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SKN 2012

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John Oppenheimer

SKN 2012

Straight Key Night is just a under two hours away:
http://www.arrl.org/straight-key-night

If you have a straight key, and maybe a vintage CW station, then it's
time to get on the air. Those of you that have a K2, then you may have a
vintage rig ready to go:

vin·tage
adj.
1. Of or relating to a vintage.
2. Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic.
3. Old or outmoded.

Is the year for the K2 the date it was designed, a decade ago, or when
it was built? My K2 is vintage 2011.

The K2 is absolutely; excellent, very mature, and, because it's still
sold today, must have an enduring appeal.

Alas, the K2 is old and outmoded, as it will soon be replaced by many KX3s.

Happy New Year,
John, KN5L
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stan levandowski

Re: SKN 2012

I've got a homebrew 6C4 driving a 5763 to 8 watts input *somewhere*
around 7.028 +/- the drift ;) but my K2 is my receiver for tonight and
the T/R relay is Phil Salas' AD5X version from an old QST. We're
definitely *not* talking QSK here, folks!! Made one "warm-up" QSO
today with KE3NE and realized the old fist just ain't what it used to be
!!! Happy New Year and Happy SKN.

Stan WB2LQF

On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 5:27 PM, John Oppenheimer wrote:

> Straight Key Night is just a under two hours away:
> http://www.arrl.org/straight-key-night
>
> If you have a straight key, and maybe a vintage CW station, then it's
> time to get on the air. Those of you that have a K2, then you may have
> a
> vintage rig ready to go:
>
> vin·tage
> adj.
> 1. Of or relating to a vintage.
> 2. Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal;
> classic.
> 3. Old or outmoded.
>
> Is the year for the K2 the date it was designed, a decade ago, or when
> it was built? My K2 is vintage 2011.
>
> The K2 is absolutely; excellent, very mature, and, because it's still
> sold today, must have an enduring appeal.
>
> Alas, the K2 is old and outmoded, as it will soon be replaced by many
> KX3s.
>
> Happy New Year,
> John, KN5L
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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ny4g

Re: SKN 2012

In reply to this post by John Oppenheimer

John
I agree with everything except for number 3. For those of us to have, keep and own a rig where we soldered on the components and qualify as a homebrew transceiver in many homebrew contests, and be proud to say that it has been soldered together by "ME", the K2 will never be replaced. Besides, if anything ever broke on it, I can probably fix it by going to a local electronic parts store and repair the broken components. The K2 will go the way of the Kenwood TS830S, an irreplaceable classic - only my humble opinion. The ergonomics of the K2 design makes it the classic CW rig.
Ariel

> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 16:27:56 -0600
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] SKN 2012
>
> Straight Key Night is just a under two hours away:
> http://www.arrl.org/straight-key-night
>
> If you have a straight key, and maybe a vintage CW station, then it's
> time to get on the air. Those of you that have a K2, then you may have a
> vintage rig ready to go:
>
> vin·tage
> adj.
> 1. Of or relating to a vintage.
> 2. Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic.
> 3. Old or outmoded.
>
> Is the year for the K2 the date it was designed, a decade ago, or when
> it was built? My K2 is vintage 2011.
>
> The K2 is absolutely; excellent, very mature, and, because it's still
> sold today, must have an enduring appeal.
>
> Alas, the K2 is old and outmoded, as it will soon be replaced by many KX3s.
>
> Happy New Year,
> John, KN5L
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: SKN 2012

In reply to this post by John Oppenheimer

John,

If you think my fully upgraded (and packed with all options for a QRP
K2) original Field Test K2 SN 00020 will be replaced by a KX3, you have
another "think" coming.
Yes, I will have a KX3, but that old K2 will still be "rolling along".
It may not do prime duty in the home station - the K3 takes of that, and
it will no longer be the Field Radio of Choice once the KX3 is in hand,
but it will sit faithfully on the operating desk and be used in sort of
an SO2R position with the K3.
I hope my heirs treat it with respect as well, but that is out of my
control. So in the future, if you youngsters run across a K2 SN 00020,
know that it was mine, and it was never sold in my lifetime.

Oh yes, Happy New Year to all - 2011 is just about gone.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/31/2011 5:27 PM, John Oppenheimer wrote:

> Straight Key Night is just a under two hours away:
> http://www.arrl.org/straight-key-night
>
> If you have a straight key, and maybe a vintage CW station, then it's
> time to get on the air. Those of you that have a K2, then you may have a
> vintage rig ready to go:
>
> vin·tage
> adj.
> 1. Of or relating to a vintage.
> 2. Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic.
> 3. Old or outmoded.
>
> Is the year for the K2 the date it was designed, a decade ago, or when
> it was built? My K2 is vintage 2011.
>
> The K2 is absolutely; excellent, very mature, and, because it's still
> sold today, must have an enduring appeal.
>
> Alas, the K2 is old and outmoded, as it will soon be replaced by many KX3s.
>
> Happy New Year,
> John, KN5L
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

John Oppenheimer

Re: SKN 2012

On 12/31/2011 05:15 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> John,
>
> If you think my fully upgraded (and packed with all options for a QRP
> K2) original Field Test K2 SN 00020 will be replaced by a KX3, you have
> another "think" coming.

