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Reaching across the chronological divide

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David Gilbert

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

That's true from my perspective as well.

But you and I don't count. Wayne started this thread in the context of
drawing new members into the hobby (understandably so since his business
depends upon it for the long term). If those of us already invested in
this hobby aren't interested in ragchewing anymore, at least not to any
significant degree as any non-contest day clearly shows, why on earth
would we expect ragchewing to be the draw that brings in new members,
especially considering the relative barriers (cost, space, license,
HOAs, etc)? I'll even bet that the majority of folks subscribed to this
reflector spend more time each week reading it than they do ragchewing
on the air.

It's not like the old days, even for us.

So I'll say it one more time and then I'll mercifully refrain from
further posts on the topic. Unless ham radio figures out how to evolve
into something that actually has appeal for today's youngsters, we're
still going to primarily be an aging (and diminishing) club of old
people. More of the same, no matter how strongly we try to convince
anyone, isn't going to change anything.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 12/22/2019 9:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one
> communications with someone who we have never met - without the need
> for the internet, Facebook or any other internet app.
> It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone
> new via ham radio.
>
> Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the
> emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with
> someone new to get to know something about them personally or their
> location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that
> element being diminished.
>
> Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and
> 40 meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about
> ourselves and getting the same in return.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 12/22/2019 11:17 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>>
>> I think we already discussed that aspect, and the point is that young
>> people with a technological inclination are far more likely to be
>> interested in software, or robotics, or biomedical ... stuff that has
>> more relevance to advancing the world and actually leading to a job.
>> It might be a challenge to bounce a signal of the ionosphere but
>> people were doing that 100 years ago.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>> On 12/22/2019 6:52 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote:
>>> There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away
>>> places." No doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For
>>> myself, I was never particularly interested in "communicating." For
>>> me it was mastery of a technical environment. Communicating was just
>>> the proof that the environment had been mastered. Another way of
>>> saying this -maybe- is technology versus sociology. There are many
>>> traditional activities that have been replaced by more modern
>>> versions [eg, horses versus cars, walking versus bicycling,
>>> bow/arrow versus guns]. Yet, there is still interest in the "old
>>> way," because the earlier challenges remain in spite of more modern
>>> solutions. Getting a signal from my radio, out into the ether,
>>> bouncing it off the ionosphere, and back down on the other side is
>>> still a challenge. Satellite links and the internet don't negate the
>>> ionospheric challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the
>>> technical challenges of the hobby will brings in those who like such
>>> challenges. Communicating may be the benny on the other side of
>>> mastery.
>>>
>

Bill K9YEQ

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Well put. Totally agree.

Bill
920-421-1172

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 10:37:15 PM
To: David Gilbert <[hidden email]>; [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one
communications with someone who we have never met - without the need for
the internet, Facebook or any other internet app.
It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone new
via ham radio.

Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the
emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with
someone new to get to know something about them personally or their
location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that
element being diminished.

Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and 40
meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about
ourselves and getting the same in return.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/22/2019 11:17 PM, David Gilbert wrote:

>
> I think we already discussed that aspect, and the point is that young
> people with a technological inclination are far more likely to be
> interested in software, or robotics, or biomedical ... stuff that has
> more relevance to advancing the world and actually leading to a job. It
> might be a challenge to bounce a signal of the ionosphere but people
> were doing that 100 years ago.
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E
>
>
> On 12/22/2019 6:52 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote:
>> There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away
>> places." No doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For
>> myself, I was never particularly interested in "communicating." For me
>> it was mastery of a technical environment. Communicating was just the
>> proof that the environment had been mastered. Another way of saying
>> this -maybe- is technology versus sociology. There are many
>> traditional activities that have been replaced by more modern versions
>> [eg, horses versus cars, walking versus bicycling, bow/arrow versus
>> guns]. Yet, there is still interest in the "old way," because the
>> earlier challenges remain in spite of more modern solutions. Getting a
>> signal from my radio, out into the ether, bouncing it off the
>> ionosphere, and back down on the other side is still a challenge.
>> Satellite links and the internet don't negate the ionospheric
>> challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the technical
>> challenges of the hobby will brings in those who like such challenges.
>> Communicating may be the benny on the other side of mastery.
>>

