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USB to serial angst

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Mike Reublin

USB to serial angst

For those suffering from lack of a real serial port, something I found
today may interest you. PC's with a real serial port, and a parallel
port to boot (no pun intended). There are a couple of differently
equipped ones on the page. It has no OS installed, so you'll need one.

I ordered one. If you have a local store, call and they'll order it for
you. I have no connection to CompUSA.

http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5742468&CatId=2629

73, Mike NF4L

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Alan Bloom

Re: USB to serial angst

A lot of PCs that "don't have a serial port" actually do have the
electronics on the motherboard. If so, you can mount your own DB-9
connector on the rear panel and wire it to the motherboard.

The motherboard connector is often a 10-pin (two rows of 5 pins) header
with one pin removed to give a one-for-one correspondence to a 9-pin
RS-232 connector. If you can't find the COM ports in Windows, you might
have to check the "integrated peripherals" section of the BIOS to see if
the manufacturer has disabled serial ports in the BIOS.

It might be worth a look before going out and buying a serial PCI card
(or a new computer).

Al N1AL

On Fri, 2010-03-12 at 20:31 -0500, Mike wrote:

> For those suffering from lack of a real serial port, something I found
> today may interest you. PC's with a real serial port, and a parallel
> port to boot (no pun intended). There are a couple of differently
> equipped ones on the page. It has no OS installed, so you'll need one.
>
> I ordered one. If you have a local store, call and they'll order it for
> you. I have no connection to CompUSA.
>
> http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5742468&CatId=2629
>
> 73, Mike NF4L
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: USB to serial angst

Those looking for a computer with a real serial port may want to
consider the IBM (Leveno) off-lease computers that are often offered by
TigerDirect www.tigerdirect.com. Many (even most) come with 2 serial
ports and are usually loaded with WinXP Pro. There are likely other
vendors of these off-lease machines, but I know TigerDirect frequently
has them available. Search the website for IBM off lease. Most are in
the 2 to 3 GHz range and usually with a Pentium 4 CPU. They are
inexpensive enough that you may want to consider one for a dedicated
computer for the hamshack.

73,
Don W3FPR

Alan Bloom wrote:

> A lot of PCs that "don't have a serial port" actually do have the
> electronics on the motherboard. If so, you can mount your own DB-9
> connector on the rear panel and wire it to the motherboard.
>
> The motherboard connector is often a 10-pin (two rows of 5 pins) header
> with one pin removed to give a one-for-one correspondence to a 9-pin
> RS-232 connector. If you can't find the COM ports in Windows, you might
> have to check the "integrated peripherals" section of the BIOS to see if
> the manufacturer has disabled serial ports in the BIOS.
>
> It might be worth a look before going out and buying a serial PCI card
> (or a new computer).
>
> Al N1AL
>
>
> On Fri, 2010-03-12 at 20:31 -0500, Mike wrote:
>
>> For those suffering from lack of a real serial port, something I found
>> today may interest you. PC's with a real serial port, and a parallel
>> port to boot (no pun intended). There are a couple of differently
>> equipped ones on the page. It has no OS installed, so you'll need one.
>>
>> I ordered one. If you have a local store, call and they'll order it for
>> you. I have no connection to CompUSA.
>>
>> http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5742468&CatId=2629
>>
>> 73, Mike NF4L
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>>
>
>
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gdaught6

Re: USB to serial angst

Don wrote...

> Those looking for a computer with a real serial port may want to
> consider the IBM (Leveno) off-lease computers that are often offered by
> TigerDirect www.tigerdirect.com. Many (even most) come with 2 serial
> ports and are usually loaded with WinXP Pro. There are likely other
> vendors of these off-lease machines, but I know TigerDirect frequently
> has them available. Search the website for IBM off lease. Most are in
> the 2 to 3 GHz range and usually with a Pentium 4 CPU. They are
> inexpensive enough that you may want to consider one for a dedicated
> computer for the hamshack.

That's "Lenovo", and they still are making them. I just ordered one from
IBM/Lenovo.