Hi Don, obviously, your K2 #20, same as my K2/10 #7212, fits the
"Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic"
category. Some day I shall have a QRP rig trophy case; presently, I have
a HW-8, IC-703, and K2/10. All three were/are well used with enduring
memories.

John
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: SKN 2012

John,

FB on your "Trophy Case". I do not have any trophy case of past rigs.
I do have some of my old tube receivers stowed away in the attic - I
don't know why, but I just can't part with them and since they are
homebrew, they are not regarded as classics to be rebuilt.
I did sell my BC-348 long ago and have regretted it, I don't know what
happened to the SW-54 receiver I used as a novice (any questions about
why I did not have many contacts?), and the nice homebrew transmitter I
built for my Novice station was cannibalized for parts to be used in
other projects (teenager with limited monetary resources).

So you see, I am not in the habit of buying gear with any mind toward
selling it in the future, nor do I wish to put all my past homebrew
projects on display (although that may be worthy of some consideration
for what is left in my collection).

I do have an attachment to those things that I build, and if I have
built them for myself, would never consider selling them. I just keep
them around so I can look at them once in a while and "remember when".

You do not have to understand nor agree with my personal version of
nostalgia, but as we look back (hey, it is New Year's Eve - a time for
looking back and anticipating the future) we can enjoy our past
accomplishments and take lessons from those things that did not turn out
so well.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/31/2011 6:36 PM, John Oppenheimer wrote:

> On 12/31/2011 05:15 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> If you think my fully upgraded (and packed with all options for a QRP
>> K2) original Field Test K2 SN 00020 will be replaced by a KX3, you have
>> another "think" coming.
> Hi Don, obviously, your K2 #20, same as my K2/10 #7212, fits the
> "Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic"
> category. Some day I shall have a QRP rig trophy case; presently, I have
> a HW-8, IC-703, and K2/10. All three were/are well used with enduring
> memories.
>
> John
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Ray Cadmus

Re: SKN 2012

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

I think I understand your feelings about the old K2.

I owned, for a time, serial #7. I didn't build it myself - I acquired
it from a ham in Canada. There was a somewhat mystical quality felt in
having one of the early ones - wish I had it back :-( . It went for a
good cause though... and I did get a K1 in trade. A somewhat local ham
was looking for a K2 but, time being limited, settled for the K1. When
I heard I, made the swap (some boot - I'm not that generous). He had it
and, I assume, enjoyed it for the better part of a year before the big C
took him.

Some day I'll get another K2 - but it won't be quite the same.

73,

ray W0PFO

--

On 12/31/2011 05:15 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> John,
>
> If you think my fully upgraded (and packed with all options for a QRP
> K2) original Field Test K2 SN 00020 will be replaced by a KX3, you have
> another "think" coming.
> Yes, I will have a KX3, but that old K2 will still be "rolling along".
> It may not do prime duty in the home station - the K3 takes of that, and
> it will no longer be the Field Radio of Choice once the KX3 is in hand,
> but it will sit faithfully on the operating desk and be used in sort of
> an SO2R position with the K3.
> I hope my heirs treat it with respect as well, but that is out of my
> control. So in the future, if you youngsters run across a K2 SN 00020,
> know that it was mine, and it was never sold in my lifetime.
>
> Oh yes, Happy New Year to all - 2011 is just about gone.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>

Matt Zilmer

K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

In all this time with K3 #24, I've never been stymied by any issue
such as described below.

I'm a Navy-Marine Corps MARS member. We use RMS Express in the WL2K
system on HF, running WL2K Winmor mode The software I have is version
1.1.3.0.

I also use LP Bridge to create two COM ports: one used for DTR (PTT)
and the other for control, COM19 and COM20 respectively. The sound
card is an EMU 0202.

The problem is this: When RMS Express takes control of the K3,
calling an RMS node on HF *always* results in the receive frequency
being 1.5 KHz too high. I've had to rotate the RIT between call-up
transmissions to get the RX on frequency before the initial 5 attempts
time out. The TX frequency seems dead-on, because the RMS always
answers - but RX is 1.5 KHz high. And yes, I've tested with multiple
RMS nodes, including my own NMCM RMS here at the shack. Same problem
occurs with each, so it's a setup issue with software or the K3 here.

RMS Express sends the following commands after it's set the COM20 comm
parameters:

FR0; # cancel split
RT0; # RIT OFF
XT0; # XIT OFF
MD6; # TX DATA mode
DT0; # DATA A sub-mode of TX DATA

The sequence above is sent once at the beginning of an RMS Express
call-up of the remote node. Only COM19's DTR is used to assert PTT
for transmissions.

Just for grins, I checked the various meta-modes the K3 is in. I
discovered that even though AI is set to ZERO, I'm still getting IF
annunciations back from the K3. Odd, that.

