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Re: Copy cat - no way

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JHRichards

Re: Copy cat - no way

On 8/31/2019 1:21 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> New Icom IC-705, a QRP IC-7300.
>
> With a very KX'y form factor.
_________________________________________________

Oh pshaw. That is quite a stretch, and I do not see it, myself. Other
than the basic shape (a rectangular box) and handle brackets (which I
think are optional on a KS3,) it does not look like a KX3 (not to me,
anyway.) Besides, several other QRP rigs have that same basic shape.
The screen bears no meaningful resemblance, and it consumes most of the
front panel. You are working to hard for some reason.

Just MY take. Your mileage may differ. K8JHR

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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: Copy cat - no way

Well, it IS some significant competition, especially since the "PX3" is built-in eh?

Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of JR
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2019 2:37 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Copy cat - no way

On 8/31/2019 1:21 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> New Icom IC-705, a QRP IC-7300.
>
> With a very KX'y form factor.
_________________________________________________

Oh pshaw. That is quite a stretch, and I do not see it, myself. Other than the basic shape (a rectangular box) and handle brackets (which I think are optional on a KS3,) it does not look like a KX3 (not to me,
anyway.) Besides, several other QRP rigs have that same basic shape. The screen bears no meaningful resemblance, and it consumes most of the front panel. You are working to hard for some reason.

Just MY take. Your mileage may differ. K8JHR

________________________________________

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wayne burdick

Re: Copy cat - no way

Administrator

> On Aug 31, 2019, at 3:25 PM, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Well, it IS some significant competition, especially since the "PX3" is built-in eh?
>
>
> Charlie k3ICH
>

It's an interesting radio for those who need built-in VHF/UHF.

But there are major differences between the KX2/KX3 and '705 for those doing lightweight outdoor operation:

- KX3 is half the size and 33% lighter; KX2 is one-third the size and weight
- KX3 has max power out of 15 W, KX2 12 W (vs. 10 W); KX2 can put out 10 W on internal battery
- the KX3/KX2 LCD is very high contrast, easily readable in bright sunlight
(I've seen the '7300 display in sunlight, and it's almost completely washed out)
- both KX-line rigs have a built-in wide-range ATU (not mentioned in the '705 brochure)
- both work with an attached keyer paddle
- both have far lower current drain (0.15-0.25 A vs. estimated 0.8-1.0 amps)
- the '705s internal battery is only 2 AH/7.4 V = 14.8 WH; the KX2's is
2.5 AH and 11 V = 27.5 WH, and the KX3 can be used with 8x Lithium AA, 3A @ 12V = 36 WH

The other head-scratching design choice is the lack of any sort of tilt stand for angled use. If you use it as shown on a desktop, with the display at 90 degrees and no feet, it will be very hard to push buttons, and when you do, the rig will slide backwards. If you place it on its back with the display facing up, operation would be awkward in many field situations. Hand-held operation also seems unlikely (something you can easily do with a KX2 or even a KX3).

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Copy cat - no way

Wayne et al:

> On Sep 3, 2019, at 12:03 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On Aug 31, 2019, at 3:25 PM, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Well, it IS some significant competition, especially since the "PX3" is built-in eh?
>>
>>
>> Charlie k3ICH
>>
>
> It's an interesting radio for those who need built-in VHF/UHF.
>
> But there are major differences between the KX2/KX3 and '705 for those doing lightweight outdoor operation:
>
> - KX3 is half the size and 33% lighter; KX2 is one-third the size and weight
> - KX3 has max power out of 15 W, KX2 12 W (vs. 10 W); KX2 can put out 10 W on internal battery
> - the KX3/KX2 LCD is very high contrast, easily readable in bright sunlight
> (I've seen the '7300 display in sunlight, and it's almost completely washed out)
> - both KX-line rigs have a built-in wide-range ATU (not mentioned in the '705 brochure)
> - both work with an attached keyer paddle
> - both have far lower current drain (0.15-0.25 A vs. estimated 0.8-1.0 amps)
> - the '705s internal battery is only 2 AH/7.4 V = 14.8 WH; the KX2's is
> 2.5 AH and 11 V = 27.5 WH, and the KX3 can be used with 8x Lithium AA, 3A @ 12V = 36 WH
>
> The other head-scratching design choice is the lack of any sort of tilt stand for angled use. If you use it as shown on a desktop, with the display at 90 degrees and no feet, it will be very hard to push buttons, and when you do, the rig will slide backwards. If you place it on its back with the display facing up, operation would be awkward in many field situations. Hand-held operation also seems unlikely (something you can easily do with a KX2 or even a KX3).