73,

George T Daughters, K6GT
CU in the California QSO Party (CQP)
October 2-3, 2010

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Bob-270

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

You can skip the middleman and go right to the source:

http://www.ibm.com/products/specialoffers/us/en/icue.html

I've bought a couple and the ones I received were like new. Keep
watching the site as
inventory changes rapidly. Sometimes there are even % off sales.

73,
Bob
K2TK

On 3/12/2010 10:52 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Those looking for a computer with a real serial port may want to
> consider the IBM (Leveno) off-lease computers that are often offered by
> TigerDirect www.tigerdirect.com. Many (even most) come with 2 serial
> ports and are usually loaded with WinXP Pro. There are likely other
> vendors of these off-lease machines, but I know TigerDirect frequently
> has them available. Search the website for IBM off lease. Most are in
> the 2 to 3 GHz range and usually with a Pentium 4 CPU. They are
> inexpensive enough that you may want to consider one for a dedicated
> computer for the hamshack.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Alan Bloom wrote:
>
>

Eric Manning

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by Mike Reublin

All in favour of a USB port on the K3?

Then we could forget about un-necessary, expensive , flaky and
crash-prone USB to serial adapters.
THe serial port with its RS-232 interface is obsolete. It dates back to
the 70's if not earlier and was superseded by USB.

eric

VA7DZ

S/N 3640

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K6LMP

Re: USB to serial angst

Folks, I asked Elecraft about this before I bought my rig in January; they said it's "on the list" but not as easy to do as one might think. I figured they could just drop an FTDI chipset into the rig in place of the RS232 jack, but it seems that it's not all that simple.

Patience is a virtue.

Lew K6LMP

On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:08 AM, eric manning wrote:

> All in favour of a USB port on the K3?
>
> Then we could forget about un-necessary, expensive , flaky and
> crash-prone USB to serial adapters.
> THe serial port with its RS-232 interface is obsolete. It dates back to
> the 70's if not earlier and was superseded by USB.
>
> eric
>
> VA7DZ
>
> S/N 3640
>
> --
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N3PSJ-2

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by Eric Manning

No no no

Just add Ethernet.

On Mar 13, 2010, at 2:08 PM, eric manning <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> All in favour of a USB port on the K3?
>
> Then we could forget about un-necessary, expensive , flaky and
> crash-prone USB to serial adapters.
> THe serial port with its RS-232 interface is obsolete. It dates
> back to
> the 70's if not earlier and was superseded by USB.
>
> eric
>
> VA7DZ
>
> S/N 3640
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Ken Nicely (N3PSJ)

Joe Planisky

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by Eric Manning

Great idea as long as Elecraft provide and maintain drivers that work
with

Win2K
WinXP,
Vista/32 bit
Vista/64 bit
Win7/32 bit
Win7/64 bit
Mac OS X 10.5 PPC,
Mac OS X 10.5 Intel,
Mac OS X 10.6,
and the various versions of Linux (32 and 64 bit).

I'm all for it.

73
--
Joe KB8AP

On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:08 AM, eric manning wrote:

> All in favour of a USB port on the K3?
>
> ...
> eric
>
> VA7DZ

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Jim Dunstan

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by Eric Manning

At 11:08 AM 3/13/2010 -0800, you wrote:
>All in favour of a USB port on the K3?

For what purpose? If a USB port is provided for the sole purpose of
sending control data then there is little if any advantage over the RS232
port .... aside from the fact your computer may not include one. If the
radio is provided with a USB port then it should use the full potential and
include the provision of in/out AF streaming as well. It is possible to
use the USB port to both send and receive control data for CAT operation
and stream in/out AF. After all if we're talking about 'flaky' devices ...
the sound card provided by most computers is at the top of the list.

If they (radio manufacturer) were to implement such a USB port then
plugging it in would show up as a sound card in the computer. However, the
majority of radios don't do this ... and implementing a USB port on this
half ---- basis in no improvement.

