Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

n7ws
Just not enough power.

--- On Thu, 5/19/11, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Phil Hystad <[hidden email]>

> Wes,
>
> Add a KPA500 to your setup.  It gives you all you ask
> for: easier (aka quicker) band switching, very simple
> display (interpret as nicer), FET finals, and definitely
> enough weight.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

vk8fqrp
G'day All,

I have managed to remain awake awaiting more info from Dayton!!

Anyone in Dayton have some further info or pics??!

Regards

Brendon

VK8FQRP
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Merv Schweigert
In reply to this post by n7ws
Not enough power and way too many bucks.

On another subject,  why do you guys all buy QRP, limited
function radios and then wish to add a 100 watt amp?

And another subject,  no one has commented on the thread that
was going on about improving the DSP NR etc for the K3,  and
the fact that the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer
better chip??   Leaves the K3 owners kinda out to dry dont it?
Kinda the stuff that we always criticize YeaComWood for doing
when a new model came out and the old one could not be
updated?   Or is a K4 around?


Just asking,  Merv  K9FD/KH6


> Just not enough power.
>
> --- On Thu, 5/19/11, Phil Hystad<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>    
>> From: Phil Hystad<[hidden email]>
>>      
>    
>> Wes,
>>
>> Add a KPA500 to your setup.  It gives you all you ask
>> for: easier (aka quicker) band switching, very simple
>> display (interpret as nicer), FET finals, and definitely
>> enough weight.
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>      
> ______________________________________________________________
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>    

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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Wayne Conrad
On 05/20/11 09:03, Merv Schweigert wrote:
> On another subject,  why do you guys all buy QRP, limited
> function radios and then wish to add a 100 watt amp?

It's the easy-payment plan for full power.  Spend some now, some more later.

A QRP rig with an external amp can be a full-power base station _or_ a
highly portable QRP rig.

73, Wayne Conrad (soaking in morse code for healthy skin)
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Julius Fazekas n2wn
In reply to this post by Merv Schweigert
<quote author="Merv Schweigert">
Not enough power and way too many bucks.

Too much power... only want a max of 150 watts out (considered LP in some contests);o)

On another subject,  why do you guys all buy QRP, limited
function radios and then wish to add a 100 watt amp?

Sometimes I run QRP, sometimes I run LP in contests... usually run LP when chasing new ones, but not always.

And another subject,  no one has commented on the thread that
was going on about improving the DSP NR etc for the K3,  and
the fact that the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer
better chip??   Leaves the K3 owners kinda out to dry dont it?
Kinda the stuff that we always criticize YeaComWood for doing
when a new model came out and the old one could not be
updated?   Or is a K4 around?


I won't feel left out with my K3s, same as I didn't feel left out with my K2... The KX3 will have it's place. Until specifications are published and verified, everything else is pure speculation. Don't think one could place Elecraft in the same class as other manufacturers when it comes to upgrades, or service. Elecraft IMHO is miles above the rest. They have always come through for me quickly and without any fuss.

If they had stock, I'd buy!

Hope you're doing well Merv.

72/3,
Julius

Making a better tomorrow, tomorrow.
Julius Fazekas
N2WN

Tennessee Contest Group
http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

Tennessee QSO Party
http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2        #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366
Elecraft K3/100
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Tony Estep
In reply to this post by Merv Schweigert
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Merv Schweigert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ...the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer
> better chip...


Maybe there'll be a retrofit for the K3.

Tony KT0NY
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Tim Heasman
My thoughts exactly.

Tim gm4lmh

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tony Estep" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:00 PM
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Merv Schweigert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ...the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer
>> better chip...
>
>
> Maybe there'll be a retrofit for the K3.
>
> Tony KT0NY
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Dick Dickinson
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
The K3 Noise Blanker is a good candidate.

 

 

73,

Dick - KA5KKT

--------------------------------------------------

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

Tim gm4lmh

 

--------------------------------------------------

From: "Tony Estep" < <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
esteptony at gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:00 PM

To: < <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> elecraft at
mailman.qth.net>

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

 

> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Merv Schweigert <
<http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> k9fd at flex.com> wrote:

>

>> ...the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer

>> better chip...

>

>

> Maybe there'll be a retrofit for the K3.

>

> Tony KT0NY

> ______________________________________________________________

> Elecraft mailing list

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at mailman.qth.net

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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Bill W4ZV
In reply to this post by Merv Schweigert
Merv Schweigert wrote
And another subject,  no one has commented on the thread that
was going on about improving the DSP NR etc for the K3,  and
the fact that the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer
better chip??  
You may be reading too much into Lyle's actual words:

"The microcontroller is like, but not the same as, the one in the K3. The
DSP is a new, 5th generation device designed for extremely low power
consumption, yet with performance exceeding that of the one in the K3."