K31; # K3 extended commands enabled
K22; # K2 extended " "
AI0; # AUTOINF OFF

Since split and the incremental controls are off and ZEROed, I'm
totally blind to what's going on. VFO A is on the correct frequency
in each case (for each RMS Node), which means to me that RX and TX
actual frequencies should be the same.

Any ideas what's causing this?

73 and HNY,
matt W6NIA, NNN0UET

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Nr4c

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

Well, this is normal for digital mode DATA A. I'm not familiar with your
particular software, but for PSK31 and similar modes, the K3 VFO A is set to
a frequency for the carrier. The audio is on the upper sideband, and is
centered in the 3 KHz passband which is 1.5kHz up from the carrier. Thus
the offset. Some digital software has an allowance for an offset, but I'm
not sure about yours. You might check on this.

Typically if operating on 20 meters with radio set to 14.070MHz, the
waterfall will be full of traces at audio frequencies spread across the
passband of your radio. So you actual transmission freq is the sum of VFO
plus the audio.

...bill nr4c

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Zilmer [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 11:31 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

In all this time with K3 #24, I've never been stymied by any issue
such as described below.

I'm a Navy-Marine Corps MARS member. We use RMS Express in the WL2K
system on HF, running WL2K Winmor mode The software I have is version
1.1.3.0.

I also use LP Bridge to create two COM ports: one used for DTR (PTT)
and the other for control, COM19 and COM20 respectively. The sound
card is an EMU 0202.

The problem is this: When RMS Express takes control of the K3,
calling an RMS node on HF *always* results in the receive frequency
being 1.5 KHz too high. I've had to rotate the RIT between call-up
transmissions to get the RX on frequency before the initial 5 attempts
time out. The TX frequency seems dead-on, because the RMS always
answers - but RX is 1.5 KHz high. And yes, I've tested with multiple
RMS nodes, including my own NMCM RMS here at the shack. Same problem
occurs with each, so it's a setup issue with software or the K3 here.

RMS Express sends the following commands after it's set the COM20 comm
parameters:

FR0; # cancel split
RT0; # RIT OFF
XT0; # XIT OFF
MD6; # TX DATA mode
DT0; # DATA A sub-mode of TX DATA

The sequence above is sent once at the beginning of an RMS Express
call-up of the remote node. Only COM19's DTR is used to assert PTT
for transmissions.

Just for grins, I checked the various meta-modes the K3 is in. I
discovered that even though AI is set to ZERO, I'm still getting IF
annunciations back from the K3. Odd, that.

K31; # K3 extended commands enabled
K22; # K2 extended " "
AI0; # AUTOINF OFF

Since split and the incremental controls are off and ZEROed, I'm
totally blind to what's going on. VFO A is on the correct frequency
in each case (for each RMS Node), which means to me that RX and TX
actual frequencies should be the same.

Any ideas what's causing this?

73 and HNY,
matt W6NIA, NNN0UET

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Matt Zilmer

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

Thanks for your reply, Bill.

I verified that the software is setting the correct carrier freq,
based on the center freq cited by the MARS frequency matrix. I was
thinking along the same lines as your suggestion below.

If I use program control to set the freq, then I get TX + 1.5 KHz =
RX. This is with split disabled and RIT / XIT turned off.

Temporarily, I'm manually setting the carrier freq to 1.5 KHz below
center instead of relying on the control program to do this. That
solved the problem, but doesn't explain why the radio has carrier freq
centered on the freq only under program control.

Mysteries....

73,
matt W6NIA / NNN0UET

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 13:21:51 -0500, you wrote:

>Well, this is normal for digital mode DATA A. I'm not familiar with your
>particular software, but for PSK31 and similar modes, the K3 VFO A is set to
>a frequency for the carrier. The audio is on the upper sideband, and is
>centered in the 3 KHz passband which is 1.5kHz up from the carrier. Thus
>the offset. Some digital software has an allowance for an offset, but I'm
>not sure about yours. You might check on this.
>
>Typically if operating on 20 meters with radio set to 14.070MHz, the
>waterfall will be full of traces at audio frequencies spread across the
>passband of your radio. So you actual transmission freq is the sum of VFO
>plus the audio.
>
>...bill nr4c
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Zilmer [mailto:[hidden email]]
>Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 11:31 AM
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: [Elecraft] K3: data modes - bizarre behavior
>
>In all this time with K3 #24, I've never been stymied by any issue
>such as described below.
>
>I'm a Navy-Marine Corps MARS member. We use RMS Express in the WL2K
>system on HF, running WL2K Winmor mode The software I have is version
>1.1.3.0.
>
>I also use LP Bridge to create two COM ports: one used for DTR (PTT)
>and the other for control, COM19 and COM20 respectively. The sound
>card is an EMU 0202.
>
>The problem is this: When RMS Express takes control of the K3,
>calling an RMS node on HF *always* results in the receive frequency
>being 1.5 KHz too high. I've had to rotate the RIT between call-up
>transmissions to get the RX on frequency before the initial 5 attempts
>time out. The TX frequency seems dead-on, because the RMS always
>answers - but RX is 1.5 KHz high. And yes, I've tested with multiple
>RMS nodes, including my own NMCM RMS here at the shack. Same problem
>occurs with each, so it's a setup issue with software or the K3 here.
>
>RMS Express sends the following commands after it's set the COM20 comm
>parameters:
>
> FR0; # cancel split
> RT0; # RIT OFF
> XT0; # XIT OFF
> MD6; # TX DATA mode
> DT0; # DATA A sub-mode of TX DATA
>
>The sequence above is sent once at the beginning of an RMS Express
>call-up of the remote node. Only COM19's DTR is used to assert PTT
>for transmissions.
>
>Just for grins, I checked the various meta-modes the K3 is in. I
>discovered that even though AI is set to ZERO, I'm still getting IF
>annunciations back from the K3. Odd, that.
>
> K31; # K3 extended commands enabled
> K22; # K2 extended " "
> AI0; # AUTOINF OFF
>
>Since split and the incremental controls are off and ZEROed, I'm
>totally blind to what's going on. VFO A is on the correct frequency
>in each case (for each RMS Node), which means to me that RX and TX
>actual frequencies should be the same.
>
>Any ideas what's causing this?
>
>73 and HNY,
>matt W6NIA, NNN0UET
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