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

From what I have seen, it is not just Internet and Cellular that has stolen some thunder from ham radio as an interesting hobby to pursue. It is also computer gaming. Both of my grandsons are into computer games (both in high school now) and both are involved in programming computers (some motivation from me as being a programmer for 50+ years) and they both want to pursue computer programming of games. I hope that changes but this has seriously diminished any interest in ham radio and they both have grown up known about my hobby, electronics, and such.

Computer Internet gaming offers some of the same features of ham radio of meeting people all over the world that you did not know before hand. Gaming is one of the Internet based activities that creates International friendships and cross culture exchanges. Surprising, who would have thought.

I admit that if I were a kid growing up with today’s technology that I probably would not be interested in ham radio.

73, phil, K7PEH

> On Dec 22, 2019, at 8:37 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one communications with someone who we have never met - without the need for the internet, Facebook or any other internet app.
> It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone new via ham radio.
>
> Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with someone new to get to know something about them personally or their location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that element being diminished.
>
> Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and 40 meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about ourselves and getting the same in return.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 12/22/2019 11:17 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>> I think we already discussed that aspect, and the point is that young people with a technological inclination are far more likely to be interested in software, or robotics, or biomedical ... stuff that has more relevance to advancing the world and actually leading to a job. It might be a challenge to bounce a signal of the ionosphere but people were doing that 100 years ago.
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>> On 12/22/2019 6:52 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote:
>>> There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away places." No doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For myself, I was never particularly interested in "communicating." For me it was mastery of a technical environment. Communicating was just the proof that the environment had been mastered. Another way of saying this -maybe- is technology versus sociology. There are many traditional activities that have been replaced by more modern versions [eg, horses versus cars, walking versus bicycling, bow/arrow versus guns]. Yet, there is still interest in the "old way," because the earlier challenges remain in spite of more modern solutions. Getting a signal from my radio, out into the ether, bouncing it off the ionosphere, and back down on the other side is still a challenge. Satellite links and the internet don't negate the ionospheric challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the technical challenges of the hobby will brings in those who like such challenges. Communicating may be the benny on the other side of mastery.
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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wayne burdick

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

Administrator

In reply to this post by Bill K9YEQ

We've been mining this thread for gems, of which there are many. Thanks to all who have contributed pragmatic observations, bold suggestions, and wistful memories.

Happy holidays to all.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On Dec 23, 2019, at 7:12 AM, Bill Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Well put. Totally agree.
>
> Bill
> 920-421-1172
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 10:37:15 PM
> To: David Gilbert <[hidden email]>; [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
>
> I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one
> communications with someone who we have never met - without the need for
> the internet, Facebook or any other internet app.
> It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone new
> via ham radio.
>
> Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the
> emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with
> someone new to get to know something about them personally or their
> location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that
> element being diminished.
>
> Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and 40
> meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about
> ourselves and getting the same in return.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 12/22/2019 11:17 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>>
>> I think we already discussed that aspect, and the point is that young
>> people with a technological inclination are far more likely to be
>> interested in software, or robotics, or biomedical ... stuff that has
>> more relevance to advancing the world and actually leading to a job. It
>> might be a challenge to bounce a signal of the ionosphere but people
>> were doing that 100 years ago.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>> On 12/22/2019 6:52 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote:
>>> There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away
>>> places." No doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For
>>> myself, I was never particularly interested in "communicating." For me
>>> it was mastery of a technical environment. Communicating was just the
>>> proof that the environment had been mastered. Another way of saying
>>> this -maybe- is technology versus sociology. There are many
>>> traditional activities that have been replaced by more modern versions
>>> [eg, horses versus cars, walking versus bicycling, bow/arrow versus
>>> guns]. Yet, there is still interest in the "old way," because the
>>> earlier challenges remain in spite of more modern solutions. Getting a
>>> signal from my radio, out into the ether, bouncing it off the
>>> ionosphere, and back down on the other side is still a challenge.
>>> Satellite links and the internet don't negate the ionospheric
>>> challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the technical
>>> challenges of the hobby will brings in those who like such challenges.
>>> Communicating may be the benny on the other side of mastery.
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

Brethren . . .