Merv I believe Lyle is saying the DSP chip is new...not the firmware driving it.  I believe the idea of the KX3 is to save development time and cost by porting the K3's DSP firmware to the KX3's DSP.  The "performance" he refers to may be speed (in addition to lower power consumption), but  I don't believe speed is a limiting factor in the K3's present DSP (but I could be wrong for timing issues such as QSK).  BTW both DSPs are 32 bit so there's no difference there.

73,  Bill
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Ken Alexander-2
In reply to this post by Merv Schweigert
--- On Fri, 5/20/11, Merv Schweigert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> And another subject,  no one has commented on the thread that
> was going on about improving the DSP NR etc for the K3,  and
> the fact that the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer
> better chip??   Leaves the K3 owners kinda out to dry dont it?

When you purchase technology you get what's available at the time.  The K3 is a snapshot of the best that was available when they designed it.  Same with the K3X.  Don't fault them for looking around and finding something better.  If the new DSP chip happens to be a pin-for-pin, drop-in replacement for the existing chip then maybe you'll get lucky.  We'll see.

> Kinda the stuff that we always criticize YeaComWood for doing
> when a new model came out and the old one could not be updated?   Or is a K4 around?

They probably don't deserve the criticism either.  If you bought a new Chevy with a 200 hp engine, and the next year they'd managed to tweak another 20 hp out of the same engine would you take your car back to the dealer and demand they replace the engine for you?

73,

Ken Alexander
VE3HLS

Contentedly working DX with the stone-age DSP in my K2.
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Re: [Elecraft_K3] Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Randy Hall
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Photos, thanks to Jeff, KE9V

http://twitpic.com/photos/ke9v

Randy
K7AGE

On Wednesday, May 18, 2011, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

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> DSP/SDR, 1.5 lbs.
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> See it at Dayton!
>
> -- Wayne & Eric
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

n7ws
In reply to this post by Dick Dickinson
The post-filter amp and second mixer are much better candidates.  They are the weakest points in the whole radio. IMHO, of course :-)

Wes  N7WS

--- On Fri, 5/20/11, Edward Dickinson III <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The K3 Noise Blanker is a good
> candidate.
> 73,
>
> Dick - KA5KKT
>
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>  
>
> My thoughts exactly.
>
>  
>
> Tim gm4lmh
>
>  
>
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> From: "Tony Estep" < <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> esteptony at gmail.com>
>
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:00 PM
>
> To: < <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> elecraft at
> mailman.qth.net>
>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Something *really* new at Dayton
> from Elecraft
>
>  
>
> > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Merv Schweigert
> <
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> k9fd at flex.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> ...the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and
> newer
>
> >> better chip...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Maybe there'll be a retrofit for the K3.
>
> >
>
> > Tony KT0NY
>
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Tom KG3V
The KX3 really looks interesting. Any comments on the availability of a Kit, and what level of assembly would be required/possible?

Thanks,

Tom, KG3V
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Doug Person-3
The "Official" word that I got is that they "hope" to have it out by the
end of the year.
Doug -- K0DXV

On 5/20/2011 6:55 PM, Tom KG3V wrote:

> The KX3 really looks interesting. Any comments on the availability of a Kit,
> and what level of assembly would be required/possible?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom, KG3V
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Something-really-new-at-Dayton-from-Elecraft-tp6380523p6388331.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Guy, K2AV
In reply to this post by Merv Schweigert
Doesn't your speculation presume that all the noise reduction
functionality IS IN HARDWARE?  Last I looked at the K3 functionality,
all the NR is in PROGRAM CODE, not burned into hardware chips.  Go
read the schematic.  And since Wayne has been good about keeping up K3
firmware, why would he code something new in the KX3 and not use the
code and/or concept in the K3 to extend the product life?  I smell
analog thinking.

Possibly if it does do something because more processing power is
available, that's progress in the electronics industry, not some evil
Elecraft conspiracy.  AND retrofitting a newer CPU in existing
equipment is extremely expensive.  Upgraded circuit board, TWO paths
of firmware development instead of one, etc, etc.

Be careful when you compare Wayne to Yakencom.  He REALLY does not
deserve that.

73, Guy.

