be used with the square-shaped quad-pole being the
preferred connector. With the doubling-up on pins on the quad, either side
of the quad will mate with the 2-pole APP and there's no possibility of
accidental polarity reversal.

I did say I liked the APP for its versatility :-))

Paul, W9AC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Grant Youngman

Re: Power Poles...

I'm actually not entirely sure how one reverses polarity with a properly assembled PP connector. I suppose one could hammer them together in the wrong orientation? :-)

It would also be simple enough for the manufacturers to solve the polarity problem by using a bridge rectifier at the power input, although that has a definite downside as well.

I like them also. Even my rotator control cable and outdoor antenna switch disconnects are sets of power poles -- they are mounted in a housing (and pinned in place) that locks into its counterpart. But it isn't possible to accidentally put the two connector sets together in anything but the correct orientation.

As far as the two halves of a 2-pole power connector sliding apart or becoming slightly misaligned, a little drop of super glue when assembling the halves solves that problem nicely.

Power Poles, like them or not, have become the defacto standard. Learning how to manage them is probably better than just grumbling about them -- at least until the next thing, whatever that is, comes along to set a new standard.

Grant/NQ5T

On Jun 28, 2010, at 9:06 AM, Paul Christensen wrote:
>
> I did say I liked the APP for its versatility :-))
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Steve Ellington

Re: Power Poles...

I never mess with those PP connectors on the back of the K3. They feel like
they would fall apart easily. I just leave them connected and at the other
end of the cable, I wrap them around the power supplies (Astron RS35)
terminal and tighten with a wrench. What a novel idea eh? I've been known to
solder LUGS on the ends! I've even run 3 devices off the PS by stacking
those lugs 3 deep on the big terminals. Never had a problem.
Oh....eventually the ends of the wire might wear out ....No problem...Just
strip the insulation and start over.
For temporary splicing I usually wrap the wires together and slap some
electrical tape on it. For permanent work, I use solder then tape. No
special tools needed.
Steve
N4LQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Youngman" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Email" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Power Poles...

> I'm actually not entirely sure how one reverses polarity with a properly
> assembled PP connector. I suppose one could hammer them together in the
> wrong orientation? :-)
>
> It would also be simple enough for the manufacturers to solve the polarity
> problem by using a bridge rectifier at the power input, although that has
> a definite downside as well.
>
> I like them also. Even my rotator control cable and outdoor antenna
> switch disconnects are sets of power poles -- they are mounted in a
> housing (and pinned in place) that locks into its counterpart. But it
> isn't possible to accidentally put the two connector sets together in
> anything but the correct orientation.
>
> As far as the two halves of a 2-pole power connector sliding apart or
> becoming slightly misaligned, a little drop of super glue when assembling
> the halves solves that problem nicely.
>
> Power Poles, like them or not, have become the defacto standard. Learning
> how to manage them is probably better than just grumbling about them -- at
> least until the next thing, whatever that is, comes along to set a new
> standard.
>
> Grant/NQ5T
>
>
> On Jun 28, 2010, at 9:06 AM, Paul Christensen wrote:
>>
>> I did say I liked the APP for its versatility :-))
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Phil Salas

Re: Power Poles...

In reply to this post by John Ragle

I've used these PowerPole connectors for several years, both for mobile and
fixed station use. I've never had a problem with these connectors coming
apart, even in the mobile environment. I crimp the wire to the contacts
using the West Mountain Radio crimper, and all crimps have been perfect. I
don't use that little roll-pin however. I normally put a dab of superglue
on one housing just before sliding the red & black housings together. I do
this before snapping the wire/contacts into the completed housing. I've
built somewhere between 100-200 connector pairs so far (I'm on my second bag
of 100 pairs).

Phil - AD5X

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Howard..K2HK

K3..Power Poles and my bad,very bad

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

I had a very senior moment yesterday related to PowerPoles and could use some help. The power supply that my K3 is powered by has an auxiliary cigar lighter outlet. In the midst of a project (too late at night)I plugged that cable into a similiar PowerPole which turned out to be the cable from another P/S which happens to be a 24 VDC supply.The K3 went dead in a blink. Does not restart. First, any suggestion of where to start looking? Second, although this never happened to me before it is something to be aware of if you have several terminals dangling at your desk. Embarrassing situation!