Keep in mind that while the hair gets grayer, attendance at Dayton was
at an all-time second high last May.

According to the FCC, the number of American licensees is at an all-time
high.

ARRL reports membership over 170,000, also an all-time high.

When those three figures start falling it will be time for pessimism.
Until then, let's talk positive, act positive, and be positive.

73,

Kent K9ZTV
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EricJ-2

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

I mean this sincerely. I'm NOT in grumpy-old-man mode, though I can do that very well. The majority of QSOs with new people are about as interesting, enduring and deep as a short chat in the checkout line at Safeway. Many aren't even that interesting. PSK ops just throw on a brag tape and walk away. It's a pleasant few minutes, but it rarely leads to anything more. It does happen, but who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars and hours on the outside chance it does? The opportunity for superficial chit chat with strangers was NEVER on my mind at 14 when I got interested in ham radio so it's a bit much to expect teenagers today to care about that.

Ham radio has always been chock full of quick award-qualifying or contest contacts. Worked All Continents, countries, states, provinces, counties, grids, lighthouses, summits, guys named Fred. Go back as far as you want in QST and it's full of honor rolls, contest results...and SKs. It's nothing new to this period in ham radio. But ham radio has also been full of interesting challenges too. It's never been a very homogeneous hobby. I have no predictions except things are rapidly changing and that will continue in whatever direction those entering the hobby take it. The Baofeng Techs will change it as much as us Heathkit Kids did. Change is good.

Eric KE6US

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k6dgw

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

The CWops group has a program [CW of course] called "QTX" where you keep
track of and report the number of QSO's you've had each month that
lasted over 20 mins. There's also a mini-QTX category for >10 min
QSO's. When I first decided to participate, I was limited pretty much
by available QSO's. Now, I'm much more limited by available time to
participate. Tiny resurgence in the Art of the Rag Chew?

Competition is a motivator for many young non-hams. #3 grandson once
came in while I was in a CW NAQP and asked me what I was doing. I told
him it was a contest, and his first response was, "Cool! How do you
win?" They all carry the "magic of radio" in a pocket in their cargo
shorts. What you can do with a ham radio that you can't do with a cell
phone or iPad may be of more interest to them that the radio itself.

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 12/22/2019 8:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

k6mkf

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

As a fairly active VEC, I consistently see 15 - 20 candidates taking and passing their Tech Exams and/or upgrading their Licenses at each bi-monthly session.

Many candidates are EEs or software engineers from here in Silicon Valley and other folks from all walks of life.

Seeing the excitement and joy in their faces when they learn that they passed their exam is great.

So from where I sit, things are looking up!

-- 73 de Mike Flowers, K6MKF, NCDXC - "It's about DX!"

> On Dec 23, 2019, at 10:19 AM, KENT TRIMBLE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Brethren . . .
>
> Keep in mind that while the hair gets grayer, attendance at Dayton was at an all-time second high last May.
>
> According to the FCC, the number of American licensees is at an all-time high.
>
> ARRL reports membership over 170,000, also an all-time high.
>
> When those three figures start falling it will be time for pessimism. Until then, let's talk positive, act positive, and be positive.
>
> 73,
>
> Kent K9ZTV
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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k6dgw

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

It has been noted that 83.295% of people make up their own statistics.
Thus encouraged ...

The 2018 ARRL Annual Report says that 2018 ended with 156,899 members,
and the somewhat-difficult-to-read little graph indicates that it fell
for 11 of the 12 months. 2017 began at about 163,000 and fell to about
159,500 again in 11 of the 12 months [graph isn't well quantified]. It
has been falling for a long time, and 170,000 is not an all-time high.