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Merv Schweigert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> And another subject,  no one has commented on the thread that
> was going on about improving the DSP NR etc for the K3,  and
> the fact that the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer
> better chip??   Leaves the K3 owners kinda out to dry dont it?
> Kinda the stuff that we always criticize YeaComWood for doing
> when a new model came out and the old one could not be
> updated?   Or is a K4 around?
>
>
> Just asking,  Merv  K9FD/KH6
>
>
>> Just not enough power.
>>
>> --- On Thu, 5/19/11, Phil Hystad<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> From: Phil Hystad<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>
>>> Wes,
>>>
>>> Add a KPA500 to your setup.  It gives you all you ask
>>> for: easier (aka quicker) band switching, very simple
>>> display (interpret as nicer), FET finals, and definitely
>>> enough weight.
>>>
>>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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>>
>
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

PD2R
Wayne, Eric and the rest of the Elecraft crew, congratulations on your great
new transceiver.
The new KX3 looks really neat and it has a couple of very nice features. The
Dual watch is a feature I would really love to see on my K3 because I don't
have a second receiver.
Since there is a optional second receiver available for the K3 it will
probably not be available for the K3.
Now, I'm not a technical person but I'm just wandering if a feature like
dual watch can be added to a K3 by a software update at all?

...A man can dream can't he? ;-)
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Maarten, PD2R
Member of the PI4DX contest group
www.pi4dx.com

Elecraft K3 nr:1849
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Edward R Cole
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Why does everyone assume the K3 will be obsoleted by hardware?  The
core of the K3 is a SDR which has continued to evolve with firmware
upgrades.  I would not count out the possibility of further
improvement in the DSP sw.

In time the basic processor will become obsolete.  So maybe a replace
cpu board could be done?

Of course Elecraft might decide to abandon the K3 with an
introduction of a K4, but they still make the K2 and KX1.  What does
that tell you?  I think the Elecraft folks pride themselves in not
abandoning their customers.

73, Ed - KL7UW
BTW nicely done on the KX3!  If it had 2m I could consider it
replacing my FT-817, but it would have to be embedded inside the KX3.

------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 13:00:13 -0500
From: Tony Estep <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Merv Schweigert <[hidden email]> wrote:

 > ...the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer
 > better chip...


Maybe there'll be a retrofit for the K3.

Tony KT0NY





73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-testing*, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

wayne burdick
Administrator
The KX3's DSP was selected primarily for its low power consumption. The use of this DSP in the KX3 has no effect on K3 DSP firmware development, which is ongoing. Just ask Lyle :)

Wayne
N6KR

----
http://www.elecraft.com

On May 21, 2011, at 4:07 AM, "Edward R. Cole" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Why does everyone assume the K3 will be obsoleted by hardware?  The
> core of the K3 is a SDR which has continued to evolve with firmware
> upgrades.  I would not count out the possibility of further
> improvement in the DSP sw.
>
> In time the basic processor will become obsolete.  So maybe a replace
> cpu board could be done?
>
> Of course Elecraft might decide to abandon the K3 with an
> introduction of a K4, but they still make the K2 and KX1.  What does
> that tell you?  I think the Elecraft folks pride themselves in not
> abandoning their customers.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> BTW nicely done on the KX3!  If it had 2m I could consider it
> replacing my FT-817, but it would have to be embedded inside the KX3.
>
> ------------------------------
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 13:00:13 -0500
> From: Tony Estep <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Merv Schweigert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ...the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer
>> better chip...
>
>
> Maybe there'll be a retrofit for the K3.
>
> Tony KT0NY
>
>
>
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
> ======================================
> BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
> EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-testing*, 3400-?
> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
> ======================================
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Merv Schweigert
In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV


> Doesn't your speculation presume that all the noise reduction
> functionality IS IN HARDWARE?  Last I looked at the K3 functionality,
> all the NR is in PROGRAM CODE, not burned into hardware chips.
Nope not at all Guy,  one thing if you program any at all you will find
is you cannot speed up a
chip or increase its capability with programming.  If your out of speed
and memory there is
nothing in programming you can do about it,  time to upgrade to a newer
faster chip, so its
a handshake between programming and the hardwares capability.

>   Go
> read the schematic.  And since Wayne has been good about keeping up K3
> firmware, why would he code something new in the KX3 and not use the
> code and/or concept in the K3 to extend the product life?  I smell
> analog thinking.
>    
No analog thinking at all,  your are wrong.  why would they do in a KX3
what cannot be updgraded
to a K3?  Because a K4 is on the line for one thing,  and another could
be to keep the company going,
your going to have to buy a new radio every few years if you want E to
continue.   Every product has to have a limit and
life end.  They will continue to "upgrade" the K3 as much as possible I
am sure and support it,
but newer and better has to come along and sales have to continue.
And better cheaper chips come along, why not use them?  Whats wrong with
that?
> Possibly if it does do something because more processing power is
> available, that's progress in the electronics industry, not some evil
> Elecraft conspiracy.  AND retrofitting a newer CPU in existing
> equipment is extremely expensive.  Upgraded circuit board, TWO paths
> of firmware development instead of one, etc, etc.
>    
You hit the nail on the head,  expensive to upgrade,  that will be the
limiting factor with
continued K3 updgrades,  thats why I referred to a K4 and was asking if
the newer chips
etc were not a preview of things to come in another radio.
Who said Elecraft was Evil??  you sure surmise a lot of things that are
not said at all,
I have never had a better company to deal with,  I have no gripes at all.