Matt,

I too believe your software does not compensate for how the K3 handles
(and displays) the frequency when in DATA A mode. The K3 indicates the
suppressed carrier frequency rather than the Passband center frequency.

It sounds like your software is trying to set the K3 to the channel
center frequency. Just as a guess, that might be SOP for government
gear, but not for most ham rigs which refer to the suppressed carrier
frequency..

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/1/2012 2:25 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:

> Thanks for your reply, Bill.
>
> I verified that the software is setting the correct carrier freq,
> based on the center freq cited by the MARS frequency matrix. I was
> thinking along the same lines as your suggestion below.
>
> If I use program control to set the freq, then I get TX + 1.5 KHz =
> RX. This is with split disabled and RIT / XIT turned off.
>
> Temporarily, I'm manually setting the carrier freq to 1.5 KHz below
> center instead of relying on the control program to do this. That
> solved the problem, but doesn't explain why the radio has carrier freq
> centered on the freq only under program control.
>
> Mysteries....
>
> 73,
> matt W6NIA / NNN0UET
>
>
>
> On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 13:21:51 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> Well, this is normal for digital mode DATA A. I'm not familiar with your
>> particular software, but for PSK31 and similar modes, the K3 VFO A is set to
>> a frequency for the carrier. The audio is on the upper sideband, and is
>> centered in the 3 KHz passband which is 1.5kHz up from the carrier. Thus
>> the offset. Some digital software has an allowance for an offset, but I'm
>> not sure about yours. You might check on this.
>>
>> Typically if operating on 20 meters with radio set to 14.070MHz, the
>> waterfall will be full of traces at audio frequencies spread across the
>> passband of your radio. So you actual transmission freq is the sum of VFO
>> plus the audio.
>>
>> ...bill nr4c
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Matt Zilmer [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 11:31 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: data modes - bizarre behavior
>>
>> In all this time with K3 #24, I've never been stymied by any issue
>> such as described below.
>>
>> I'm a Navy-Marine Corps MARS member. We use RMS Express in the WL2K
>> system on HF, running WL2K Winmor mode The software I have is version
>> 1.1.3.0.
>>
>> I also use LP Bridge to create two COM ports: one used for DTR (PTT)
>> and the other for control, COM19 and COM20 respectively. The sound
>> card is an EMU 0202.
>>
>> The problem is this: When RMS Express takes control of the K3,
>> calling an RMS node on HF *always* results in the receive frequency
>> being 1.5 KHz too high. I've had to rotate the RIT between call-up
>> transmissions to get the RX on frequency before the initial 5 attempts
>> time out. The TX frequency seems dead-on, because the RMS always
>> answers - but RX is 1.5 KHz high. And yes, I've tested with multiple
>> RMS nodes, including my own NMCM RMS here at the shack. Same problem
>> occurs with each, so it's a setup issue with software or the K3 here.
>>
>> RMS Express sends the following commands after it's set the COM20 comm
>> parameters:
>>
>> FR0; # cancel split
>> RT0; # RIT OFF
>> XT0; # XIT OFF
>> MD6; # TX DATA mode
>> DT0; # DATA A sub-mode of TX DATA
>>
>> The sequence above is sent once at the beginning of an RMS Express
>> call-up of the remote node. Only COM19's DTR is used to assert PTT
>> for transmissions.
>>
>> Just for grins, I checked the various meta-modes the K3 is in. I
>> discovered that even though AI is set to ZERO, I'm still getting IF
>> annunciations back from the K3. Odd, that.
>>
>> K31; # K3 extended commands enabled
>> K22; # K2 extended " "
>> AI0; # AUTOINF OFF
>>
>> Since split and the incremental controls are off and ZEROed, I'm
>> totally blind to what's going on. VFO A is on the correct frequency
>> in each case (for each RMS Node), which means to me that RX and TX
>> actual frequencies should be the same.
>>
>> Any ideas what's causing this?
>>
>> 73 and HNY,
>> matt W6NIA, NNN0UET
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

KXBill

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

I think you nailed it Don! My list of Government frequencies showes both the dial frequency and the center, which is off set by 1500 Hz.
Carry-on
Bill-w7kxb

> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:48:58 -0500
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: data modes - bizarre behavior
>
> Matt,
>

> It sounds like your software is trying to set the K3 to the channel
> center frequency. Just as a guess, that might be SOP for government
> gear, but not for most ham rigs which refer to the suppressed carrier
> frequency..
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Stephen G4SJP

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

What Don is saying is certainly true for the UK military HF gear I have
used. Centre of channel is always 1500Hz higher than the suppressed
carrier frequency.