More significant is the fraction of total licensees who are ARRL members
[similar to market share for a business], a number that has been
steadily dropping for some time and is somewhere in the mid-teens
today. It is heavily weighted toward older Extra class hams. ARRL took
a huge membership hit in the later 60's when its Incentive Licensing
proposal was adopted by the FCC and General class licensee's lost big
chunks of their spectrum. It's been pretty much downhill ever since.

The absolute number of US licensed amateurs has trended upward over the
years, but the fraction of the US population who are hams bounces around
0.2% - 0.3% [it's about 0.23% right now]. I've been "in" Dayton during
Hamvention several times, sadly at WPAFB working and not at Hara or
Xenia, so I can't speak to attendance, but in principle, as the
population rises, the absolute number of hams rises, and it's reasonable
to expect attendance at large famous events to rise also.

Wayne began this thread for very good reasons. The vast majority of new
hams are Technicians, most of them will remain Technicians, many will
disappear, not many will ever operate an HF transceiver or dabble in EME
or construction or satellites, not a lot know much about our National
Organization, and fewer will find reason to join. There is a very
pronounced divide and finding ways to bridge it seems like a worthwhile
endeavor. Might also sell a few more Elecraft radios. [:=))

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 12/23/2019 10:21 AM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote:

> Brethren . . .
>
> Keep in mind that while the hair gets grayer, attendance at Dayton was
> at an all-time second high last May.
>
> According to the FCC, the number of American licensees is at an
> all-time high.
>
> ARRL reports membership over 170,000, also an all-time high.
>
> When those three figures start falling it will be time for pessimism.
> Until then, let's talk positive, act positive, and be positive.
>
> 73,
>
> Kent K9ZTV

Edward H Russell

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by k6dgw

My son teaches in China. We are in daily contact via WeChat. The medium is reliable and expedient, but in comparison to amateur radio the atmosphere is completely different. There is no sense of that realm of nature – the electromagnetic spectrum – and all of its interesting quirks, its foibles.

Being on a ham band is an adventure in a magical space, a space that was completely unknown until the late nineteenth century. Once it was discovered, the exploration began. Most of us got in on it while it was filled with excitement and innovation.

In addition to the technical aspect though, were the conversations with fellow hams. The comradery was like a fraternal order. We shared unique knowledge and experience.

One aspect of that experience that I enjoy the most is the way conversation is enmeshed in and modulated by atmospheric and ionospheric effects. I can recall many roundtables, where the distinctness of the personalities was uniquely shaded by the transmission quality of their rigs, the radiation characteristics of their antennas, their physical locations relative to me, and of course, band conditions.

This mysterious aspect of radio communications has been shed by the process of digitalization. The internet of course has its own sort of quirks. My son and I have to deal with China politics and VPN shutdowns. The equipment hums, clicks, freezes, and crashes. But these are experienced as technical problems. There is no sense of the force of nature, the invisible power of electromagnetic waves.

Even in ham radio some of that sense is being lost. In our process of going digital, the immediacy of radio has been undermined by latency. Also new digital modes have been introduced that are beginning to approximate the impersonality of the internet. But to me those are not really a problem because the magic and mystery of radio is still alive.

If we can find ways to communicate that message, to instill or revive that sense – the miracle of radio and the wonder of our fraternity – then it can be restored to its former glory. For nothing has really changed. Electromagnetic fields are all around us. It’s just that we have begun to take it for granted.

So I suggest that while we work with the digital future, also to get grounded in the wonder that initially inspired us all: radio communication.

Thanks,

73 Ed w2rf

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Fred Jensen
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 2:00 To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

The CWops group has a program [CW of course] called "QTX" where you keep track of and report the number of QSO's you've had each month that lasted over 20 mins. There's also a mini-QTX category for >10 min QSO's. When I first decided to participate, I was limited pretty much by available QSO's. Now, I'm much more limited by available time to participate. Tiny resurgence in the Art of the Rag Chew?