I am not anxious to see my K3 go to the "second best" pile I guess,  if
the K4 comes along and
is better than my K3 that means I must buy another radio or settle for
second best.
If your a person who finally bit the bullet and bought a new K3
yesterday,  and today they
announcement comes out for a much improved K4,  are you a happy camper??
But thats life.
There are small "bugs" in the K3 I would like to see improved but afraid
some are in hardware
(not analog) that cannot be addressed at a cost that is bearable,  the
software ones can be
addressed to some extent,  if the "hardware" is capable of the speed and
memory requirements.
I am sure they will do what is possible for the money involved to keep
the K3 going and
up to date.  The K3 is reaching the edge of the "hardwares" capability
in a couple areas and
I think its time for a K4 with increased speed in the "chips" and
horsepower to overcome
some of these problems.
> Be careful when you compare Wayne to Yakencom.  He REALLY does not
> deserve that.
>
>    
Oh come on Guy,  are you the overseer of Elecraft?  the moderator of the
list?  are you
going to send a couple of hit men from the east coast out here to find
me?  Dont threaten
me with be careful,   if anything I said offended Wayne he is certainly
grown up and can
defend himself,  I have nothing but respect for him and the company, if
not I would not
own their product,  go sit down and have another glass of Kool Aide and
Kool off.
Dont send any hit men out here please,  we dont need any more shark
bait,  thats where
they would end up.
73 Merv

> 73, Guy.
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Merv Schweigert<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>    
>> And another subject,  no one has commented on the thread that
>> was going on about improving the DSP NR etc for the K3,  and
>> the fact that the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer
>> better chip??   Leaves the K3 owners kinda out to dry dont it?
>> Kinda the stuff that we always criticize YeaComWood for doing
>> when a new model came out and the old one could not be
>> updated?   Or is a K4 around?
>>
>>
>> Just asking,  Merv  K9FD/KH6
>>
>>
>>      
>>> Just not enough power.
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 5/19/11, Phil Hystad<[hidden email]>    wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> From: Phil Hystad<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>        
>>>> Wes,
>>>>
>>>> Add a KPA500 to your setup.  It gives you all you ask
>>>> for: easier (aka quicker) band switching, very simple
>>>> display (interpret as nicer), FET finals, and definitely
>>>> enough weight.
>>>>
>>>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>
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>>>
>>>        
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>
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>>
>>      
>    

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Re: Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft

Merv Schweigert
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Thanks Wayne,   cleared that up fast,  I read into the release info more
than what was
there,  sorry if I caused any confusion on that end.   Sure stirred up
the die hards
at least.   73 Merv

> The KX3's DSP was selected primarily for its low power consumption. The use of this DSP in the KX3 has no effect on K3 DSP firmware development, which is ongoing. Just ask Lyle :)
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ----
> http://www.elecraft.com
>
> On May 21, 2011, at 4:07 AM, "Edward R. Cole"<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>    
>> Why does everyone assume the K3 will be obsoleted by hardware?  The
>> core of the K3 is a SDR which has continued to evolve with firmware
>> upgrades.  I would not count out the possibility of further
>> improvement in the DSP sw.
>>
>> In time the basic processor will become obsolete.  So maybe a replace
>> cpu board could be done?
>>
>> Of course Elecraft might decide to abandon the K3 with an
>> introduction of a K4, but they still make the K2 and KX1.  What does
>> that tell you?  I think the Elecraft folks pride themselves in not
>> abandoning their customers.
>>
>> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>> BTW nicely done on the KX3!  If it had 2m I could consider it
>> replacing my FT-817, but it would have to be embedded inside the KX3.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 13:00:13 -0500
>> From: Tony Estep<[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Something *really* new at Dayton from Elecraft
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Message-ID:<[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Merv Schweigert<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> ...the KX3 will have a much improved DSP and newer
>>> better chip...
>>>        
>>
>> Maybe there'll be a retrofit for the K3.
>>
>> Tony KT0NY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
>> ======================================
>> BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
>> EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-testing*, 3400-?
>> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
>> ======================================
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>      
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>    

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