Howard..K2HK

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

W8JI

Re: Power Poles...

In reply to this post by Grant Youngman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Youngman" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Email" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Power Poles...
> It would also be simple enough for the manufacturers to solve the polarity
> problem by using a bridge rectifier at the power input, although that has
> a definite downside as well.
>

It sure does have a downside. The 1.4 volts drop would seriously hurt the
maximum low-distortion power output. 13.8 volts is bad enough for clean SSB
at the 100 watt level.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Grant Youngman

Re: Power Poles...

That was the point.

The other point was -- How hard is it to build a power pole connector, put it together properly, and LABEL the darn thing to avoid disasters like plugging a 24v supply into a 12v radio? :-)

Grant/NQ5T

On Jun 28, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Youngman" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Elecraft Email" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 10:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Power Poles...
>> It would also be simple enough for the manufacturers to solve the polarity problem by using a bridge rectifier at the power input, although that has a definite downside as well.
>>
>
> It sure does have a downside. The 1.4 volts drop would seriously hurt the maximum low-distortion power output. 13.8 volts is bad enough for clean SSB at the 100 watt level.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bob-270

Re: K3..Power Poles and my bad,very bad

In reply to this post by Howard..K2HK

OOPS!!

Lets see here. Power Poles come in all the standard color codes plus a
non standard pink.

So: 12 volt cables are brn-red
5 volt cables are pink-grn
24 volt cables are red-yel
48 volt cables are red-gry

Works for me....

73,
Bob
K2TK

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Eugene Balinski

Re: Power Poles...

In reply to this post by Grant Youngman

One method to avoid confusion is to use different color
power poles for different supply voltages red-black for
13.5V, green-black for 24V, White-black for 5V, etc

Many sites sell the various color options.

73
K1NR

K2 SN 6k...

On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 10:48:20 -0500
Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That was the point.
>
> The other point was -- How hard is it to build a power
> pole connector, put it together properly, and LABEL the
> darn thing to avoid disasters like plugging a 24v supply
> into a 12v radio? :-)
>
> Grant/NQ5T
>
>
> On Jun 28, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Youngman"
> <[hidden email]>
> > To: "Elecraft Email" <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 10:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Power Poles...
> >> It would also be simple enough for the manufacturers
> to solve the polarity problem by using a bridge rectifier
> at the power input, although that has a definite downside
> as well.
> >>
> >
> > It sure does have a downside. The 1.4 volts drop would
> seriously hurt the maximum low-distortion power output.
> 13.8 volts is bad enough for clean SSB at the 100 watt
> level.
>
>

______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider.
http://www.nni.com/
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bob-270

Re: K3..Power Poles and my bad,very bad

In reply to this post by Bob-270

MY OOPS TOO!!

The 48 volt ones here are yel-gry here....

Of course I spotted that right after hitting send in spite of reading it.

73,
Bob
K2TK

On 6/28/2010 12:19 PM, Bob wrote:

> OOPS!!
>
> Lets see here. Power Poles come in all the standard color codes plus a
> non standard pink.
>
> So: 12 volt cables are brn-red
> 5 volt cables are pink-grn
> 24 volt cables are red-yel
> 48 volt cables are red-gry
>
> Works for me....
>
> 73,
> Bob
> K2TK
>
>
>

David Cutter

Re: Power Poles...

In reply to this post by Buck - k4ia

Remove the connector and solder the wires directly; this also reduces IR
loss.