>Then we could forget about un-necessary, expensive , flaky and
>crash-prone USB to serial adapters.
>THe serial port with its RS-232 interface is obsolete. It dates back to
>the 70's if not earlier and was superseded by USB.
>
>eric
By the way I have never paid more than about $20.00 for any RS232 card or
external adapter ... and never had a problem installing or using any of
them .... let alone "crashing". The whole PC basically dates to the 70's.
and it seems a miracle they can do what they do.

73
Jim, VE3CI

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Brett Howard

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by Joe Planisky

All one needs is a TI PCM2902 and a FTDI USB to RS232 chip and a little
support analogy bits and poof you can have all that. Heck I'd even bet
it could be put onto a board small enough you could fit it inside your
K3 and you'd also have full support for all of the OSes you wish!

~Brett

On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 11:39 -0800, Joe Planisky wrote:

> Great idea as long as Elecraft provide and maintain drivers that work
> with
>
> Win2K
> WinXP,
> Vista/32 bit
> Vista/64 bit
> Win7/32 bit
> Win7/64 bit
> Mac OS X 10.5 PPC,
> Mac OS X 10.5 Intel,
> Mac OS X 10.6,
> and the various versions of Linux (32 and 64 bit).
>
> I'm all for it.
>
> 73
> --
> Joe KB8AP
>
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:08 AM, eric manning wrote:
>
> > All in favour of a USB port on the K3?
> >
> > ...
> > eric
> >
> > VA7DZ
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Brett Howard

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by K6LMP

Actually its exactly that simple...

I'm not sure that people would consider that an improvement as the only
thing it does is move the USB to RS232 adapter into the radio rather
than an external adapter but I think if everyone was using FTDI adapters
there would be a lot fewer complaints about the adapters.

~Brett

On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 11:26 -0800, Lew Phelps K6LMP wrote:

> Folks, I asked Elecraft about this before I bought my rig in January; they said it's "on the list" but not as easy to do as one might think. I figured they could just drop an FTDI chipset into the rig in place of the RS232 jack, but it seems that it's not all that simple.
>
> Patience is a virtue.
>
> Lew K6LMP
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:08 AM, eric manning wrote:
>
> > All in favour of a USB port on the K3?
> >
> > Then we could forget about un-necessary, expensive , flaky and
> > crash-prone USB to serial adapters.
> > THe serial port with its RS-232 interface is obsolete. It dates back to
> > the 70's if not earlier and was superseded by USB.
> >
> > eric
> >
> > VA7DZ
> >
> > S/N 3640
> >
> > --
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> > believed to be clean.
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
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> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Re: USB to serial angst

The need to avoid the Prolific chip set may be fleeting and the problem may even be sorted out by now. The Prolific adapter worked just fine unless you were trying to use one of the loggers compiled in Visual Basic for Rig Control. I have seen some reports that a new Prolific driver released in December has solved the problem.
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ

________________________________
From: Brett Howard <[hidden email]>
To: Lew Phelps K6LMP <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 3:42:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] USB to serial angst

Actually its exactly that simple...

I'm not sure that people would consider that an improvement as the only
thing it does is move the USB to RS232 adapter into the radio rather
than an external adapter but I think if everyone was using FTDI adapters
there would be a lot fewer complaints about the adapters.

~Brett

On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 11:26 -0800, Lew Phelps K6LMP wrote:

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Mike Markowski-2

Re: USB to serial angst - linux?

On a related topic, can anyone recommend a multiport (4 or more)
usb-serial that works without issue on linux?

The kernel documentation for usb-serial is in the kernel tree at
Documentation/usb/usb-serial.txt with recommendations, but it's always
nice to hear first hand success stories.

Thanks!
Mike ab3ap

On 03/13/10 16:57, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
> The need to avoid the Prolific chip set may be fleeting and the
> problem may even be sorted out by now. The Prolific adapter worked
> just fine unless you were trying to use one of the loggers compiled
> in Visual Basic for Rig Control. I have seen some reports that a new
> Prolific driver released in December has solved the problem. Willis
> 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by Brett Howard

One can have the simple solution right now. Just get a USB to serial
adapter that has jackscrews on its serail end and permanently mount it
on the back of the K3 - cable over to a USB port on the computer and one
has that simple solution. Support for the proper device drivers is the
responsibility of the adapter manufacturer.

