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Yet another product idea

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Pete Smith N4ZR

Yet another product idea

Several years ago at the Elecraft stand in Dayton I saw a prototype
1500-watt solid state amp. At the time I understood from the folks
there (and maybe from some e-mails) that it had been built using some
high-power transistors made by a company in Oregon (I think) with which
K4XU is/was associated.

I was told a couple of years ago that the K3 project had superseded the
amp, because of the much larger potential market. But now I'm wondering...

To what extent does the KPA-500 share design and/or hardware with that
prototype? Might it be feasible to build and sell a 1500-watt amp for
something approximating three times the cost of the KPA-500? Now *that*
would tempt me, even at over twice the cost of an AL-1200, for the fast
bandswitching and the quiet power.

--
73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

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David Pratt

Re: Yet another product idea

In a recent message, Pete Smith <[hidden email]> writes
>Might it be feasible to build and sell a 1500-watt amp for
>something approximating three times the cost of the KPA-500?

By all means have a go at building one, Pete, and let us know how you
get on.

There would be very limited demand for a higher power PA outside the USA
if Elecraft produced one. In Great Britain we are limited to 400W pep
output (26dBW), so even with the KPA-500 some people might be tempted to
run more than their licensed power.

73 de David G4DMP
--
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
| David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds. |
| Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk |
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Yet another product idea

> There would be very limited demand for a higher power PA outside the
> USA if Elecraft produced one.

It might be just right as a driver for some of those "I" and other
northern Mediterranean amplifiers.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 4/9/2011 11:37 AM, David Pratt wrote:

> In a recent message, Pete Smith<[hidden email]> writes
>> Might it be feasible to build and sell a 1500-watt amp for
>> something approximating three times the cost of the KPA-500?
>
> By all means have a go at building one, Pete, and let us know how you
> get on.
>
> There would be very limited demand for a higher power PA outside the USA
> if Elecraft produced one. In Great Britain we are limited to 400W pep
> output (26dBW), so even with the KPA-500 some people might be tempted to
> run more than their licensed power.
>
> 73 de David G4DMP

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GREG WILSON

Re: Yet another product idea

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

I would even be willing to " pay in advance" for this one... If it were
Elecraft, I know it would be great! 73 de Greg-N4CC

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Pete Smith
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 9:21 AM
To: Elecraft List
Subject: [Elecraft] Yet another product idea

Several years ago at the Elecraft stand in Dayton I saw a prototype
1500-watt solid state amp. At the time I understood from the folks there
(and maybe from some e-mails) that it had been built using some high-power
transistors made by a company in Oregon (I think) with which K4XU is/was
associated.

I was told a couple of years ago that the K3 project had superseded the amp,
because of the much larger potential market. But now I'm wondering...

To what extent does the KPA-500 share design and/or hardware with that
prototype? Might it be feasible to build and sell a 1500-watt amp for
something approximating three times the cost of the KPA-500? Now *that*
would tempt me, even at over twice the cost of an AL-1200, for the fast
bandswitching and the quiet power.

--
73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

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GREG WILSON

Re: Yet another product idea

In reply to this post by David Pratt

David -- the limited market would be uh -- Great Britain -- although I know
of a few Alpha's over there -- all run at 400 watts of course. 73 de
Greg-N4CC

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Pratt
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 9:38 AM
To: Elecraft List
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Yet another product idea

In a recent message, Pete Smith <[hidden email]> writes
>Might it be feasible to build and sell a 1500-watt amp for something
>approximating three times the cost of the KPA-500?

By all means have a go at building one, Pete, and let us know how you get
on.

There would be very limited demand for a higher power PA outside the USA if
Elecraft produced one. In Great Britain we are limited to 400W pep output
(26dBW), so even with the KPA-500 some people might be tempted to run more
than their licensed power.

73 de David G4DMP
--
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
| David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds. |
| Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk |
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

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Gary K9GS

Re: Yet another product idea

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

I'll second that!