Another question is whether the IC-705 will support full duplex operation (e.g. UHF/VHF) that satellite operators need for working linear and FM satellites. I’m not aware of any current field radio that does UHF/VHF full duplex. Most satellite operators typically end up using two radios for linear satellite contacts which adds complexity and bulk.

A second question is how it might work as a mobile rig. It isn’t clear from the photos I’ve seen whether there is a mounting arrangement that would work well in a vehicle. The fact that the new model is a ‘705’ suggests a connection to the IC-706, which works well as a mobile rig with an easy-to-mount control head and a base that provides 100 watts. One has to wonder if Icom will eventually provide for the IC-705 a 100 watt HF option or a UHF/VHF option as an external amplifier for mobile use.

FWIW.

Barry Baines, WD4ASW
(Currently in Boston, MA)

>
>
>
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Re: Copy cat - no way

In reply to this post by JHRichards

I noticed that the IC-705 drawing shows an ATU connector presumably for linking to an external ATU. Maybe the intended market is not SOTA, portable, Field Day, or anything outdoors.

Perhaps a paddle is in the accessories we have not seen yet.

Bob R – N7WY

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Mike Morrow-3

Re: Copy cat - no way

In reply to this post by JHRichards

Wayne wrote of the IC-705:

> It's an interesting radio for those who need built-in VHF/UHF.
>
> But there are major differences between the KX2/KX3
> and '705 for those doing lightweight outdoor operation:
>
> - KX3 is half the size and 33% lighter; KX2 is one-third
> the size and weight
> - KX3 has max power out of 15 W, KX2 12 W (vs. 10 W);
> KX2 can put out 10 W on internal battery
> - the KX3/KX2 LCD is very high contrast, easily readable
> in bright sunlight
> (I've seen the '7300 display in sunlight, and it's
> almost completely washed out)
> - both KX-line rigs have a built-in wide-range ATU (not
> mentioned in the '705 brochure)
> - both work with an attached keyer paddle
> - both have far lower current drain (0.15-0.25 A
> vs. estimated 0.8-1.0 amps)
> - the '705s internal battery is only 2 AH/7.4 V = 14.8 WH;
> the KX2's is 2.5 AH and 11 V = 27.5 WH, and the KX3 can be
> used with 8x Lithium AA, 3A @ 12V = 36 WH

That massive power consumption of the IC-705 just by itself is the Kiss o'Death to all serious consideration as a backpack and SOTA radio.

And...there is little doubt that it lacks the advanced exotic capability to do really really hard things like operate its iambic keyer in mode A. I've never found an Icom rep even at Dayton who could explain why that was impossible technology for Icom, other than blame it vaguely and stupidly on "the engineers". That's if I was lucky enough to find an Icom rep at Hamvention who even knew what I meant when I asked about "iambic mode A".

The other IC-705 characteristic that is adverse to outdoor operation is its very dark color scheme. That makes it an effective heat sink for solar radiation...never a good thing unless operating in polar regions. :-) Unfortunately Icom is **not alone** with the gratuitous inclusion of such a harmful "feature" in a small radio.

Mike / KK5F
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wayne burdick

Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

Administrator

> Mike Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ... [a] characteristic that is adverse to outdoor operation is its very dark color scheme. That makes it an effective heat sink for solar radiation...never a good thing unless operating in polar regions. :-) Unfortunately Icom is **not alone** with the gratuitous inclusion of such a harmful "feature" in a small radio.
>
> Mike / KK5F

Mike -- do you think there's a market for a lighter KX2 color scheme? Maybe a seafoam camo, or marzipan, or chrome with fractal filigree? I'm game. Let's have a vote.