David
G3UNA

>
> After watching the PP connectors on my K3 wiggle around at Field Day, I
> have to question again why Elecraft chose these toads-in-a-tuxedo for a
> connector. PP are way over-rated. The only strain relief they provide
> is when
> they come apart - which is often. I suppose we could call that defect an
> "undocumented feature." A simple molex would have been fine and a whole
> lot more secure.
>
> But not to start a flame war over PPs, I'll stay positive. Anyone have
> any ideas on how to better secure the PP in the K3? Mine wiggles and I
> am
> thinking about some hot glue to the circuit board.
>
> Buck
> k4ia K3 #101
>

Howard..K2HK

Re: K3..Power Poles and my bad,very bad

In reply to this post by Bob-270

Of course now that the cows have left I tagged the various voltages with colored tape. An easy fix. But still need ideas for getting the K3 up again aside from sending it to Elecraft.
Howard..K2HK

> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 12:35:59 -0400
> From: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3..Power Poles and my bad,very bad
>
> MY OOPS TOO!!
>
> The 48 volt ones here are yel-gry here....
>
> Of course I spotted that right after hitting send in spite of reading it.
>
>
> 73,
> Bob
> K2TK
>
> On 6/28/2010 12:19 PM, Bob wrote:
> > OOPS!!
> >
> > Lets see here. Power Poles come in all the standard color codes plus a
> > non standard pink.
> >
> > So: 12 volt cables are brn-red
> > 5 volt cables are pink-grn
> > 24 volt cables are red-yel
> > 48 volt cables are red-gry
> >
> > Works for me....
> >
> > 73,
> > Bob
> > K2TK
> >
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jeff kb2m

Re: Power Poles...

In reply to this post by Grant Youngman

Much easier than that. Just plug the hot red side into only the black side
on a grounded piece of equipment. Very easy to do when plugging in a PP
under your vehicle's dash at night. I thought it would have been much better
to NOT try and save a penny or so a connector by designing the red and black
connectors to be made from the same mold. But, I also use APP's almost
exclusively...
73 Jeff kb2m

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Grant Youngman
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 10:29 AM
To: Elecraft Email
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Power Poles...

I'm actually not entirely sure how one reverses polarity with a properly
assembled PP connector. I suppose one could hammer them together in the
wrong orientation? :-)

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Alexandr Kobranov

Re: K3..Power Poles and my bad,very bad

In reply to this post by Howard..K2HK

Just an idea (used in my config) - 24V PP terminal is with larger "pitch" by
using dummy spacer between + and - PP terminals. Such "spacer" is as a
standard PP connector but shorter and without contact. This seems - to me -
as the only way how to eliminate mistake when just two voltages used.

73!
Lexa, ok1dst

2010/6/28 Howard K2HK <[hidden email]>

>
> Of course now that the cows have left I tagged the various voltages with
> colored tape. An easy fix. But still need ideas for getting the K3 up again
> aside from sending it to Elecraft.
> Howard..K2HK
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 12:35:59 -0400
> > From: [hidden email]
> > CC: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3..Power Poles and my bad,very bad
> >
> > MY OOPS TOO!!
> >
> > The 48 volt ones here are yel-gry here....
> >
> > Of course I spotted that right after hitting send in spite of reading
> it.
> >
> >
> > 73,
> > Bob
> > K2TK
> >
> > On 6/28/2010 12:19 PM, Bob wrote:
> > > OOPS!!
> > >
> > > Lets see here. Power Poles come in all the standard color codes plus a
> > > non standard pink.
> > >
> > > So: 12 volt cables are brn-red
> > > 5 volt cables are pink-grn
> > > 24 volt cables are red-yel
> > > 48 volt cables are red-gry
> > >
> > > Works for me....
> > >
> > > 73,
> > > Bob
> > > K2TK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

clayj

Another (stupid) Clock Question

In reply to this post by Jeff kb2m

So - I had my new K3 out at our Field Day (W7S - Sammamish ARES/RACES
Group) operation; and it worked great! I'm still getting used to all the
filters and features; but it was definitely a step above any other rig
there, INCLUDING a Flex-3000. The "HI RFI" mod definetly saved my rig on
more than one occasion when someone started using a 40M dipole that was
only 10' feet separated from the 15M dipole that I was using.

I did have one "interesting" issue - I let a number of folks use the rig,
with no apparent ill effects; EXCEPT, the clock (when displayed in VFO B)
is now displaying on the DATE and not the time. I read through the
owners manual, and CANNOT seem to figure out how to change that back.

Also - the manual implies that the "Display" button will "cycle" through
several different displays in VFO B; but, the only two I can see are
either the Frequency or Clock display.

Can someone assist?

Thanks!

Clay
N7QNM

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html