On 4/9/2011 10:21 AM, Pete Smith wrote:

> Several years ago at the Elecraft stand in Dayton I saw a prototype
> 1500-watt solid state amp. At the time I understood from the folks
> there (and maybe from some e-mails) that it had been built using some
> high-power transistors made by a company in Oregon (I think) with which
> K4XU is/was associated.
>
> I was told a couple of years ago that the K3 project had superseded the
> amp, because of the much larger potential market. But now I'm wondering...
>
> To what extent does the KPA-500 share design and/or hardware with that
> prototype? Might it be feasible to build and sell a 1500-watt amp for
> something approximating three times the cost of the KPA-500? Now *that*
> would tempt me, even at over twice the cost of an AL-1200, for the fast
> bandswitching and the quiet power.
>

--

73,

Gary K9GS

Check out K9NS on the web: http://www.k9ns.com
Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com

************************************************

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Leroy

Yet another product idea

In reply to this post by David Pratt

I enjoy QRP............ Give me a KX1 that does 20, 15, and WOW, 10
mtrs! The 80mtr end

is of no use, push it up to some real low power QRP bands. Then a handheld 2
watts would

be incredible! And maybe options for 17 and 12 mtrs.

Roy
AB7CE

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ac0h

Re: Yet another product idea

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Already been done and on the market for two years.
Tokyo High Power HL-2.5KFX @ exactly 3x the price ($6K).
1500 watts from a pair of Microsemi ARF-1500 MOSFETS, rated for 1800W
dissipation between the two.
Array Solutions sells them, and the cable to interface with the K3 for
instant band switching comes with it.

- --
R. Kevin Stover

ACØH
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Yet another product idea

> Already been done and on the market for two years.

Not quite what the KPA-1500 promised -- the HL-2.5KFX does
not support SO2R or six meters.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 4/10/2011 7:51 AM, R. Kevin Stover wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> Already been done and on the market for two years.
> Tokyo High Power HL-2.5KFX @ exactly 3x the price ($6K).
> 1500 watts from a pair of Microsemi ARF-1500 MOSFETS, rated for 1800W
> dissipation between the two.
> Array Solutions sells them, and the cable to interface with the K3 for
> instant band switching comes with it.
>
> - --
> R. Kevin Stover
>
> ACØH
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>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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N5GE

Re: Yet another product idea

In reply to this post by ac0h

Are you suggesting that Elecraft buy Tokyo High Power or copy their amplifier?

Seriously. Be patient. I'm sure that any 1500w solidstate amp made by Elecraft
will be far advanced of what is available from other manufacturers now.

Tom
N5GE

On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 06:51:06 -0500, "R. Kevin Stover" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

ac0h

Re: Yet another product idea

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 4/10/2011 10:13 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
>> Already been done and on the market for two years.
>
> Not quite what the KPA-1500 promised -- the HL-2.5KFX does
> not support SO2R or six meters.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV

I don't remember seeing Elecraft promise anything in regards to a
KPA-1500. Someone saw a prototype at a Hamfest two years ago and most
everybody "assumed" it would go into production.

Doing a 160-6m solid state amp @ 1500W is going to take some mad
engineering chops and the market is puny.

Does the KPA-500 do SO2R? I see one input connector.

It's too easy to make that kind of power with tubes and I doubt Elecraft
want to take on Acom or Alpha.

- --
R. Kevin Stover

ACØH
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dj7mgq

Re: Yet another product idea

>> Not quite what the KPA-1500 promised -- the HL-2.5KFX does
>> not support SO2R or six meters.

<dream>

Two of these, MRFE6VP61K25H, should do the trick...

</dream>

vy 73 de toby, DD5FZ

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Yet another product idea

In reply to this post by ac0h

> I don't remember seeing Elecraft promise anything in regards to a
> KPA-1500.

The "specs" were for 1500 watts, 160-6m and SO2R support.

> Someone saw a prototype at a Hamfest two years ago and most
> everybody "assumed" it would go into production.

A lot of people saw prototypes of KPA-800 and KPA-1500 at Dayton
three, maybe four years ago. There was no "promise" of production
but the word was "soon."

> Doing a 160-6m solid state amp @ 1500W is going to take some mad
> engineering chops and the market is puny.