The "better" and more complex solution is to build a complete USB
interface inside the K3. When you connect it to a computer, it is
recognized as an Elecraft K3 (not as a com port as the adapter would do)
- then you load the driver(s) for your K3.

Here are a few problems starting with the applications that many hams
use. Those applications would have to be re-written to support the USB
K3, so it will be a while before your favorite logger, etc. adds that
product specific support as a USB device.
Elecraft would have to spend a lot of time and resources creating the
drivers for every conceivable OS that is in use (or limit the number of
OS versions that will work with the K3). And then when a particular OS
makes changes, spend a lot of time and effort doing regression testing
to be certain it still works. When a new OS comes out, Elecraft would
have to have new K3 drivers which support that new OS version (on the
day that the OS is available) - for now and forevermore - the
alternative is to declare the K3 as obsolete with respect to a computer
connection. Keeping the drivers current is the responsibility of the
device manufacturer unless the OS developer chooses to take over that
device control and integrate support for it in the OS. I just can't see
that happening for the K3 at Microsoft, Apple, Sun Microsystems, etc.

The RS-232 standard provides a lot of protection from that kind of chaos
for those devices that use a serial port. There are a lot of devices
that use the serial port, and will continue to do so for a good long
time, serial port communications is *not* obsolete. All a device has to
do is decide if it is a DTE or a DCE in its design - usually the
computer end is DCE.

So I say "sorry" to those who want to use a laptop computer with only
USB ports as the main hamshack computer. Why not dedicate a good
desktop computer to the ham station. Modern off-lease desktop computers
are available for as little as $150 loaded with WinXP Pro, many with 2
serial ports installed, and monitors are available for $99. So for a
$250 investment, you can have all your ham applications on a dedicated
computer. Add a router if you do not have a home network already and
you can run that hamstation computer (and the K3 connected to it) from
your laptop used anywhere in the world that you can obtain an internet
connection. Computers have become commodity items.

For my part, keep the serial interface, it will live long after USB is
gone - there are too many commercial devices that use it for support to
go away anytime soon.

73,
Don W3FPR

Brett Howard wrote:

> Actually its exactly that simple...
>
> I'm not sure that people would consider that an improvement as the only
> thing it does is move the USB to RS232 adapter into the radio rather
> than an external adapter but I think if everyone was using FTDI adapters
> there would be a lot fewer complaints about the adapters.
>
> ~Brett
>
> On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 11:26 -0800, Lew Phelps K6LMP wrote:
>
>> Folks, I asked Elecraft about this before I bought my rig in January; they said it's "on the list" but not as easy to do as one might think. I figured they could just drop an FTDI chipset into the rig in place of the RS232 jack, but it seems that it's not all that simple.
>>
>> Patience is a virtue.
>>
>

Eric Manning

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by Brett Howard

I was thinking it might fit onto the next mod of the I/O board...

Brett Howard wrote:

> All one needs is a TI PCM2902 and a FTDI USB to RS232 chip and a little
> support analogy bits and poof you can have all that. Heck I'd even bet
> it could be put onto a board small enough you could fit it inside your
> K3 and you'd also have full support for all of the OSes you wish!
>
> ~Brett
>
> On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 11:39 -0800, Joe Planisky wrote:
>
>> Great idea as long as Elecraft provide and maintain drivers that work
>> with
>>
>> Win2K
>> WinXP,
>> Vista/32 bit
>> Vista/64 bit
>> Win7/32 bit
>> Win7/64 bit
>> Mac OS X 10.5 PPC,
>> Mac OS X 10.5 Intel,
>> Mac OS X 10.6,
>> and the various versions of Linux (32 and 64 bit).
>>
>> I'm all for it.
>>
>> 73
>> --
>> Joe KB8AP
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:08 AM, eric manning wrote:
>>
>>
>>> All in favour of a USB port on the K3?
>>>
>>> ...
>>> eric
>>>
>>> VA7DZ
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
>
>

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Phil Kane-2

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by Cookie

On 3/13/2010 1:57 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:

> I have seen some reports that a new Prolific driver released in
> December has solved the problem.