73 Stephen G4SJP

On 1 January 2012 19:48, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> <snip>
> It sounds like your software is trying to set the K3 to the channel
> center frequency. Just as a guess, that might be SOP for government
> gear, but not for most ham rigs which refer to the suppressed carrier
> frequency..
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

Matt,

> I verified that the software is setting the correct carrier freq,
> based on the center freq cited by the MARS frequency matrix. I was
> thinking along the same lines as your suggestion below.

Standard practice in government operation - including MARS in recent
years - is to specify the "center of channel" and *not* the USB dial
frequency. The two frequencies will differ by 1400 to 1500 Hz based
on the particular assumptions used for the transmitter with 1500 Hz
being slightly more common.

I suspect you will find your MARS matrix specifies "center of channel"
for all digital and any remaining CW networks while still giving USB
suppressed carrier frequency for voice networks.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 1/1/2012 2:25 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:

W4GRJ

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

Matt,

Just leave the K3 in USB, do not change to data mode. RMS Express will set to the correct freq. You will not have to make any adjustments.

Jack
W4GRJ / AFA4DG

On Jan 1, 2012, at 11:30, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In all this time with K3 #24, I've never been stymied by any issue
> such as described below.
>
> I'm a Navy-Marine Corps MARS member. We use RMS Express in the WL2K
> system on HF, running WL2K Winmor mode The software I have is version
> 1.1.3.0.
>
> I also use LP Bridge to create two COM ports: one used for DTR (PTT)
> and the other for control, COM19 and COM20 respectively. The sound
> card is an EMU 0202.
>
> The problem is this: When RMS Express takes control of the K3,
> calling an RMS node on HF *always* results in the receive frequency
> being 1.5 KHz too high. I've had to rotate the RIT between call-up
> transmissions to get the RX on frequency before the initial 5 attempts
> time out. The TX frequency seems dead-on, because the RMS always
> answers - but RX is 1.5 KHz high. And yes, I've tested with multiple
> RMS nodes, including my own NMCM RMS here at the shack. Same problem
> occurs with each, so it's a setup issue with software or the K3 here.
>
> RMS Express sends the following commands after it's set the COM20 comm
> parameters:
>
> FR0; # cancel split
> RT0; # RIT OFF
> XT0; # XIT OFF
> MD6; # TX DATA mode
> DT0; # DATA A sub-mode of TX DATA
>
> The sequence above is sent once at the beginning of an RMS Express
> call-up of the remote node. Only COM19's DTR is used to assert PTT
> for transmissions.
>
> Just for grins, I checked the various meta-modes the K3 is in. I
> discovered that even though AI is set to ZERO, I'm still getting IF
> annunciations back from the K3. Odd, that.
>
> K31; # K3 extended commands enabled
> K22; # K2 extended " "
> AI0; # AUTOINF OFF
>
> Since split and the incremental controls are off and ZEROed, I'm
> totally blind to what's going on. VFO A is on the correct frequency
> in each case (for each RMS Node), which means to me that RX and TX
> actual frequencies should be the same.
>
> Any ideas what's causing this?
>
> 73 and HNY,
> matt W6NIA, NNN0UET
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Matt Zilmer

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Hi Don,

I've captured the commands sent to the K3 prior to TX on the assigned
frequency:

FA0000FFFFfff; # FFFFfff is the correct carrier frequency.
FR0;
RT0;
XT0;
MD;
DT0;

I'm still mystified, since the FA command is setting the correct cxr
frequency.

It is also true that RMS Express uses frequencies with the center
frequency shown, however it compensates by subtracing off half the
channel width to set the carrier freq.