Competition is a motivator for many young non-hams. #3 grandson once came in while I was in a CW NAQP and asked me what I was doing. I told him it was a contest, and his first response was, "Cool! How do you win?" They all carry the "magic of radio" in a pocket in their cargo shorts. What you can do with a ham radio that you can't do with a cell phone or iPad may be of more interest to them that the radio itself.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW

Sparks NV DM09dn

Washoe County

On 12/22/2019 8:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one

> communications with someone who we have never met - without the need

> for the internet, Facebook or any other internet app.

> It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone

> new via ham radio.

>

> Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the

> emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with

> someone new to get to know something about them personally or their

> location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that

> element being diminished.

>

> Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and

> 40 meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about

> ourselves and getting the same in return.

>

> 73,

> Don W3FPR

>

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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by k6dgw

The 170,00 figure is dated January, 2016, and is the latest available
from the ARRL website.

http://www.arrl.org/arrl-fact-sheet

Who validated your 83.295%, Fred?

73,

Kent K9ZTV

On 12/23/2019 2:47 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> It has been noted that 83.295% of people make up their own
> statistics. Thus encouraged ...
>
> The 2018 ARRL Annual Report says that 2018 ended with 156,899 members,
> and the somewhat-difficult-to-read little graph indicates that it fell
> for 11 of the 12 months. 2017 began at about 163,000 and fell to
> about 159,500 again in 11 of the 12 months [graph isn't well
> quantified]. It has been falling for a long time, and 170,000 is not
> an all-time high.
>

k6dgw

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

Hmmm ... the 2018 Annual Report is on the ARRL site and it contains
membership data thru the end of that year. At any rate, ARRL membership
numbers [both total and % of ham population] have been declining for a
number of years.

>Who validated your 83.295%, Fred?

The phrase and number were coined by one of my former bosses. In
keeping with the phrase, I think he made the number up, I could always
count on him to be scrupulously consistent. I would be extraordinarily
surprised if anyone validated the number and given news from Washington
DC these days, I think it may be low. [:=)

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 12/23/2019 2:44 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote:

> The 170,00 figure is dated January, 2016, and is the latest available
> from the ARRL website.
>
> http://www.arrl.org/arrl-fact-sheet
>
> Who validated your 83.295%, Fred?
>
> 73,
>
> Kent K9ZTV

donovanf

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by EricJ-2

Eric,

If you've grown tired of the usual awards, there's the "Alphabet Sandwich"
Call Letter Award. See page 4:

https://ftp.unpad.ac.id/orari/orari-diklat/pemula/organisasi/internasional/REG%203/JAPAN.pdf

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Eric J" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 6:56:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

I mean this sincerely. I'm NOT in grumpy-old-man mode, though I can do that very well. The majority of QSOs with new people are about as interesting, enduring and deep as a short chat in the checkout line at Safeway. Many aren't even that interesting. PSK ops just throw on a brag tape and walk away. It's a pleasant few minutes, but it rarely leads to anything more. It does happen, but who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars and hours on the outside chance it does? The opportunity for superficial chit chat with strangers was NEVER on my mind at 14 when I got interested in ham radio so it's a bit much to expect teenagers today to care about that.

Ham radio has always been chock full of quick award-qualifying or contest contacts. Worked All Continents, countries, states, provinces, counties, grids, lighthouses, summits, guys named Fred. Go back as far as you want in QST and it's full of honor rolls, contest results...and SKs. It's nothing new to this period in ham radio. But ham radio has also been full of interesting challenges too. It's never been a very homogeneous hobby. I have no predictions except things are rapidly changing and that will continue in whatever direction those entering the hobby take it. The Baofeng Techs will change it as much as us Heathkit Kids did. Change is good.

Eric KE6US

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W8JH

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by k6dgw

>Who validated your 83.295%, Fred?

I can vouch for the 83.295% and add that it is well known that 89.774852% of
people readily accept more specific statistics.