Wayne
N6KR

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Re: Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

Desert tan!!

> On Sep 3, 2019, at 9:26 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> Mike Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> ... [a] characteristic that is adverse to outdoor operation is its very dark color scheme. That makes it an effective heat sink for solar radiation...never a good thing unless operating in polar regions. :-) Unfortunately Icom is **not alone** with the gratuitous inclusion of such a harmful "feature" in a small radio.
>>
>> Mike / KK5F
>
>
> Mike -- do you think there's a market for a lighter KX2 color scheme? Maybe a seafoam camo, or marzipan, or chrome with fractal filigree? I'm game. Let's have a vote.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
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David Gilbert

Re: Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

A bit counter intuitive, but for stealth purposes coral pink might be a
good choice. No way anyone ever would guess it was a radio.

I'm here all week ...

Dave AB7E

On 9/3/2019 6:26 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> Mike -- do you think there's a market for a lighter KX2 color scheme? Maybe a seafoam camo, or marzipan, or chrome with fractal filigree? I'm game. Let's have a vote.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR

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Kent Olsen

Re: Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

Im afraid I would lose my radio in the grass!

Thanks
73
Kent
N6WT

On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 6:36 PM David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> A bit counter intuitive, but for stealth purposes coral pink might be a
> good choice. No way anyone ever would guess it was a radio.
>
> I'm here all week ...
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
> On 9/3/2019 6:26 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> > Mike -- do you think there's a market for a lighter KX2 color scheme?
> Maybe a seafoam camo, or marzipan, or chrome with fractal filigree? I'm
> game. Let's have a vote.
> >
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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wayne burdick

Re: Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

Administrator

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

> David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A bit counter intuitive, but for stealth purposes coral pink might be a good choice. No way anyone ever would guess it was a radio.
>
> I'm here all week ...

Meaning we can expect additional edgy aesthetic proposals?

>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
> On 9/3/2019 6:26 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> Mike -- do you think there's a market for a lighter KX2 color scheme? Maybe a seafoam camo, or marzipan, or chrome with fractal filigree? I'm game. Let's have a vote.
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

How about an urban HOA tan stucco AX1 for us cliff dwellers as well? Scott Ka9p/0

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 3, 2019, at 7:32 PM, HB via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Desert tan!!
>
>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 9:26 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Mike Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> ... [a] characteristic that is adverse to outdoor operation is its very dark color scheme. That makes it an effective heat sink for solar radiation...never a good thing unless operating in polar regions. :-) Unfortunately Icom is **not alone** with the gratuitous inclusion of such a harmful "feature" in a small radio.
>>>
>>> Mike / KK5F
>>
>>
>> Mike -- do you think there's a market for a lighter KX2 color scheme? Maybe a seafoam camo, or marzipan, or chrome with fractal filigree? I'm game. Let's have a vote.
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Ken G Kopp

Re: Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

As "fallout" from Rose's case and cover efforts we find that cammo fabric
is copyrighted. This from her main fabric supplier. Don't know if this
applies to paint finish or not.

FWIW

73

Ken

On Tue, Sep 3, 2019, 19:27 Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > Mike Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > ... [a] characteristic that is adverse to outdoor operation is its very
> dark color scheme. That makes it an effective heat sink for solar
> radiation...never a good thing unless operating in polar regions. :-)
> Unfortunately Icom is **not alone** with the gratuitous inclusion of such a
> harmful "feature" in a small radio.
> >
> > Mike / KK5F
>
>
> Mike -- do you think there's a market for a lighter KX2 color scheme?
> Maybe a seafoam camo, or marzipan, or chrome with fractal filigree? I'm
> game. Let's have a vote.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>

Bill Frantz

Re: Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

I would like a light color where the dark printed labels have
high contrast so they can be read in low light. I have the
problem with my shack K3. I often try to operate it without
turning on the lights, and always have a problem reading the
labels. At least now I know where most of the are by memory.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 9/3/19 at 6:26 PM, [hidden email] (Wayne Burdick) wrote:

>Mike -- do you think there's a market for a lighter KX2 color
>scheme? Maybe a seafoam camo, or marzipan, or chrome with
>fractal filigree? I'm game. Let's have a vote.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Re: Hardware Management Modes: | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | If there's a mode, there's a | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | failure mode. - Jerry Leichter | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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k6dgw

Re: Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

In reply to this post by Ken G Kopp

Hmmm ... There have been many cammo patterns over the years. Our CJU's
in SE Asia [long ago] were black and several shades of gray in what I
think was called "Woodland something" pattern. It also came in more
woodland-ish colors [greens et al]. There was a period not too long ago
when they were called "digital" because the pattern was made up of
square "pixels" in a random pattern. I believe that pattern also came
in several shades, the Desert Tan being pretty common recently. Are
they all copyrighted?

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/3/2019 7:08 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote:

> As "fallout" from Rose's case and cover efforts we find that cammo fabric
> is copyrighted. This from her main fabric supplier. Don't know if this
> applies to paint finish or not.
>
> FWIW
>
> 73
>
> Ken
>
>

ktalbott

Re: Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Desert tan with high contrast black labels
Ken ke4rg

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 9:26 PM
To: Mike Morrow <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

> Mike Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ... [a] characteristic that is adverse to outdoor operation is its very
dark color scheme. That makes it an effective heat sink for solar
radiation...never a good thing unless operating in polar regions. :-)
Unfortunately Icom is **not alone** with the gratuitous inclusion of such a
harmful "feature" in a small radio.
>
> Mike / KK5F

Mike -- do you think there's a market for a lighter KX2 color scheme? Maybe
a seafoam camo, or marzipan, or chrome with fractal filigree? I'm game.
Let's have a vote.

Wayne
N6KR

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Steve Sergeant

Re: Cammo KX2?

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

On 9/3/19 18:26 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> do you think there's a market for a lighter KX2 color scheme? Maybe a seafoam camo, or marzipan, or chrome with fractal filigree? I'm game. Let's have a vote.

When I bought my KX2, given the option I would have chosen a hi-viz
color (traffic-cone orange, safety-vest yellow/green) over the stock
color scheme.
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Tony-3

Re: Cammo KX2?

What about commemorative color and camouflage schemes to honor our
service men? Dan, WV1P did some nice work with Fallujha and digital
camouflage as well as drab olive green.

Some of his work can be seen here:
http://www.ab4oj.com/icom/ic7200/camo.html

Tony -K2MO

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K5EST

Re: Copy cat - no way

In reply to this post by JHRichards

Elecraft has the best I have found for portable and QRP comms. Lots of low
power competition just dazzle the rig or spiffy the cabinet but Elecraft is
the real winner to me.

73,

Walter Dufrain - K5EST
QRPcw--> KX1,KX2,KX3
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N3AO

Re: Cammo KX2? (Was: Copy cat - no way)

In reply to this post by Kent Olsen

I think that a brighter color scheme would make for easier visibility when
trying to find everything whilst on a hiking/hamming outing. In the
twilight especially. I want to make sure I have EVERYTHING as I’m repacking
my backpack!
73,
Carter, N3AO
Blacksburg, VA

On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 9:41 PM Kent Olsen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Im afraid I would lose my radio in the grass!
>
> Thanks
> 73
> Kent
> N6WT
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 6:36 PM David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > A bit counter intuitive, but for stealth purposes coral pink might be a
> > good choice. No way anyone ever would guess it was a radio.
> >
> > I'm here all week ...
> >
> > Dave AB7E
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/3/2019 6:26 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> > > Mike -- do you think there's a market for a lighter KX2 color scheme?
> > Maybe a seafoam camo, or marzipan, or chrome with fractal filigree? I'm
> > game. Let's have a vote.
> > >
> > > Wayne
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--
Carter, N3AO
Blacksburg, VA
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