Not at all ... the controls are already there in the KPA-500. It
would take four of the KPA-500 amplifier boards with splitters and
combiners. Three might be sufficient in parallel but I'd use four
with parallel pairs in push-pull to provide plenty of headroom
after allowing for losses in the splitter/combiners.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 4/10/2011 12:05 PM, R. Kevin Stover wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> On 4/10/2011 10:13 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>>> Already been done and on the market for two years.
>>
>> Not quite what the KPA-1500 promised -- the HL-2.5KFX does
>> not support SO2R or six meters.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>
> I don't remember seeing Elecraft promise anything in regards to a
> KPA-1500. Someone saw a prototype at a Hamfest two years ago and most
> everybody "assumed" it would go into production.
>
> Doing a 160-6m solid state amp @ 1500W is going to take some mad
> engineering chops and the market is puny.
>
> Does the KPA-500 do SO2R? I see one input connector.
>
> It's too easy to make that kind of power with tubes and I doubt Elecraft
> want to take on Acom or Alpha.
>
> - --
> R. Kevin Stover
>
> ACØH
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Yet another product idea

In reply to this post by dj7mgq

Nice for pulsed or CW devices. How about specs for AB1 service
including standing current and IMD? Standing current (bias) is
critical for heat sink/cooling design. IMD capability is crucial
to how "clean" the amplifier will be.

Other than those "minor" considerations, a pair of 900W amplifiers
in push-pull (broadband 180 degree splitter and combiner) would
be very nice.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 4/10/2011 12:13 PM, Toby Deinhardt wrote:

> >> Not quite what the KPA-1500 promised -- the HL-2.5KFX does
> >> not support SO2R or six meters.
>
> <dream>
>
> Two of these, MRFE6VP61K25H, should do the trick...
>
> </dream>
>
> vy 73 de toby, DD5FZ
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Raymond Sills

Re: Yet another product idea

The spec sheet seemed to indicate the devices can be biased for
linear operation. But with over 20dB gain, the devices would have to
be reined in a bit for USA use. Looks like a pretty rugged device:

"Capable of Handling a Load Mismatch of 65:1 VSWR, @ 50 Vdc, 230 MHz,
at all Phase Angles, Designed for Enhanced Ruggedness, 1250 Watts
Pulsed Peak Power, 20% Duty Cycle, 100 µsec
Capable of 1250 Watts CW Operation
Unmatched Input and Output Allowing Wide Frequency Range Utilization
Device can be used Single-Ended or in a Push-Pull Configuration
Qualified Up to a Maximum of 50 VDD Operation
Characterized from 30 V to 50 V for Extended Power Range
Suitable for Linear Application with Appropriate Biasing
Integrated ESD Protection with Greater Negative Gate-Source Voltage
Range for Improved Class C Operation
Characterized with Series Equivalent Large-Signal Impedance Parameters
RoHS Compliant."

... according to the Freescale Semiconductor web page.

But then, I'm a QRP 5W guy.. so I won't be buying any amps. :)

73 de Ray
K2ULR

On Apr 10, 2011, at 12:31 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> Nice for pulsed or CW devices. How about specs for AB1 service
> including standing current and IMD? Standing current (bias) is
> critical for heat sink/cooling design. IMD capability is crucial
> to how "clean" the amplifier will be.
>
> Other than those "minor" considerations, a pair of 900W amplifiers
> in push-pull (broadband 180 degree splitter and combiner) would
> be very nice.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 4/10/2011 12:13 PM, Toby Deinhardt wrote:
>>>> Not quite what the KPA-1500 promised -- the HL-2.5KFX does
>>>> not support SO2R or six meters.
>>
>> <dream>
>>
>> Two of these, MRFE6VP61K25H, should do the trick...
>>
>> </dream>
>>
>> vy 73 de toby, DD5FZ
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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w0mu

Re: Yet another product idea

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

I owned a THP 1.5 for a short time. Terrible reliability. After
numerous board swaps and being told there was something wrong with my
house power I returned it. They looked nice. I will never own another
THP product again.

In short, I do not believe the THP quality is anywhere near what
Elecraft has.