-----
73,

Joe, W8JH

K3s, KPA 500, KAT 500 and KX3 happy user.
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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73,

Joe, W8JH

K3s, KPA 500, KAT 500 and KX3 happy user.

Stephen Shearer

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by k6dgw

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x6x_6mDVlQ from the RSGB in UK.
See all the YOUTH...
ARRL has missed the "boat"...

73, steve WB3LGC

On 12/23/19 6:24 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> Hmmm ... the 2018 Annual Report is on the ARRL site and it contains
> membership data thru the end of that year. At any rate, ARRL
> membership numbers [both total and % of ham population] have been
> declining for a number of years.
>
> >Who validated your 83.295%, Fred?
>
> The phrase and number were coined by one of my former bosses. In
> keeping with the phrase, I think he made the number up, I could always
> count on him to be scrupulously consistent. I would be
> extraordinarily surprised if anyone validated the number and given
> news from Washington DC these days, I think it may be low. [:=)
>
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 12/23/2019 2:44 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote:
>> The 170,00 figure is dated January, 2016, and is the latest available
>> from the ARRL website.
>>
>> http://www.arrl.org/arrl-fact-sheet
>>
>> Who validated your 83.295%, Fred?
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Kent K9ZTV
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

EricJ-2

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by donovanf

malwarebytes says, "Website blocked due to trojan." SO FAR, I have never had that issue come up on the air. I suppose it would be possible to pass along viruses via digital modes. Maybe THAT would make new hams feel at home.

Eric KE6US

On 12/23/2019 7:59 PM, [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
Eric,

If you've grown tired of the usual awards, there's the "Alphabet Sandwich"
Call Letter Award. See page 4:

https://ftp.unpad.ac.id/orari/orari-diklat/pemula/organisasi/internasional/REG%203/JAPAN.pdf

73
Frank
W3LPL

________________________________
From: "Eric J" <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 6:56:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

I mean this sincerely. I'm NOT in grumpy-old-man mode, though I can do that very well. The majority of QSOs with new people are about as interesting, enduring and deep as a short chat in the checkout line at Safeway. Many aren't even that interesting. PSK ops just throw on a brag tape and walk away. It's a pleasant few minutes, but it rarely leads to anything more. It does happen, but who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars and hours on the outside chance it does? The opportunity for superficial chit chat with strangers was NEVER on my mind at 14 when I got interested in ham radio so it's a bit much to expect teenagers today to care about that.

Ham radio has always been chock full of quick award-qualifying or contest contacts. Worked All Continents, countries, states, provinces, counties, grids, lighthouses, summits, guys named Fred. Go back as far as you want in QST and it's full of honor rolls, contest results...and SKs. It's nothing new to this period in ham radio. But ham radio has also been full of interesting challenges too. It's never been a very homogeneous hobby. I have no predictions except things are rapidly changing and that will continue in whatever direction those entering the hobby take it. The Baofeng Techs will change it as much as us Heathkit Kids did. Change is good.

Eric KE6US

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Stephen Shearer

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by donovanf

Walter,

Someone did comment (maybe a different thread/group) about reading
Scouter and Boys Life at the barber shop and noted that ARRL has NO ads
about radio in the mags. He or someone else noted that SWL mags have no
ARRL ads, either...

I think ARRL has "missed the boat"...

ARRL has flyers for DIY, but no "push" to the youth to go along with it.

Radio Merit Badge does at least provide a sample of ham radio...