Thanks and 73,
matt W6NIA

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 14:48:58 -0500, you wrote:

>Matt,
>
>I too believe your software does not compensate for how the K3 handles
>(and displays) the frequency when in DATA A mode. The K3 indicates the
>suppressed carrier frequency rather than the Passband center frequency.
>
>It sounds like your software is trying to set the K3 to the channel
>center frequency. Just as a guess, that might be SOP for government
>gear, but not for most ham rigs which refer to the suppressed carrier
>frequency..
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>
>On 1/1/2012 2:25 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
>> Thanks for your reply, Bill.
>>
>> I verified that the software is setting the correct carrier freq,
>> based on the center freq cited by the MARS frequency matrix. I was
>> thinking along the same lines as your suggestion below.
>>
>> If I use program control to set the freq, then I get TX + 1.5 KHz =
>> RX. This is with split disabled and RIT / XIT turned off.
>>
>> Temporarily, I'm manually setting the carrier freq to 1.5 KHz below
>> center instead of relying on the control program to do this. That
>> solved the problem, but doesn't explain why the radio has carrier freq
>> centered on the freq only under program control.
>>
>> Mysteries....
>>
>> 73,
>> matt W6NIA / NNN0UET
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 13:21:51 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>> Well, this is normal for digital mode DATA A. I'm not familiar with your
>>> particular software, but for PSK31 and similar modes, the K3 VFO A is set to
>>> a frequency for the carrier. The audio is on the upper sideband, and is
>>> centered in the 3 KHz passband which is 1.5kHz up from the carrier. Thus
>>> the offset. Some digital software has an allowance for an offset, but I'm
>>> not sure about yours. You might check on this.
>>>
>>> Typically if operating on 20 meters with radio set to 14.070MHz, the
>>> waterfall will be full of traces at audio frequencies spread across the
>>> passband of your radio. So you actual transmission freq is the sum of VFO
>>> plus the audio.
>>>
>>> ...bill nr4c
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Matt Zilmer [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 11:31 AM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: data modes - bizarre behavior
>>>
>>> In all this time with K3 #24, I've never been stymied by any issue
>>> such as described below.
>>>
>>> I'm a Navy-Marine Corps MARS member. We use RMS Express in the WL2K
>>> system on HF, running WL2K Winmor mode The software I have is version
>>> 1.1.3.0.
>>>
>>> I also use LP Bridge to create two COM ports: one used for DTR (PTT)
>>> and the other for control, COM19 and COM20 respectively. The sound
>>> card is an EMU 0202.
>>>
>>> The problem is this: When RMS Express takes control of the K3,
>>> calling an RMS node on HF *always* results in the receive frequency
>>> being 1.5 KHz too high. I've had to rotate the RIT between call-up
>>> transmissions to get the RX on frequency before the initial 5 attempts
>>> time out. The TX frequency seems dead-on, because the RMS always
>>> answers - but RX is 1.5 KHz high. And yes, I've tested with multiple
>>> RMS nodes, including my own NMCM RMS here at the shack. Same problem
>>> occurs with each, so it's a setup issue with software or the K3 here.
>>>
>>> RMS Express sends the following commands after it's set the COM20 comm
>>> parameters:
>>>
>>> FR0; # cancel split
>>> RT0; # RIT OFF
>>> XT0; # XIT OFF
>>> MD6; # TX DATA mode
>>> DT0; # DATA A sub-mode of TX DATA
>>>
>>> The sequence above is sent once at the beginning of an RMS Express
>>> call-up of the remote node. Only COM19's DTR is used to assert PTT
>>> for transmissions.
>>>
>>> Just for grins, I checked the various meta-modes the K3 is in. I
>>> discovered that even though AI is set to ZERO, I'm still getting IF
>>> annunciations back from the K3. Odd, that.
>>>
>>> K31; # K3 extended commands enabled
>>> K22; # K2 extended " "
>>> AI0; # AUTOINF OFF
>>>
>>> Since split and the incremental controls are off and ZEROed, I'm
>>> totally blind to what's going on. VFO A is on the correct frequency
>>> in each case (for each RMS Node), which means to me that RX and TX
>>> actual frequencies should be the same.
>>>
>>> Any ideas what's causing this?
>>>
>>> 73 and HNY,
>>> matt W6NIA, NNN0UET
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>

Matt Zilmer

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Thanks, Joe. I've been with MARS for a few years now and understand
the "channel center" frequency matrix.

This is a case where the string setting the K3's carrier freq is
setting the correct value. There is something odd at work here.

matt

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 15:47:51 -0500, you wrote:

>
>Matt,
>
> > I verified that the software is setting the correct carrier freq,
> > based on the center freq cited by the MARS frequency matrix. I was
> > thinking along the same lines as your suggestion below.
>
>Standard practice in government operation - including MARS in recent
>years - is to specify the "center of channel" and *not* the USB dial
>frequency. The two frequencies will differ by 1400 to 1500 Hz based
>on the particular assumptions used for the transmitter with 1500 Hz
>being slightly more common.
>
>I suspect you will find your MARS matrix specifies "center of channel"
>for all digital and any remaining CW networks while still giving USB
>suppressed carrier frequency for voice networks.
>
>73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>On 1/1/2012 2:25 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
>> Thanks for your reply, Bill.
>>
>> I verified that the software is setting the correct carrier freq,
>> based on the center freq cited by the MARS frequency matrix. I was
>> thinking along the same lines as your suggestion below.
>>
>> If I use program control to set the freq, then I get TX + 1.5 KHz =
>> RX. This is with split disabled and RIT / XIT turned off.
>>
>> Temporarily, I'm manually setting the carrier freq to 1.5 KHz below
>> center instead of relying on the control program to do this. That
>> solved the problem, but doesn't explain why the radio has carrier freq
>> centered on the freq only under program control.
>>
>> Mysteries....
>>
>> 73,
>> matt W6NIA / NNN0UET
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 13:21:51 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>> Well, this is normal for digital mode DATA A. I'm not familiar with your
>>> particular software, but for PSK31 and similar modes, the K3 VFO A is set to
>>> a frequency for the carrier. The audio is on the upper sideband, and is
>>> centered in the 3 KHz passband which is 1.5kHz up from the carrier. Thus
>>> the offset. Some digital software has an allowance for an offset, but I'm
>>> not sure about yours. You might check on this.
>>>
>>> Typically if operating on 20 meters with radio set to 14.070MHz, the
>>> waterfall will be full of traces at audio frequencies spread across the
>>> passband of your radio. So you actual transmission freq is the sum of VFO
>>> plus the audio.
>>>
>>> ...bill nr4c
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Matt Zilmer [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 11:31 AM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: data modes - bizarre behavior
>>>
>>> In all this time with K3 #24, I've never been stymied by any issue
>>> such as described below.
>>>
>>> I'm a Navy-Marine Corps MARS member. We use RMS Express in the WL2K
>>> system on HF, running WL2K Winmor mode The software I have is version
>>> 1.1.3.0.
>>>
>>> I also use LP Bridge to create two COM ports: one used for DTR (PTT)
>>> and the other for control, COM19 and COM20 respectively. The sound
>>> card is an EMU 0202.
>>>
>>> The problem is this: When RMS Express takes control of the K3,
>>> calling an RMS node on HF *always* results in the receive frequency
>>> being 1.5 KHz too high. I've had to rotate the RIT between call-up
>>> transmissions to get the RX on frequency before the initial 5 attempts
>>> time out. The TX frequency seems dead-on, because the RMS always
>>> answers - but RX is 1.5 KHz high. And yes, I've tested with multiple
>>> RMS nodes, including my own NMCM RMS here at the shack. Same problem
>>> occurs with each, so it's a setup issue with software or the K3 here.
>>>
>>> RMS Express sends the following commands after it's set the COM20 comm
>>> parameters:
>>>
>>> FR0; # cancel split
>>> RT0; # RIT OFF
>>> XT0; # XIT OFF
>>> MD6; # TX DATA mode
>>> DT0; # DATA A sub-mode of TX DATA
>>>
>>> The sequence above is sent once at the beginning of an RMS Express
>>> call-up of the remote node. Only COM19's DTR is used to assert PTT
>>> for transmissions.
>>>
>>> Just for grins, I checked the various meta-modes the K3 is in. I
>>> discovered that even though AI is set to ZERO, I'm still getting IF
>>> annunciations back from the K3. Odd, that.
>>>
>>> K31; # K3 extended commands enabled
>>> K22; # K2 extended " "
>>> AI0; # AUTOINF OFF
>>>
>>> Since split and the incremental controls are off and ZEROed, I'm
>>> totally blind to what's going on. VFO A is on the correct frequency
>>> in each case (for each RMS Node), which means to me that RX and TX
>>> actual frequencies should be the same.
>>>
>>> Any ideas what's causing this?
>>>
>>> 73 and HNY,
>>> matt W6NIA, NNN0UET
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

Matt,

What does your frequency matrix say for "center of channel" and
what is RMS Express setting for DATA A dial (USB carrier) frequency?

In DATA A, the dial frequency is identical to the USB carrier
frequency.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 1/1/2012 4:25 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:

> Thanks, Joe. I've been with MARS for a few years now and understand
> the "channel center" frequency matrix.
>
> This is a case where the string setting the K3's carrier freq is
> setting the correct value. There is something odd at work here.
>
> matt
>
> On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 15:47:51 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>>> I verified that the software is setting the correct carrier freq,
>>> based on the center freq cited by the MARS frequency matrix. I was
>>> thinking along the same lines as your suggestion below.
>>
>> Standard practice in government operation - including MARS in recent
>> years - is to specify the "center of channel" and *not* the USB dial
>> frequency. The two frequencies will differ by 1400 to 1500 Hz based
>> on the particular assumptions used for the transmitter with 1500 Hz
>> being slightly more common.
>>
>> I suspect you will find your MARS matrix specifies "center of channel"
>> for all digital and any remaining CW networks while still giving USB
>> suppressed carrier frequency for voice networks.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 1/1/2012 2:25 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
>>> Thanks for your reply, Bill.
>>>
>>> I verified that the software is setting the correct carrier freq,
>>> based on the center freq cited by the MARS frequency matrix. I was
>>> thinking along the same lines as your suggestion below.
>>>
>>> If I use program control to set the freq, then I get TX + 1.5 KHz =
>>> RX. This is with split disabled and RIT / XIT turned off.
>>>
>>> Temporarily, I'm manually setting the carrier freq to 1.5 KHz below
>>> center instead of relying on the control program to do this. That
>>> solved the problem, but doesn't explain why the radio has carrier freq
>>> centered on the freq only under program control.
>>>
>>> Mysteries....
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> matt W6NIA / NNN0UET
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 13:21:51 -0500, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, this is normal for digital mode DATA A. I'm not familiar with your
>>>> particular software, but for PSK31 and similar modes, the K3 VFO A is set to
>>>> a frequency for the carrier. The audio is on the upper sideband, and is
>>>> centered in the 3 KHz passband which is 1.5kHz up from the carrier. Thus
>>>> the offset. Some digital software has an allowance for an offset, but I'm
>>>> not sure about yours. You might check on this.
>>>>
>>>> Typically if operating on 20 meters with radio set to 14.070MHz, the
>>>> waterfall will be full of traces at audio frequencies spread across the
>>>> passband of your radio. So you actual transmission freq is the sum of VFO
>>>> plus the audio.
>>>>
>>>> ...bill nr4c
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Matt Zilmer [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 11:31 AM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: data modes - bizarre behavior
>>>>
>>>> In all this time with K3 #24, I've never been stymied by any issue
>>>> such as described below.
>>>>
>>>> I'm a Navy-Marine Corps MARS member. We use RMS Express in the WL2K
>>>> system on HF, running WL2K Winmor mode The software I have is version
>>>> 1.1.3.0.
>>>>
>>>> I also use LP Bridge to create two COM ports: one used for DTR (PTT)
>>>> and the other for control, COM19 and COM20 respectively. The sound
>>>> card is an EMU 0202.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is this: When RMS Express takes control of the K3,
>>>> calling an RMS node on HF *always* results in the receive frequency
>>>> being 1.5 KHz too high. I've had to rotate the RIT between call-up
>>>> transmissions to get the RX on frequency before the initial 5 attempts
>>>> time out. The TX frequency seems dead-on, because the RMS always
>>>> answers - but RX is 1.5 KHz high. And yes, I've tested with multiple
>>>> RMS nodes, including my own NMCM RMS here at the shack. Same problem
>>>> occurs with each, so it's a setup issue with software or the K3 here.
>>>>
>>>> RMS Express sends the following commands after it's set the COM20 comm
>>>> parameters:
>>>>
>>>> FR0; # cancel split
>>>> RT0; # RIT OFF
>>>> XT0; # XIT OFF
>>>> MD6; # TX DATA mode
>>>> DT0; # DATA A sub-mode of TX DATA
>>>>
>>>> The sequence above is sent once at the beginning of an RMS Express
>>>> call-up of the remote node. Only COM19's DTR is used to assert PTT
>>>> for transmissions.
>>>>
>>>> Just for grins, I checked the various meta-modes the K3 is in. I
>>>> discovered that even though AI is set to ZERO, I'm still getting IF
>>>> annunciations back from the K3. Odd, that.
>>>>
>>>> K31; # K3 extended commands enabled
>>>> K22; # K2 extended " "
>>>> AI0; # AUTOINF OFF
>>>>
>>>> Since split and the incremental controls are off and ZEROed, I'm
>>>> totally blind to what's going on. VFO A is on the correct frequency
>>>> in each case (for each RMS Node), which means to me that RX and TX
>>>> actual frequencies should be the same.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas what's causing this?
>>>>
>>>> 73 and HNY,
>>>> matt W6NIA, NNN0UET
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

Matt,

Did you make a typo on that MD; command - if that is really what is
being sent, that is a GET - it should be MD6; for normal sideband in
data mode. The rest all looks correct, but there may be some subtle
problem with the order in which the commands are sent.

The mystery deepens.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/1/2012 4:18 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:

> Hi Don,
>
> I've captured the commands sent to the K3 prior to TX on the assigned
> frequency:
>
> FA0000FFFFfff; # FFFFfff is the correct carrier frequency.
> FR0;
> RT0;
> XT0;
> MD;
> DT0;
>
> I'm still mystified, since the FA command is setting the correct cxr
> frequency.
>
> It is also true that RMS Express uses frequencies with the center
> frequency shown, however it compensates by subtracing off half the
> channel width to set the carrier freq.
>
> Thanks and 73,
> matt W6NIA
>
>

Richard Ferch

Re: K3: data modes - bizarre behavior

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

W4GRJ wrote:

> Just leave the K3 in USB, do not change to data mode. RMS Express will set to
> the correct freq. You will not have to make any adjustments.

If this is correct, and RMS Express tunes to the correct frequency in
USB mode but not in DATA A mode, then there may be an error in RMS
Express. DATA A is exactly the same as USB except for disabling
compression and EQ and the default choice of input audio path (line in
instead of microphone). In particular, the frequency display in DATA A
and USB is the same. A setup that works in USB should work in DATA A
without changes.

What I suspect might be happening is that RMS Express might be
programmed to handle DATA A as if it were a USB version of AFSK A. In
AFSK A, the K3's dial displays the RTTY mark frequency, whereas in DATA
A the dial displays the suppressed carrier frequency. If the RMS Express
programmers assumed that in DATA A the radio's indicated frequency was
the center of the bandpass instead of the suppressed carrier frequency,
they would program it to tune the radio 1.5 kHz too high in DATA A.

73,
Rich VE3KI

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html