On 4/10/11 9:13 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> > Already been done and on the market for two years.
>
> Not quite what the KPA-1500 promised -- the HL-2.5KFX does
> not support SO2R or six meters.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 4/10/2011 7:51 AM, R. Kevin Stover wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>>
>> Already been done and on the market for two years.
>> Tokyo High Power HL-2.5KFX @ exactly 3x the price ($6K).
>> 1500 watts from a pair of Microsemi ARF-1500 MOSFETS, rated for 1800W
>> dissipation between the two.
>> Array Solutions sells them, and the cable to interface with the K3 for
>> instant band switching comes with it.
>>
>> - --
>> R. Kevin Stover
>>
>> ACØH
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>>
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>> em4H/dV4bNuOcL48vxpraJcNmEj4PaeVNyoOgfQvetJL+F+OsBn+oZ8UzrTaXiw=
>> =fewT
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>>
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Phillip Lontz

For Mac users only

In reply to this post by Raymond Sills

Please don't ban me from this list.... because I have another stupid ground question.

I have a nice 27 inch iMac. It's very fast and runs widows and lynx as well.
The USB port works very well will K3# 4636.
The K3 is grounded to my buss under the table as are the other stuff BUT
the iMac does not have a ground post or point. It does has a third wire into the AC outlet.

The outer shell does not look like it's suitable to bond to...

Does anyone have a rough idea how to go about applying a ground strap to a iMac.

I WILL be safe this year!

Phil
Santa Fe, NM

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aandrei

Re: For Mac users only

I use a macbook pro with K3, it has been working flawlessly. I didn't see any need for grounding the mac.

Adi
2E0TTX

On 10/04/2011 19:31, Phil Townsend wrote:

> Please don't ban me from this list.... because I have another stupid ground question.
>
> I have a nice 27 inch iMac. It's very fast and runs widows and lynx as well.
> The USB port works very well will K3# 4636.
> The K3 is grounded to my buss under the table as are the other stuff BUT
> the iMac does not have a ground post or point. It does has a third wire into the AC outlet.
>
> The outer shell does not look like it's suitable to bond to...
>
> Does anyone have a rough idea how to go about applying a ground strap to a iMac.
>
> I WILL be safe this year!
>
> Phil
> Santa Fe, NM
>
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> Elecraft mailing list
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Phil Hystad-3

Re: For Mac users only

I agree. I have had at least two Mac computers in my shack since I got licensed up again in 2004. Currently I have a 17 inch Macbook Pro that I am currently typing, an iMac 24 sitting on the desk two feet from the rigs, and just add to that I have an iPad and an iPhone in the room too. Oh, and a Windows laptop in the closet. Upstairs is my wife's iMac-27 and her iPhone. Oh, I forgot, I have an iPhone in the desk too but it is currently off and no SIM card in it.

The rigs are: Elecraft K3+P3 and Icom 756 Pro III plus PW-1 1KW linear. Never a problem.

73, phil, K7PEH

P.S. I think if you ground your iMac you might cause memory leaks :-)

On Apr 10, 2011, at 12:27 PM, Adi Andrei wrote:

> I use a macbook pro with K3, it has been working flawlessly. I didn't see any need for grounding the mac.
>
> Adi
> 2E0TTX
>
> On 10/04/2011 19:31, Phil Townsend wrote:
>> Please don't ban me from this list.... because I have another stupid ground question.
>>
>> I have a nice 27 inch iMac. It's very fast and runs widows and lynx as well.
>> The USB port works very well will K3# 4636.
>> The K3 is grounded to my buss under the table as are the other stuff BUT
>> the iMac does not have a ground post or point. It does has a third wire into the AC outlet.
>>
>> The outer shell does not look like it's suitable to bond to...
>>
>> Does anyone have a rough idea how to go about applying a ground strap to a iMac.
>>
>> I WILL be safe this year!
>>
>> Phil
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

dj7mgq

Re: Yet another product idea

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

> Nice for pulsed or CW devices. How about specs for AB1 service
> including standing current and IMD? Standing current (bias) is

IMD could be better <http://www.qsl.net/f1jrd/800wR.JPG> at least on
144MHz.

Graph taken from <http://www.qsl.net/f1jrd/MRFE6VP61K25H.html>.

FWIW, Freescale claims that these devices are candidates for broadcast
applications.
<http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MRFE6VP61K25H>

vy 73 de tooby, DD5FZ

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