73/YIS, Steve WB3LGC

On 12/24/19 1:06 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> Interesting that nobody has yet mentioned Scouting and Jamboree on the Air (JOTA).
>
> Here is an article about a troop using amateur radio to coordinate dispersed camping groups and train for em-comm.
>
> https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2019/12/24/assistant-scoutmasters-help-scouts-get-trained-to-be-amateur-radio-operators/
>
> A troop in our area uses radios to allow groups of older youth to hike in separate groups. The fast group (always the youth, oddly) checks in every 15 minutes. If they can’t make contact, they stop until they can. With a license, they can switch from FRS/GMRS to amateur bands and hike with a bigger gap.
>
> JOTA is on the third full weekend of October every year. This year, we had over 9000 Scouts participate in the US.
>
> https://k2bsa.net/jota-usa-reports/
>
> From running a JOTA station a couple of times, I believe that prospective hams have just as wide a range of interests as active hams. We need a shotgun approach with each pellet (metaphor falling apart here) being someone who is excited about that activity. You don’t have to be an expert—I ran the “send your name in Morse Code” station and I’m not a CW operator—but you do need to represent how that activity could be exciting.
>
> Hands on, do everything hands on. No butts in seats for PowerPoint. Anybody ever say “I think I’ll go home and watch a nice PowerPoint preso tonight”?
>
> Here are some photos from our JOTA station this year. I’m the guy with the white hair. Oh, that doesn’t help. White hair and beard. Note the empty log sheet in front of the KX-line. HF was pretty dead. Must do digital modes next year.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/walter_underwood/albums/72157711437854946
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> Radio Scouting Chair, Pacific Skyline Council
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/walterunderwood/
>
>> On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:59 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>> Eric,
>>
>>
>> If you've grown tired of the usual awards, there's the "Alphabet Sandwich"
>> Call Letter Award. See page 4:
>>
>>
>> https://ftp.unpad.ac.id/orari/orari-diklat/pemula/organisasi/internasional/REG%203/JAPAN.pdf
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Frank
>> W3LPL
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "Eric J" <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 6:56:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
>>
>> I mean this sincerely. I'm NOT in grumpy-old-man mode, though I can do that very well. The majority of QSOs with new people are about as interesting, enduring and deep as a short chat in the checkout line at Safeway. Many aren't even that interesting. PSK ops just throw on a brag tape and walk away. It's a pleasant few minutes, but it rarely leads to anything more. It does happen, but who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars and hours on the outside chance it does? The opportunity for superficial chit chat with strangers was NEVER on my mind at 14 when I got interested in ham radio so it's a bit much to expect teenagers today to care about that.
>>
>> Ham radio has always been chock full of quick award-qualifying or contest contacts. Worked All Continents, countries, states, provinces, counties, grids, lighthouses, summits, guys named Fred. Go back as far as you want in QST and it's full of honor rolls, contest results...and SKs. It's nothing new to this period in ham radio. But ham radio has also been full of interesting challenges too. It's never been a very homogeneous hobby. I have no predictions except things are rapidly changing and that will continue in whatever direction those entering the hobby take it. The Baofeng Techs will change it as much as us Heathkit Kids did. Change is good.
>>
>> Eric KE6US
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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Phil Kane-2

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by EricJ-2

On 12/24/2019 9:56 AM, Eric J wrote:

> malwarebytes says, "Website blocked due to trojan." SO FAR, I have
> never had that issue come up on the air. I suppose it would be
> possible to pass along viruses via digital modes. Maybe THAT would
> make new hams feel at home.

What, never had a carrier thrown on you or on the QSO that you were part
of? Not that I encourage it...