If that is true, where does one find said driver? I have not
yet hooked up my K2 to MixW under Windows XP for frequency
logging and would appreciate any tips on how to do that. My
interface is a RigBlaster Plus fed from an existing Prolific
USB-to-serial multiport adapter.

-- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

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Dick Dievendorff

Re: USB to serial angst

The most recent Prolific driver is available from the Prolific web site.
There's a link to that site in K3 Utility Help, on the "TroubleShooting USB
to Serial Adapters" page. This page is also indexed with "device drivers"

I'm using that December driver during normal K3 Utility development. You
want the PL-2303 driver for the Elecraft KUSB.

http://www.prolific.com.tw/eng/downloads.asp?ID=31

73 de Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Kane
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 3:09 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] USB to serial angst

On 3/13/2010 1:57 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:

> I have seen some reports that a new Prolific driver released in
> December has solved the problem.

If that is true, where does one find said driver? I have not
yet hooked up my K2 to MixW under Windows XP for frequency
logging and would appreciate any tips on how to do that. My
interface is a RigBlaster Plus fed from an existing Prolific
USB-to-serial multiport adapter.

-- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

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Guy, K2AV

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by Cookie

The Prolific chip had real problems on Win 7 64 bit, but the BSOD and
other weirdness not seemingly related to the BSOD, have gone away with
the new drivers.

73, Guy.

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 4:57 PM, WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The need to avoid the Prolific chip set may be fleeting and the problem may even be sorted out by now. The Prolific adapter worked just fine unless you were trying to use one of the loggers compiled in Visual Basic for Rig Control. I have seen some reports that a new Prolific driver released in December has solved the problem.
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brett Howard <[hidden email]>
> To: Lew Phelps K6LMP <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 3:42:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] USB to serial angst
>
> Actually its exactly that simple...
>
> I'm not sure that people would consider that an improvement as the only
> thing it does is move the USB to RS232 adapter into the radio rather
> than an external adapter but I think if everyone was using FTDI adapters
> there would be a lot fewer complaints about the adapters.
>
> ~Brett
>
> On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 11:26 -0800, Lew Phelps K6LMP wrote:
>> Folks, I asked Elecraft about this before I bought my rig in January; they said it's "on the list" but not as easy to do as one might think. I figured they could just drop an FTDI chipset into the rig in place of the RS232 jack, but it seems that it's not all that simple.
>>
>> Patience is a virtue.
>>
>> Lew K6LMP
>>
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:08 AM, eric manning wrote:
>>
>> > All in favour of a USB port on the K3?
>> >
>> > Then we could forget about un-necessary, expensive , flaky and
>> > crash-prone USB to serial adapters.
>> > THe serial port with its RS-232 interface is obsolete. It dates back to
>> > the 70's if not earlier and was superseded by USB.
>> >
>> > eric
>> >
>> > VA7DZ
>> >
>> > S/N 3640
>> >
>> > --
>> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>> > believed to be clean.
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________________________
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>> >
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>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: USB to serial angst

In reply to this post by Joe Planisky

Plus Windows 3.1, 85, 98, SE and ME ... as well as MSDOS for those
still using CT for DOS.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joe Planisky
> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 2:40 PM
> To: eric manning
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] USB to serial angst
>
>
> Great idea as long as Elecraft provide and maintain drivers
> that work
> with
>
> Win2K
> WinXP,
> Vista/32 bit
> Vista/64 bit
> Win7/32 bit
> Win7/64 bit
> Mac OS X 10.5 PPC,
> Mac OS X 10.5 Intel,
> Mac OS X 10.6,
> and the various versions of Linux (32 and 64 bit).
>
> I'm all for it.
>
> 73
> --
> Joe KB8AP
>
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:08 AM, eric manning wrote:
>
> > All in favour of a USB port on the K3?
> >
> > ...
> > eric
> >
> > VA7DZ
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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