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Dave Heil

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

During my embassy assignments in Guinea Bissaue, Sierra Leone and Botswana, I participated in JOTA with Cincinnati Boy Scouts through N8DL. I even had Botswana Scouts in my shack to speak with the Cincinnati scouts.I don't ever recalling ARRL adverts in Boy's Life but plenty of stories in the magazine mentioning amateur radio and the League. Perhaps one of you will write one.Dave K8MNSent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Walter Underwood <[hidden email]> Date: 12/24/19 13:08 (GMT-05:00) To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide Interesting that nobody has yet mentioned Scouting and Jamboree on the Air (JOTA).Here is an article about a troop using amateur radio to coordinate dispersed camping groups and train for em-comm.https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2019/12/24/assistant-scoutmasters-help-scouts-get-trained-to-be-amateur-radio-operators/A troop in our area uses radios to allow groups of older youth to hike in separate groups. The fast group (always the youth, oddly) checks in every 15 minutes. If they can’t make contact, they stop until they can. With a license, they can switch from FRS/GMRS to amateur bands and hike with a bigger gap.JOTA is on the third full weekend of October every year. This year, we had over 9000 Scouts participate in the US. https://k2bsa.net/jota-usa-reports/From running a JOTA station a couple of times, I believe that prospective hams have just as wide a range of interests as active hams. We need a shotgun approach with each pellet (metaphor falling apart here) being someone who is excited about that activity. You don’t have to be an expert—I ran the “send your name in Morse Code” station and I’m not a CW operator—but you do need to represent how that activity could be exciting. Hands on, do everything hands on. No butts in seats for PowerPoint. Anybody ever say “I think I’ll go home and watch a nice PowerPoint preso tonight”? Here are some photos from our JOTA station this year. I’m the guy with the white hair. Oh, that doesn’t help. White hair and beard. Note the empty log sheet in front of the KX-line. HF was pretty dead. Must do digital modes next year.https://www.flickr.com/photos/walter_underwood/albums/72157711437854946 wunderK6WRUWalter UnderwoodRadio Scouting Chair, Pacific Skyline Councilhttp://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)https://www.linkedin.com/in/walterunderwood/> On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:59 PM, [hidden email] wrote:> > Eric, > > > If you've grown tired of the usual awards, there's the "Alphabet Sandwich" > Call Letter Award. See page 4: > > > https://ftp.unpad.ac.id/orari/orari-diklat/pemula/organisasi/internasional/REG%203/JAPAN.pdf > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "Eric J" <[hidden email]> > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 6:56:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide > > I mean this sincerely. I'm NOT in grumpy-old-man mode, though I can do that very well. The majority of QSOs with new people are about as interesting, enduring and deep as a short chat in the checkout line at Safeway. Many aren't even that interesting. PSK ops just throw on a brag tape and walk away. It's a pleasant few minutes, but it rarely leads to anything more. It does happen, but who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars and hours on the outside chance it does? The opportunity for superficial chit chat with strangers was NEVER on my mind at 14 when I got interested in ham radio so it's a bit much to expect teenagers today to care about that. > > Ham radio has always been chock full of quick award-qualifying or contest contacts. Worked All Continents, countries, states, provinces, counties, grids, lighthouses, summits, guys named Fred. Go back as far as you want in QST and it's full of honor rolls, contest results...and SKs. It's nothing new to this period in ham radio. But ham radio has also been full of interesting challenges too. It's never been a very homogeneous hobby. I have no predictions except things are rapidly changing and that will continue in whatever direction those entering the hobby take it. The Baofeng Techs will change it as much as us Heathkit Kids did. Change is good. > > Eric KE6US > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > > ______________________________________________________________> Elecraft mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:[hidden email]> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email]
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Edward R Cole

Re: Reaching Across the Chronological Divide

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Sub-Topic: survival in emergencies.

I had a good "taste"of that a few years ago when the road from
Anchorage to the Kenai Peninsula (pop 60K) (where I live) was blocked
by avalanches for three weeks. All store products come by truck down
that 180-mile road (there is only one road). Power ties were cut but
we have local generation plants plus a hydro-plant, so outage was
short. My biggest emergency was feeding my twelve sled dogs; stores
ran out animal feed real quick.

I use to live in a small town which lost power and phones during the
avalanche. Convenience store's freezers thawed out and town had a
serious supply problem. National Guard flew in a standby generator
for them after two weeks. Town had one gas station so ran out. One
ham lived there to get the word out.

Having lived ten years off the grid in that town, I had good training
on surviving. I had no electric, telephone, or water. Fifteen
gallons of chainsaw fuel was my annual heating bill. Lights and
stove by Coleman were propane (bout three months per
bottle). Freezer was a military container out in a snow bank.

So about eight years ago we bought a 6500w Honda generator to power
the house. We have natural gas appliances and a well so only need
electricity to be independent. I keep 20 gallons of fuel for the
generator which will carry us about five days. Only have one house
dog so that is easier.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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